Are 15 Stam Hybrid gems acceptable for a Prot Pally or is mismatching mandatory?

Currently a 5,263gs Prot Pally on Lordaeron, roughly 3 weeks away from 2pT10 and replacing the remaining T9's with i245s, which would bring me up to just shy of 5,400. At the moment my gem loadout includes:

Helm: 32 Stam and 2% Armor Metagem, 10 All Stats Gem (12 Stam bonus)
Chest: 15 Stam/10 Defense and 30 Stam (9 Stam bonus)
Shoulders: 30 Stam (4 Dodge bonus)
Cloak: 15 Stam/10 Defense (6 Stam bonus)
Wrist: 15 Stam/10 Defense (6 Stam bonus)
Gloves: 15 Stam/10 Defense (6 Stam bonus)
Belt: 15 Stam/10 Str, 30 Stam, 51 Stam (9 Stam bonus)
Legs: 15 Stam/10 Str, 15 Stam/10 Defense, 51 Stam (12 Stam bonus)
Boots: 15 Stam/10 Defense, 51 Stam (9 Stam bonus)
Ring: 15 Stam/10 Defense (6 Stam bonus)

In total seems like I'm losing about 60 Stamina through matching my gem sockets with purple/green hybrids, or around 600-700HP. I still go for 15 Stam hybrids in all non-blue slots as Stamina is still a priority, but I mainly go for Sovereign Dreadstones because Strength converts into spellpower (which means more threat and more EHP on Sacred Shield) and more Block rating, and Defense scales with Ardent Defender (more HP if it triggers, basically more EHP in the bank). At present with self buffs only I get 40,800HP, before food or flasks, and roughly 43,000 with food and Stoneblood.

I'm currently Mining/JC but slowly working on acquiring enough materials to level Blacksmithing from 1-450, at which point I will drop Mining and go BS/JC to have more Strength for Ret off-spec. I use a 53/18 build that allows me to have Pursuit of Justice for 15 Run Speed and 50% Disarm, allowing me to get slightly more Stamina on Boots and Shield enchants.

My enchants, by the way:

Helm: 37 Stam, 20 Defense
Chest: 10 All Stats
Cloak: 225 Armor
Shoulders: 20 Dodge, 15 Defense
Bracers: 40 Stamina
Weapons: Mongoose on Rimefang's Claw, Blood Draining on Falric's Wrist-Chopper
Shield: 18 Stamina
Gloves: 2% Threat, 10 Parry
Legs: 55 Stamina, 22 Agility
Belt: Eternal Belt Buckle (51 Stam gem)
Boots: 22 Stamina

Is this approach acceptable for an aspiring ICC Tank, to sacrifice a little bit of raw HP for other stats and get some of it back through Socket bonuses, or is it absolutely must go 30 Stam in every slot except for what's needed for the Meta gem, no exceptions?

I think it only matters when you do halion hc to squueze stamina cause you barely survive with 0.5-2k hp sometimes. If you gonna sacrifice from stamina, at least go for expertise/hit but not any other stats. Def rating is really **** stat after you get crit immunity.

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Originally Posted by Bastardbottle

I think it only matters when you do halion hc to squueze stamina cause you barely survive with 0.5-2k hp sometimes. If you gonna sacrifice from stamina, at least go for expertise/hit but not any other stats. Def rating is really **** stat after you get crit immunity.

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So Vivid Eye of Zul and Guardian's Dreadstones then? I know 26 is the sweet spot for Expertise, but what do I need for Hit? I have 157 right now (4.79%).

Also, my armor is 32k with Devotion Aura.

It is important to reach hit cap (6% , or 5% if you are with Draenei) to never ever miss a taunt
Besides that, going for full stamina is almost always better, especially in Lorda since bosses hit extra heavy.

Some little improvements:

- The +10 stats gem on your head is very bad. DPS classes use this gem because it's their "least bad"" option to activate the meta-gem colors, but as a tank who uses an austere earthsiege diamond, you only need blues and ONE red to activate it, so you should probably simply use a purple gem somewhere to activate it, you'll overall gain a lot of stam from this.

- The shoulder enchant: you could use the enchant from stormwind pvp vendors which has resilience and stamina, it brings you more stats overall

- Weapon enchant: forget blood draining it does very little against massive boss swings. Mongoose is a good option, or a simple AP enchant if you're poor is fine too.

- Rest of enchants is ok

- Profs: JC is BiS so good choice. Blacksmithing is also a good prof, but if you're looking for "the best", engineering is better. The nitro boots will change your life as a tank, and the +885 armor enchant on gloves is massive.



For all the other gems you mentionned, and mostly green hybrid gems: They can be a good option if you are under defense cap, or under hitrating cap, but if you have reached those caps you're better off using pure stamina.
Extra hit and extra defense bring very little compared to extra survivability from pure stamina.

For extra aggro:
It is much much much simpler to simply use a strength libram when you have aggro issues, than to try to gem your way out of it. You'll be sacrificing some dodge, but dodge is not really a vital stat.
Most probably you'll be paired with a DK that has unbeatable aggro, so don't focus too much on that, you let the DK do the aggro job and you'll be taking it back with a taunt when needed.



As a general rule of thumb for tanking on Lordaeron: you want to make yourself as tanky as possible first, and experiment later when you have better gear.
That means the stats you should be aiming for primarily are:

defense until cap (540 or 537 if you use this resilience shoudler enchant ) > hit rating until cap > max HP / Max armor >>>>> dodge > parry > block > aggro stats (STR/AGI)

for the expertise question: expertise isn't really a tanking stat so try to avoid it in your normal gear. That being said, some bosses require extra high expertise to not get blown up, so stock up some pices for when the day comes, because when you'll tank Sindra or Halion, you'll need to reach 56 expertise

Another thing I see some tanks missing is that extra armor makes a world of difference, so you should 99% of time using the pieces with extra armor on them. example: t10 chest and gloves have extra armor, the legs "Pillars of might" have extra armor, the 245 ring sold by the EoT vendor has extra armor on it too etc. Those are your best starter pieces as a beginner tank because it really lets you pucn above your weight.

source: played prot pal on lorda over most of the content

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Originally Posted by Loadsamoney

So Vivid Eye of Zul and Guardian's Dreadstones then? I know 26 is the sweet spot for Expertise, but what do I need for Hit? I have 157 right now (4.79%).

Also, my armor is 32k with Devotion Aura.

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26 is the sweet spot for a DPS hitting from behind a boss.
To not get parried from the front, you'll need 56

for armor: the "goal" is 45k buffed (49500 with pot active). more armor = better, simple as that. You won't reach those numbers in starting ICC gear though, so don't panic.


for more details see my first post

The difference is so small you're unlikely to ever notice it. 99.9% of the time as tank dies it's either a failed CD or a healer screwing up, not your choice of gems.

As long as you're not intentionally gimping yourself going for hit/expertise softcaps is entirely viable. 26 Expertise and 8% Hit won't cost you so much stamina that it's really going to matter.
I even had multiple people tell me their ocd kicked in if they didn't go for matches sockets once a random raider asked them. It never made a difference in actual gameplay for the rest of the raid that they did.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zeaconn

It is important to reach hit cap (6% , or 5% if you are with Draenei) to never ever miss a taunt
Besides that, going for full stamina is almost always better, especially in Lorda since bosses hit extra heavy.

Some little improvements:

- The +10 stats gem on your head is very bad. DPS classes use this gem because it's their "least bad"" option to activate the meta-gem colors, but as a tank who uses an austere earthsiege diamond, you only need blues and ONE red to activate it, so you should probably simply use a purple gem somewhere to activate it, you'll overall gain a lot of stam from this.

- The shoulder enchant: you could use the enchant from stormwind pvp vendors which has resilience and stamina, it brings you more stats overall

- Weapon enchant: forget blood draining it does very little against massive boss swings. Mongoose is a good option, or a simple AP enchant if you're poor is fine too.

- Rest of enchants is ok

- Profs: JC is BiS so good choice. Blacksmithing is also a good prof, but if you're looking for "the best", engineering is better. The nitro boots will change your life as a tank, and the +885 armor enchant on gloves is massive.



For all the other gems you mentionned, and mostly green hybrid gems: They can be a good option if you are under defense cap, or under hitrating cap, but if you have reached those caps you're better off using pure stamina.
Extra hit and extra defense bring very little compared to extra survivability from pure stamina.

For extra aggro:
It is much much much simpler to simply use a strength libram when you have aggro issues, than to try to gem your way out of it. You'll be sacrificing some dodge, but dodge is not really a vital stat.
Most probably you'll be paired with a DK that has unbeatable aggro, so don't focus too much on that, you let the DK do the aggro job and you'll be taking it back with a taunt when needed.



As a general rule of thumb for tanking on Lordaeron: you want to make yourself as tanky as possible first, and experiment later when you have better gear.
That means the stats you should be aiming for primarily are:

defense until cap (540 or 537 if you use this resilience shoudler enchant ) > hit rating until cap > max HP / Max armor >>>>> dodge > parry > block > aggro stats (STR/AGI)

for the expertise question: expertise isn't really a tanking stat so try to avoid it in your normal gear. That being said, some bosses require extra high expertise to not get blown up, so stock up some pices for when the day comes, because when you'll tank Sindra or Halion, you'll need to reach 56 expertise

Another thing I see some tanks missing is that extra armor makes a world of difference, so you should 99% of time using the pieces with extra armor on them. example: t10 chest and gloves have extra armor, the legs "Pillars of might" have extra armor, the 245 ring sold by the EoT vendor has extra armor on it too etc. Those are your best starter pieces as a beginner tank because it really lets you pucn above your weight.

source: played prot pal on lorda over most of the content

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I've decided against Engi on this toon for the sake of avoiding Profession Redundancy; I don't want each character to use the same professions. I'm leveling an Ele/Resto Tauren Shaman at the moment who is Herb/Alchemy and will eventually drop Herb for Enchanting, but I plan to make a second Orc Shaman at some point who will purely be melee dps, Enhance/Spellhance, and he's the one that will have Engineering for the grenades to fill gaps in cooldowns (likely with Leatherworking as the second).

I'm Horde, no Stormwind, so where can I get the Stam/Resilience enchant for the Shoulders?

Weapon Enchant I actually saw someone using Crusader on a Bonebreaker Scepter. Does that give the full 100 Strength at Level 80 or was that guy just an *****? I was considering Mighty Spellpower since the 63 SP means more Holy threat and slightly stronger Sacred Shields.

My individual gear pieces at the moment:

T9 Tank Helm, Chest, Gloves, Shoulders
Pillars of Might
Boots of Kingly Upheaval
Verdigris Chain Belt
Sentinel's Winter Cloak
Saronite Swordbreakers
Rimefang's Claw and Falric's Wrist-Chopper
Northern Barrier
Libram of Valiance
Fossilized Ammonite Choker
Harbinger Bone Band
Clutch of Fortification
The Black Heart (will eventually be replaced with Corroded Skeleton Key)
Glyph of Indomitability (would like Juggernaut's Vitality instead)

With no buffs I get 37kHP and 32k Armor, with self buffs, food, flask and potion I get around 43kHP and about 36,500 Armor.

I use Flask of Stoneblood, Indestructible Potions and Dragonfin Filet, but I will start keeping Fish Feasts on hand as well as I am 450 Cooking.

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Originally Posted by Blind

The difference is so small you're unlikely to ever notice it. 99.9% of the time as tank dies it's either a failed CD or a healer screwing up, not your choice of gems.

As long as you're not intentionally gimping yourself going for hit/expertise softcaps is entirely viable. 26 Expertise and 8% Hit won't cost you so much stamina that it's really going to matter.
I even had multiple people tell me their ocd kicked in if they didn't go for matches sockets once a random raider asked them. It never made a difference in actual gameplay for the rest of the raid that they did.

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What is Hit Cap for WotLK as a BElf Prot Pally, 263 or so?

You'll want 264 Hitrating to never miss an auto/melee special, yes. It's not too terrible to be below hitcap though.

And you can get the stam/resil enchant at the pvp vendors in orgrimmar. One of them (don't nail me down if it's the 3rd or 4th from the right) sells em for 10k honor a piece.

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Originally Posted by Blind

You'll want 264 Hitrating to never miss an auto/melee special, yes. It's not too terrible to be below hitcap though.

And you can get the stam/resil enchant at the pvp vendors in orgrimmar. One of them (don't nail me down if it's the 3rd or 4th from the right) sells em for 10k honor a piece.

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Alright, I'll check it out.

I don't know if it's required when hitcapped, but I also use Glyph of Righteous Defense, to ensure my taunts never fail. I'm contemplating dropping Glyph of SoV though for Glyph of HotR, as the 4th hammer combined with Seal of Command really helped with AoE threat when I was using it.

Other two glyphs, Divine Plea and Righteous Defense, would remain, unless RD isn't needed when hitcapped.

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Originally Posted by Loadsamoney

I'm Horde, no Stormwind, so where can I get the Stam/Resilience enchant for the Shoulders?

Weapon Enchant I actually saw someone using Crusader on a Bonebreaker Scepter. Does that give the full 100 Strength at Level 80 or was that guy just an *****? I was considering Mighty Spellpower since the 63 SP means more Holy threat and slightly stronger Sacred Shields.

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I haven't played horde in years but I suppose you'll find it somewhere in Orgri, inspect tanks running AH and you should see someone wearing the enchant pretty quick to ask him
that's the one https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/item=4...-the-gladiator

I don't know about weapon enchants except that mongoose is the most popular one. I suspect they don't make a big differnece tbh, so feel free to experiment.

The gear list and stats for your gearscore look good

Crusader is cool but proc rate is low, I prefer mongoose

Hit cap is between 6 & 8 %
Any lower than 6 and you might miss taunt
Any higher than 8 is kinda wasted

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Originally Posted by Zeaconn

Crusader is cool but proc rate is low, I prefer mongoose

Hit cap is between 6 & 8 %
Any lower than 6 and you might miss taunt
Any higher than 8 is kinda wasted

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But does Crusader actually confer the full 100 Strength at Level 80 or is it gimped?

What's the exact % of Hit needed to guarantee Taunts succeed against Level 83 Raid bosses? I've heard the magic number is 17, which would be 9% + the Righteous Defense Glyph.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Loadsamoney

What's the exact % of Hit needed to guarantee Taunts succeed against Level 83 Raid bosses? I've heard the magic number is 17, which would be 9% + the Righteous Defense Glyph.

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It's 17% Spellhit, which means you need ~236 Hitrating with Glyph. Basically when you're hitcapped for regular abilities you'll be hitcapped for taunts/spells as well - no reason to not go the extra ~30 rating when you're going for caps anyway.

17 - 8 (glyph) - 3 (faerie fire/misery) = 6

Idk if Crusader gives 100 strength, but i would assume so since other older enchants also give their normal amount