Arms POV of some T5 Fight

I found that most of the people have low requirement and expectation of arms warrior dps.
Therefore I collect some of the normal fight and average for how much an arms should do.
Of course, Arms provide buffs to all melee damager, but it shouldn't be ~400 less than what a fury can.

While watching, just ignore my UI, it's still under construct as I don't like preset Addon.



The Lurker Below (Dps: 1350, optimal should be 1450, for fury this should be around 1650, as I cannot optimize slam during movement but fury don't have problem for it)

Hydross the Unstable (Dps: 1490, optimal should be 1550, for fury this should be around 1700-1800, as I get 50% damage debuff twice in fight)

Morogrim Tidewalker (Dps: 1910, optimal should be 2000, for fury this should be around 2400, as I mess up some of the rotation in fight, but Im lucky to get just one tomb)


Lady Vashj (Dps: 1350, optimal should be 1500, for fury this should be 1650, as I got target by static charge twice whenever I pop recklessness or other cooldown)


Astromancer Solarian (Dps: 1835, optimal should be 1950, for fury this should be around 2200, as I don't have the maximum usage of sweeping on priest)

Rage Winterchill (Dps: 1534)


I want to thanks for the melee setup for the raid that I can achieve higher dps.
Without it, I am not able to do decent damage from it.

Why do you click?

^It's WoW, not an actually difficult PvE game. You can use one finger and be at 99% efficiency for most everything.

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Originally Posted by Arakan211

^It's WoW, not an actually difficult PvE game. You can use one finger and be at 99% efficiency for most everything.

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That depends on what kind of performance you're looking to reach. But saying it's an easy PvE game is not a valid point for not playing optimally, if that's what you're getting at (I don't judge the OP btw). Clicking will never be as efficient as using keybinds, let alone using 1 finger. Only because you're not able to press multiple keys at the same time. And even if you would really tryhard having extremely high DPI allowing the cursor to move at the max speed between the actionkeys with least possible delay (when the cursor leaves the last pressed key and hitting the next), this would require a lot more effort resulting in less focus on mechanics as well as a higher fail rate over all keeping up optimal rotations. But yes, it would work but it'd be far from optimal or recommended.

This is true. I am still getting used to it. But for arms the decision between rotation is the most important thing. Every time you have to wait for the correct gcd to insert your other ability that cost gcd, eg. bs, dw. For me, it's always enough time for me as the normal free gcd occur every 12 second. But these clip come from early September, I do have bind most of the necessary one now.

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Originally Posted by Urmomdotcom

This is true. I am still getting used to it. But for arms the decision between rotation is the most important thing. Every time you have to wait for the correct gcd to insert your other ability that cost gcd, eg. bs, dw. For me, it's always enough time for me as the normal free gcd occur every 12 second. But these clip come from early September, I do have bind most of the necessary one now.

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Get yourself a MMO mouse like the Razer Naga or Logitech G600. It's so comfortable and effective to play with. All your keys are on a 3x4cm field or so. I use 1-8, Shift 1-8 and Ctrl 1-8 on all of my chars. The 7-9 keys are harder to reach and the 10-12 are almost useless. I can't play without it.

On the subject of clicking, it's not ideal but hell it's possible to play 100% effective in PVE while clicking, there just isn't enough complexity for it to be a problem, the GCD is like 1.5 seconds. I was told to keybind from the start though, clicking in WoW became so alien to me that having to re-learn click targetting in WOD/Legion was quite difficult. Because tab targetting new mechanics sucked so hard it actually became quite superior to click target in a lot of situations.

This thread should really be in the Warrior section though, and I have to say your predictions (projections?) of what dps you feel you should/could do are a bit silly, naturally if the situation favours you more then you do more dps regardless of class/spec.

Example being AOE fights like Morogrim, if you have stronger raid dps then the individual dps will be lower because you will have less cleave uptime as the adds die faster. And on single target, if your raids single target dps is strong then the fights will be shorter, meaning you will have more Bloodlust uptime, more haste pot uptime, more recklessness uptime etc etc relative to the duration of the fight, causing higher dps shown.

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Originally Posted by Warglaivesplz

Get yourself a MMO mouse like the Razer Naga or Logitech G600. It's so comfortable and effective to play with. All your keys are on a 3x4cm field or so. I use 1-8, Shift 1-8 and Ctrl 1-8 on all of my chars. The 7-9 keys are harder to reach and the 10-12 are almost useless. I can't play without it.

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You can easily reach 11-12 with the back of your thumb, I have those bound with cooldowns. A little bit of practice to get the muscle memory in place and you're good.

Great videos OP, thanks for sharing.

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Originally Posted by bigbazz

On the subject of clicking, it's not ideal but hell it's possible to play 100% effective in PVE while clicking, there just isn't enough complexity for it to be a problem, the GCD is like 1.5 seconds

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That is not true. Someone who clicks the buttons will never be as effective as someone with keybinds. The biggest issue is that you have to watch your bars all the time and miss what is happening around you.

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You can easily reach 11-12 with the back of your thumb, I have those bound with cooldowns. A little bit of practice to get the muscle memory in place and you're good.

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28 Buttons + F, G are enough for me.

Less hamstring and more overpower please

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Originally Posted by Warglaivesplz

That is not true. Someone who clicks the buttons will never be as effective as someone with keybinds. The biggest issue is that you have to watch your bars all the time and miss what is happening around you.



28 Buttons + F, G are enough for me.

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How is it not true, it doesn't matter if keybinding is more effective when the GCD removes the effectiveness. WoW has a very low skillcap to maintain rotations, all of the "skill" in game comes in the choices you make when it comes to planning ahead and reacting to situations, not in how you activate your abilities.

There is nothing about clicking in WoW that causes you to be limited in PVE in TBC, as an Arms Warrior playing 100% effectiveness with clicks a player would not perform worse than someone playing 100% effectiveness with keybinds, because the game just isn't that complex and doesn't require high APM. Hell and most classes are a lot less complex than Arms.

What you talk about with "watching bars" and missing what is going on around you is a matter of player awareness and skill, that isn't a problem for someone who is good with a mouse, it's not exactly high accuracy mouseplay that is needed.. Of course keybinding is superior, but someone could click in TBC and play at 100% effectiveness because the skillcap and APM requirements are both low..

Because of some reallife problem, needed to delete those video and switch it to dummy account later.

Not sure I agree, I suppose if you can stand completely still the mouse would work but how would I move in a nice way without the mouse? I suppose someone who is used to click can make it worth but I can't imagine how lol. On the topic, I did play with someone in Guild Wars 2 during my time there who were clickplaying, raid leading with Backspace (iirc) as push to talk and performing at a very high level (I'm very picky with this and normally I'd judge someone holding me back by doing this). To this day I am impressed with what she did there and I guess I'll never find out how she made it work ^^.

Another reason I hate clicking in WoW btw is the small cursor delay, having "Hardware Cursor" off. If enabled, the mouse will bug out and "teleport" to the middle of the screen... some Windows (10(/7 maybe)) bug. So there's this small little delay on it making it a bit less accurate. I'd kill for a proper fix (no weird registry stuff enabling other side-effects..) :D

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Originally Posted by Lulleh

Not sure I agree, I suppose if you can stand completely still the mouse would work but how would I move in a nice way without the mouse? I suppose someone who is used to click can make it worth but I can't imagine how lol. On the topic, I did play with someone in Guild Wars 2 during my time there who were clickplaying, raid leading with Backspace (iirc) as push to talk and performing at a very high level (I'm very picky with this and normally I'd judge someone holding me back by doing this). To this day I am impressed with what she did there and I guess I'll never find out how she made it work ^^.

Another reason I hate clicking in WoW btw is the small cursor delay, having "Hardware Cursor" off. If enabled, the mouse will bug out and "teleport" to the middle of the screen... some Windows (10(/7 maybe)) bug. So there's this small little delay on it making it a bit less accurate. I'd kill for a proper fix (no weird registry stuff enabling other side-effects..) :D

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That mouse bug sounds horrible, but yeah the only big advantage to keyboard binding is fast mouse turning without compromising your play (as it could while clicking), but it's pretty much never needed in a PVE environment, and is still doable certainly to the point where you can play around it with the GCD downtime.

Clicking isn't for me though, it's an alien concept after years of keybinding + Razer Naga, it's just when you look at WoW objectively and the PVE requirements, it's not hard to put 2 and 2 together and come up with an outcome that you can do everything that is needed of you while clicking. In PVP it's a different matter because constant fast mouse turning is a requirement to succeed.

There are certainly a thousand more important factors when it comes to ultimate performance, it boils down to the choices you make and how well you execute them, rather than how you go about engaging those choices. If WoW was more complex or faster paced it'd be a different matter.