Getting kicked from Dungeon for honest opinion and GM support that!

Hello everyone :), I want to talk about 1 of the dungeon experience that I had today!
So like everyone else, I join the dungeon and I find 3 people from the same guild me and another guy from different guild anyway after 30 seconds
BOOM wipe, I said hmm maybe we weren't prepared! I released flew back buffed everyone and the tank was not moving for almost 5 to 10 minutes not sure how much exactly! Then he starts walking we killed some adds. It was Great! This is going well, BOOM Feared wipe!
I say hmm ( unlucky we got feared and maybe that's why we wiped) keep on mind the healer and the tank wasn't on fear. Released flew back buffed everyone and then wait 10 more minutes for the tank to move his *** again! What do I do? I tell him gently ( Cmon bro move faster ) OMG and that what he did, he moved so fast that he pulled 20 mobs on us and of course WIPE again, we are not on the first boss yet guys! wait let me continue! Like usually i released and flew back buffed everyone and I start looking the recount to see what is going on! I find out that the healer sucks! It is okay to suck at a game and that's why I did not say anything. So buffed, ofcourse waited 10 minutes more until the tank prepares his mind and stays focus and than we go to the boss!
WIPE! no idea why, but the mister tank lost aggro. One more thing, remember that other guy that is not from their guild? he is a rogue! And the tank still lose aggro! 35 minutes already we did not kill any boss and I don't want to leave because I don't like leaving. I ask them nicely Guys please kick me because the healer needs to work on himself and the tank too, So please kick me, They say NO NO you leave if you want, I said Guys please do me a favor and kick me so I don't get 30 minutes CD, they say Shut the f*ck up and play the game! I was in my mind what game is that ?!!!!! I start to become angry because I did not say anything yet about how to suck he is and he told me back! So I tell him, you suck at healing bro! you are the worst healer, I'm sorry to tell you! But I can't play like this and understand me! So please Kick me! and they say to each other ( WE WILL KICK HIM BEFORE THE LAST BOSS) I was ughhh I am already in, let me hang on more and try to do this dungeon with them so I ask for a Ress and one of them told me (Ask nicely) and I was in my head (OMG) so what I did is ( Please Ress me ) Guess what happened? They were on the last boss and they Kicked me after wasting 50 minutes in that f*king dungeon, So I am sad and angry at that moment! I recorded the conversation ofcourse and I updated it on youtube, opened a ticket, and gave the link to the game master! I was hoping they pay the price because I was hurt like how toxic this becoming to be.
What happened next? I see a message from a game master that name is (cairner or something not sure exactly ) telling
Greeting,
If I was there I would vote to kick you too!

And I was like HAHAHAHAHAHAH WTF IS THIS ****!
So I came here to tell you the story :) I hope you enjoyed it

NOTE: their GS was 3.5k just let you know :)
LINK YOUTUBE ON HOW I GOT KICK : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs2S_FtwirQ

Well they can agree to vote kick You, but they don't have to do it.

I kinda feel Your pain tho, the worst experience in dungeons while solo queing I always had when it matched me with 3-4 ppl from an guild. Needing 4x on item that just 1 guy need (impossible for You to get anything), afking for 10+ mins, trolling (cause dying in dungeon is SOOOO FUNNY), rejecting to communicate in english, slowing dungeon cause of constant chat spamming (their own language) all I can understand is "HAHAHAHAHAHA" every thrid message. Ofc everything bad that happens is Your fault and You may be vote kicked, called noob constantly etc

I am not sure what is your point exacty. There is no rule that state how fast/slow or serious people need to take dungeons runs. This guys seems like group of friends who chill together and are not in a hurry, you cant force them to play the way you like. You should have left the dungeon when you saw the way they act/play. Arguing with them and asking for a kick is something you should not do in general, especially asking for kick because you can get banned for that. Telling people they are bad and asking for kick seem pretty toxic in genera to be honest, its not surprising they kick you before the last boss, i usually do the same when there is ******* in the party. Also you said there was rogue in the group, but there is no rogue in the video. I guess that guy was smarter then you and left long ago instead of wasting his time. Next time just leave the party, you will same yourself time and trouble.

http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=65037
"Disrupting gameplay: Using minor exploits or poorly designed parts of game mechanics to noticably interfere with other players' gameplay. Examples of such are: Resetting NPCs while other players joust with them on Argent Tournament and joining RDF only to idle and refuse to leave on your own to avoid the debuff."

You're lucky you weren't banned.
You sound like an entitled ******* so I wholeheartedly support what the GM told you.

yes, you are right 100% I should leave and not wasted my time there

YOU DIED WITH DIVINE SHIELD UP. MAN seriously. On recount you aare not even there. I guess you are the one trolling ffs. And they cleared these ads with only you dead which means something. Asking for a kick is bannable on warmane, read the tos.... If you see a **** group just leave. Do some quests or a bg, or if you dont want this **** JOIN A GUILD. Now you will say there are no good guilds i cant find one. CREATE ONE. You are just like those guys spamming in icecrown to get inside icc in pugs and cursing when leaders prefer the 6k... Dont wait for things to end up in your platter, work for your enjoyment and question yourself because honestly you shouldnt have died there. So in my view I saw them doing nothing wrong combat-wise in that encounter so the rest of the **** you say are just fictional as i see it...

I had 0 ideas that asking for kick or asking to replace me would get ma banned!

It is a weird rule but it needs to be respected in the end.

thank you for telling me that info, I had no idea

I will play the devil's advocate for a bit. Before I continue, I would like to say that I don't support any kinds of toxicity online (be it in a game, a forum or whatever), nor OP's desire to be kicked, because the latter is rightfully a bannable offense. And I also think the person should have left the group from the very start and accepted the deserter debuff instead of wasting so much time, seeing that the premade group was slow.

However, I don't really agree with some people, that the premade tank shouldn't have gotten a punishment for the caused delay. For me, it classifies as Disrupting Gameplay. Here are the rules quoted by Thorbjorn:

Quote:

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http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=65037
"Disrupting gameplay: Using minor exploits or poorly designed parts of game mechanics to noticably interfere with other players' gameplay. Examples of such are: Resetting NPCs while other players joust with them on Argent Tournament and joining RDF only to idle and refuse to leave on your own to avoid the debuff."

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And I would like to bold the "only to idle" part. So, let me get this straight. It's a bannable offense, if a player afk-s for a couple of minutes before they rejoin their group and not inform others about it at start - if a dps does it, it mainly affects them - but a premade group idling "10 minutes" and delaying the run w/o informing the randoms what was going on is not considered to be "disrupting the gameplay"? In this regard I can understand OP's frustration and I honestly think he was right to complain. He should have added a full video of the entire rdf run to support his thesis. Yes, w/o it we can't really trust the truthfulness of his words, maybe he exaggerated some facts, in order to look more like a victim. Regardless, I wanted to point out the contradiction in the comments.

And regarding the kick at the end - I can't believe that the GM was so direct in his response and ppl are defending him. I truly believe, that the GM should have taken a more diplomatic approach and not add more fuel to the fire. Greedman45 doubts, that OP is a good player, and thinks this was the real reason for the kick (+ the toxicity). This might be true, that's why the GM should have gone with a different response. The most obvious is, that the evidence is not clear enough and in the shown video OP doesn't look that innocent as he claims. The GM could have stated, that there are no general rules regarding the kick mechanic, but OP's toxic behaviour was a valid reason to get him kicked.

Personally, I think a rule concerning the kick mechanic should be made. There a lot of forum posts where people complained to have been kicked from a premade group before the last boss, which made them saved for that instance for nothing and forced them to waste even more time in the rdf queue and in the next dungeon. And if the system put them in a saved dungeon again (due to the bug), this would have caused a greater disastrous experience. But, all of this is just my humble opinion.


@ Greedman45 - Maybe OP is not showing on the dps meter, because he could have selected the "show damage from the last fight" option or idunno.

First of all, I will start saying thank you Kavachut for your reply.
If you noticed in the video I recorded that I started recording after they said in the chat in the game ( We will kick him before the boss ) That's the reason why I start recording in the first place. That's why I don't have the full dungeon recorded and if I had I don't think the game master or anyone would watch a video for 50 minutes just to prove a point ( in my opinion ).
I admit my mistake when i was toxic and told the healer ( You are the worst healer ever ) , that was the only negative attitude by me and in my opinion again i don't think that is toxic, it is an honest opinion after 50 minute of wipes.
Like other people said that i should left that dungeon from the first 2x wipes and got the 30 minutes CD debuff but i did not leave and that's what happened.
What hurts me more is that GM response and everyone protecting him ( wich it is ok to protect )
Some people told me ( that i can search for a guild that does dungeons ) and many others things , well i am a guild master and i went to that dungeon to get the daily 2x emblem of valor and ofcourse i failed getting them because they kicked me on the last boss.
Now talking about attitude? I think the moment i asked for ress and they kept me there and insulted me in the end is enough toxic
not only that ( one of the player told me to ask nicely ) and thats what i did , i was positive and said ( Ress PLEASE ) and i received the kick thats tell the whole story.

Kovachut you said you may not believe my words if the tank was AFK after every adds/mobs , But if the tank in the first placed moved faster and did not AFK almost half of the dungeon , than i would not be mad or angry in the first place , but i lost my patient because of that.. i exploded on them in the last 2 minutes from 50 minutes :/

Thank you all , i learnd from my mistakes

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Originally Posted by Vilya

it matched me with 3-4 ppl from an guild. Needing 4x on item that just 1 guy need (impossible for You to get anything)

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That's ninja looting and it's bannable, report them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kovachut

I will play the devil's advocate for a bit. Before I continue, I would like to say that I don't support any kinds of toxicity online (be it in a game, a forum or whatever), nor OP's desire to be kicked, because the latter is rightfully a bannable offense. And I also think the person should have left the group from the very start and accepted the deserter debuff instead of wasting so much time, seeing that the premade group was slow.

However, I don't really agree with some people, that the premade tank shouldn't have gotten a punishment for the caused delay. For me, it classifies as Disrupting Gameplay. Here are the rules quoted by Thorbjorn:



And I would like to bold the "only to idle" part. So, let me get this straight. It's a bannable offense, if a player afk-s for a couple of minutes before they rejoin their group and not inform others about it at start - if a dps does it, it mainly affects them - but a premade group idling "10 minutes" and delaying the run w/o informing the randoms what was going on is not considered to be "disrupting the gameplay"? In this regard I can understand OP's frustration and I honestly think he was right to complain. He should have added a full video of the entire rdf run to support his thesis. Yes, w/o it we can't really trust the truthfulness of his words, maybe he exaggerated some facts, in order to look more like a victim. Regardless, I wanted to point out the contradiction in the comments.

And regarding the kick at the end - I can't believe that the GM was so direct in his response and ppl are defending him. I truly believe, that the GM should have taken a more diplomatic approach and not add more fuel to the fire. Greedman45 doubts, that OP is a good player, and thinks this was the real reason for the kick (+ the toxicity). This might be true, that's why the GM should have gone with a different response. The most obvious is, that the evidence is not clear enough and in the shown video OP doesn't look that innocent as he claims. The GM could have stated, that there are no general rules regarding the kick mechanic, but OP's toxic behaviour was a valid reason to get him kicked.

Personally, I think a rule concerning the kick mechanic should be made. There a lot of forum posts where people complained to have been kicked from a premade group before the last boss, which made them saved for that instance for nothing and forced them to waste even more time in the rdf queue and in the next dungeon. And if the system put them in a saved dungeon again (due to the bug), this would have caused a greater disastrous experience. But, all of this is just my humble opinion.


@ Greedman45 - Maybe OP is not showing on the dps meter, because he could have selected the "show damage from the last fight" option or idunno.

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Very detailed and patient examination of the case.

The only reason I said those things because:

A) The proof the op posted is insubstantial, he may have trolled or maybe not; just as they may have trolled, or maybe not. We dont know, and the video doesnt provide evidence.
B) The op really didnt use divine shield to save himself and yet called the rest of the group names, this gives me quite a clear picture of the type of player the op is, I have played a lot of wotlk and met many of his kind. Of course all of this is an assumption based on certain behaviors, but all the comment is made on assumptions since the lack of evidence is too impactful.
C) We have no idea how the ticket was really answered other than the op's statement which based on the above cant be taken seriously.

I rest my case, I hope he learns from his mistakes.

PS: I enjoyed reading through your reply. Like to see people bringing arguments around:)

Well, I mean, I believe you. I think it's logical to assume that this was the case, because a frustrated person, who didn't get aid for their issue, would normally come to the forums and seek it there. But, it's important to note that this isn't the right place due to two reasons. First and foremost, it's against the rules to complain about other people:

http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=301141

and, secondly, the most you can get from the users here are some soothing words and tips for the future. But you won't convince the staff to help you. The only way to seek their aid is either to write an in-game ticket, where you describe your issue and attach unedited, irrefutable evidence showing the offenders, or PM a GM here and to do the things I just said. I truly believe, that you were patient at start and only lost your patience at the end, but the video doesn't show that. It shows some really offensive attitude on your behalf:

Quote:

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nah I won't leave you peace of ****s
u kick or get lost
worst healer ever
hahahahahaha

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then others threatening you for kicking you before the last boss, then a threat to report them, then some insults, then you blame them for being toxic (contradiction here) and the request for a resurrection sounds more demanding than polite (and, no, one usage of the word "please" doesn't really sound convincing taking into consideration the previous conversation). So, when you send this video to the GM, how do you expect to convince them? How can you actually prove what had happened before this moment? So w/o efficient proof, it's understandable why the GM didn't want to help you. And I also think he was right to do so. The thing I don't agree with is that unprofessional response, which isn't all that helpful or informative /unless it's not a direct quote but rather a personal paraphrase/

Btw don't be afraid to post a 50-minute video. The person can always skip the unnecessary frames, when they have to, and you could always attach time-stamps to make their investigation easier.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vilya

Well they can agree to vote kick You, but they don't have to do it.

I kinda feel Your pain tho, the worst experience in dungeons while solo queing I always had when it matched me with 3-4 ppl from an guild. Needing 4x on item that just 1 guy need (impossible for You to get anything), afking for 10+ mins, trolling (cause dying in dungeon is SOOOO FUNNY), rejecting to communicate in english, slowing dungeon cause of constant chat spamming (their own language) all I can understand is "HAHAHAHAHAHA" every thrid message. Ofc everything bad that happens is Your fault and You may be vote kicked, called noob constantly etc

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Disktrasa

That's ninja looting and it's bannable, report them.

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^ Mhm, Disktrasa is right. That's ninja looting and it's bannable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greedman45

Very detailed and patient examination of the case.

The only reason I said those things because:

A) The proof the op posted is insubstantial, he may have trolled or maybe not; just as they may have trolled, or maybe not. We dont know, and the video doesnt provide evidence.
B) The op really didnt use divine shield to save himself and yet called the rest of the group names, this gives me quite a clear picture of the type of player the op is, I have played a lot of wotlk and met many of his kind. Of course all of this is an assumption based on certain behaviors, but all the comment is made on assumptions since the lack of evidence is too impactful.
C) We have no idea how the ticket was really answered other than the op's statement which based on the above cant be taken seriously.

I rest my case, I hope he learns from his mistakes.

PS: I enjoyed reading through your reply. Like to see people bringing arguments around:)

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I agree with everything you said. W/o enough evidence of who was right or wrong and with a heated conversation at hand, it's normal for someone not to trust OP's words and to make assumptions of his real acts. That's why I don't blame anyone, who doesn't trust him. Personally I'm inclined to do so to a certain extent, because OP's behaviour sounds logical. Immature, but logical regardless. I mean, if a person has a serious issue but doesn't get aid from the staff, where would they go then? Since I myself have been a witness of someone trolling in a raid, I know this behaviour exists and can catch you off-guard. That's why I decided to show OP some compassion regarding certain things. But, as you can see, I'm not defending him wholly. I also hope that he learns from his mistakes.

Btw, I don't know anything about ret paladins, so I didn't want to express my thoughts on OP's combat. That's why I said, that you were maybe right. And I'm not doubting you, but I have a question: Could it be the case, that divine shield went off cooldown by the time OP started recording the game? I'm not really trying to defend him in this regard, but it could also be a possibility. Or, at least, I hope so. :D As a guild master he should know when to use divine shields.

P.S.: Thanks for the kind words. It's always nice to have a decent conversation with someone.

1. You asked to be kicked from RDF which is a bannable offense, while at the same time you're verbally threatning with the banhammer on the others.
2. I can tell in the way you type that you are a highly passive aggressive and entitled person. You consistently gloat and ridicule them etc.
3. You do everything in your narcissistic power to gain sympathy, posting here, posting on the forum, contacting GM. It is quite clear tho that you are not so innocent as you might think you are. Everyone in the chat are being emotional and spiteful towards each others. Its a typical "wrong people meet each others" scenario. Theres absolutelty nothing sympathetic about you or anything particulary more vilifying about the others, you were all being a**holes towards each others, and you should have just moved on from this incident. No GM is going to waste their time on these kind of quarrels.
4. You are clearly the driving factor in the confrontation, instead of trying to de-escalate you start throwing insults and laughs. Taunting and mocking up until the point they threatened to kick you before last boss , at which you actually become more cooperative and listened to them, maybe because you suddenly realized they had a hook on you that you actually cared about.
5. You continue to have a hostile and abusive behaviour even at the very end of the dungeon, again you seem to make little effort in de-escalating, prefering to maximize hostility to the very end boss before the group disbands just to get the last word.
6. On your Original Post you try to sugar-coat your actions and make them seem agreeable and rational, that you were merely giving the healer fair critcism in an objective manner, while in the video you are doing it simply to provoke and be harrasive (calling him a piece of sh*t, to get lost, "worst healer ever hahaha".
7. You show trollish behaviour, trashtalking their ability to play while at the same time ignoring to pop critical CDs like Divine Shield to assist the situation, and you're being abusive when they dont do as you tell them. It is interesting that you are not on the damage meter either.
8. You come across as somewhat manipulative. On your forum post you highlight your own virtues and exaggerate their flaws. You begin filming the incident from a convenient time where they have recently made a threatning response, as you highligh this with your mouse cursor, with you yourself attempting to use a neutral language as the camera rolls. You use a positive and friendly atittude on your forum post, while in the game chat, once you scrolled up, we can clearly see you are very arrogant and abusive.
9. Even GM dismisssed you after seeing the video, and probably may have checked the complete chat logs and listened to others versions, and now you are literally being dragged out of the courtroom.

Even if you so happens to be the victim in this story, your video evidence was probably the worst possible way you could have pushed your claim, since this will be primarily what we will be looking at to make a judgement.