Greedy noobs on AH

Let me explain something to you noobs that post your 1-4 stacks of mats on the AH for an outrageous price. Instead of becoming insanely rich as you so obviously dream of, you instead create more competition for those mats for yourself. Because most people will pay reasonable prices for them but if they are astronomically expensive, then they will in turn make an alt to start farm those mats for themselves so they wont have to pay your outrageous prices. So in essence you are shooting yourself in the foot for a brief smaller profit than if you actually knew what the hell you were doing.
In order to make steady gold on the AH you need to farm a **** ton of those mats and other stuff and not price them so high to where people will still buy them. And then because it didnt cost you anything to get those mats besides time you will have a steady influx of gold. But when you are an inexperienced noob and see that you have something in your bags that you might could make a few gold and you post for an outrageous price and then wonder why people wont buy it. First you will most definitely get undercut and then as I stated earlier, you create competition for those mats for yourself. Then when you go to farm those mats again, you're like "why cant I find any?". Well you created the problem for yourself genius so now maybe you will learn a little from a veteran wow player and stop being a "noob".

They don't sound like noobs to me

TLDR; Summary

I think the people who sell 1 individual infinite dust, or 1 frostweave cloth, etc originally did it intentionally as a form of redirecting traffic to their main toons for profit as a way of countering/cutting out casual sellers. It was actually genius too because it incited real noobs to grief back to a point where the wealthy didn’t even need to do it anymore. At the same time most players get mad at ‘noobs’, exampled by OP, when really it is and always has been manipulation of the market by ‘vets’, who become richer as a result, draw none of the ire, then proceed to sell their gold for coins which is an even more valuable resource than gold. I think you misunderstand that ‘vets’ care about gold. ‘Vets’ care about coins, not about gold. Gold is extremely trivial to real ‘vets’. You may call yourself a ‘vet’ but if you care about gold, there are a lot of players I know who would find that as comedy.

Deeper analysis:

Noobs have never done this behavior as far as I can recall. Noobs actually generally sell stacks or inperfect stacks for undercut prices because they are afraid of being undercut themselves, don’t know the value of gold, or are trying to get gold as fast as possible because the only reason they are using the AH is to get immediate money to buy something they have their eyes on (in other words; not for profit).

Now as to why these a**holes put these small stacks for huge prices on the AH for low bids; they are probably ‘vets’ that are fed up with people undercutting their stacks and so to retaliate they flood the market with low bids so its very difficult/punishing to find the actual steal deals. In turn, they increase the viewing potential of their own full stacks by people searching the AH by searching opposite low price filter where the prices, you will find, are actually very stable outside of the 1-5 slots that will always be mega-outrageous at high bid.

In addition, some real noobs will get mad at these pages and pages of low bid, high buyout and then start doing it to troll back, but really they are just generating more traffic for the mega-farmers (who dominate the high bid pages), so much to a point where they don’t even need to waste time selling low bid/high buyout because the trollers and griefers, in their stupidity and rage, keep doing it.

Just take a moment and think about the profitable market audience. A relatively wealthy (5.8-6.3k in terms of gear, and stable 2-10k ‘dead’ gold), experienced player who is not hurting for cash will then usually reverse search the market, rather than farming their own mats, or searching through pages of fluff, because these players rarely farm their own mats anyway and that won’t change because they are generally not needing the gold for things outside of mats (ie;items), and find 1-2 pages of stable stack prices (monopolied by the actual wealthy mega-farmers) at the high end and give up looking for the bargain and just buy a full stack at a moderately inflated price. This population and class of players is what makes up the bulk of the Auction House economy. It is the class both the mega-farmers and the new, poor players are trying to exploit for money.

For example, 5 flasks of endless rage at 500 gold on page 1 or 2, vs page 7 where there is a random bargain of 5 flasks for 375 gold. Most players that even are interested in that part of the AH, saving 125g is very trivial to them. Especially when that gold is dead to them (there are no big cash upgrades on the market, epic flying is already owned, and they are not interested in trading for coins).

Furthermore, this behavior was not present in live where there were actually a huge number of noobs at that time and in all truth and honesty, this 5.8-6k population was in reality very small as opposed to the progress frozen Icecrown where it has become the majority population. So really, from my perspective, this is an evolution of the market by the mega-farmers to counter deflation competition whilst driving traffic for their profits.

And of course, you can draw political analogies to this mechanism. The main takeaway is that the target audience is the 5.8-6k gs players, they are the ones who will always bring in steady, consistent profits because that 125g difference is not anything for them to rage about and they have gold just waiting to be spent. You and anyone else concerned about selling or buying things for reasonable, buyer friendly AH, are then forced to just eat dirt or farm mats yourself and stay away from the AH or sell in global.

And I’m not even going to start on the warmane 50% gold cut, which does very little in helping the economy since supply and new players is what keeps the economy in check, not gold.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by derpieherp

Let me explain something to you noobs that post your 1-4 stacks of mats on the AH for an outrageous price. ....maybe you will learn a little from a veteran wow player and stop being a "noob".

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Veterans don't get bothered by such a thing that has always been there and always will be there.


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And about pages of stacks of 1, thats pure expression of market fully expanding within current system prameters. There will always be someone who thinks that's good idea - until he has to collect 10'000 expired mails. Maybe there are 2 people who have that kind of time, collect infalted number of mails and to concel their 1 copper bids and stuff. They do it until they realize they can make same/more gold with 1/10th of that effort. Worth the time in only few sections, like cut gems, pretty risky tough, can rub some "veteran" the wrong way:
And it's pretty easy to nuke that if you want, gem high deposit plus 5% of bid adds up real quick. Can't keep it up when they are bleeding 10k+ every day. I personally have nuked muiltiple people like that, best is when they don't have gold to cancel - get them for 70-80% market value, free gold, not that I did it for gold, just rubbed me the wrong way. Next smart guy pops up the next day, so it's like mowing grass.

I think the cut gem market is an outlier though, one of the few markets that is favourable for casual sellers since there is typically little interest in bulk-buying. Usually someone gets a piece or two from a raid and then will, in the interest of pricing, put the time in to search for the bargain.

Furthermore, the gem market is a very volatile market, with only a few profitable submarkets (reds primarily) especially across so many gem types that fluctuate in value or are worth very little.

Yeah, I mean ppl who set bid 1copper, 150+% buyout and post some 200 of each gem. So first few pages are their stuff. Can easily buy reagents above market value and make huge lumps. Unless someone throws a wrench in the works.

The worst kind of people are those who undercut 20 items for like 500-600 gold.

I was once selling leatherworking enchant for legs with 10 other people for like 600-599 gold. Then a smart guy comes and puts them for 200 gold which is not even the price to cover your expenses.

Lol don't try to quantify madness if you see undercuts at a 15% margin buy them out easy loot. If you can't afford to buy out an entire market and hold it for a few hours then you should probably farm or craft something else.

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Originally Posted by ipunchbabies

Lol don't try to quantify madness if you see undercuts at a 15% margin buy them out easy loot. If you can't afford to buy out an entire market and hold it for a few hours then you should probably farm or craft something else.

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This is only worth it if you are committed to that particular market and it is a very particular situation, and the value of the item is relatively secure outside of the occasional bulk undercutter like you mention.

I’ll give two examples why buying out a bulk undercutter is usually a bad move.

Example 1: Void Crystal Market (medium demand market, low supply)
The Void Crystal Market is a mid-level value market. The value of a Void Crystal is neither high nor low around 40g each; the supply is contributed to by a very minor amount of players, the demand is even lower (mostly sought after for level 70 twinks, and one or two other relevant profession recipes). If a seller suddenly places 5 void crystals at 33 gold (>15% undercut) and all other crystals are going for 40g, should you buy out their market?

Generally, No. Because the supply is pretty limited, void crystals are sought after as individuals or as packs (4-6). If you buy out the market with the motivation of making a profit, you are at most, hoping to make a profit of 35g total (but in reality less than this because of AH tax) selling these crystals at 40g value. However, this is not quick cash. In order to sell these 5 void crystals you will have to slowly insert them into the market over a week, depending on the sales. If you throw them all immediately onto the market at 40g value, it encourages other sellers to undercut because of supply sauration. However, if you undercut and say sell these crystals at 39g, you still pressure other sellers to undercut your value, because it appears that the value of a void crystal is dropping. In both cases, your usual 40g practice is weakened. So instead, what should you do with the undercut crystals? Hold onto them, promoting the idea that the market is pretty tight and strong at the value of 40g. This comes with the reality that other sellers will also benefit from your caution. But that is also market health.

Example 2: Primal Nether Market (low demand market, medium supply)

Primal Nether is inventory trash, with a close vendor value (it’s value to vendors is quite high @50s or 1g) and auction house trash. Noobs often put in on the market for the same or lower price as vendor would buy it becuase they assume because its blue and a material vendors won’t want it. That said, the supply is always quite small, primarily due to its nature as a Burning Crusade item. But the market, at a glance, looks good to enter into as a competitive seller. Why? Because, if you have even 50g, you stand to take over the market.

Except, that’s not what happens. The reality is, you can buy out the entire market for 15 gold and then the market is completely dry and you can set the price. You can set the price at anything, 40g, 4g, 2g. You need to make 15g to break even or make profit. However, the reality is, no matter what you try to do, the Primal Nether market always, over the span of half a day returns to 1g market value. This is because the demand is that low.

Example 3: High demand, high value markets

Obviously, if you magnify these examples and then also go into the high demand, high value markets, like lichbloom, primordial saronites, dragon eye, arctic furs, 15% is a lot, nearly 150 gold. However, in my experience, the profit to gain by competing with bulk undercutting at even 5+ pieces is very rarely worth it unless you are dedicated to the market and don’t expect to make profit for a week. But even then, who’s to say any undercutter won’t appear again and then what? You will feel the need to bulk buy again etc etc. Very rarely worth it imo. Especially with such giant auction house buyout taxes on this upper echelon of goods, that the profit you stand to make from even individual buyouts of undercutters, is in the 130g profit range. But these markets are also, quite volatile because they attract the most eyes and most eager new competitors

Factor is deposit costs too,

Void Crystals have 1 silver deposit per auction, no matter stack size. So people can easily ignore all the undercutting and sell them even above market value since time does not drain value each time it's reposted. Week or a month, there is still nice profit.

Primal Nethers are different story, with almost 1g deposit for 48hrs, if it expires even once people practically can't profit on it. Expires 3 times and cant even break even. So people HAVE to undercut or like most do - vendor that crap.

And high-high markets, there is the same thing too, damaged necklaces and dragon's eyes people can post months and years without losing gold, while primos have to be somewhat competitive, in a few 48hr expires all the possible profit is paid in deposits so people have to sort-of undercut or stay close to market value.

And great wisdom is - there will always be someone smarter, faster, better at AH. Someone will always undercut you. Undercutting game is not viable long term gold milking strategy, it's an opportunity thing, be it you buying undercutter out or doing undercutting.

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Originally Posted by Levvy

This is only worth it if you are committed to that particular market and it is a very particular situation, and the value of the item is relatively secure outside of the occasional bulk undercutter like you mention.

I’ll give two examples why buying out a bulk undercutter is usually a bad move.

Example 1: Void Crystal Market (medium demand market, low supply)
The Void Crystal Market is a mid-level value market. The value of a Void Crystal is neither high nor low around 40g each; the supply is contributed to by a very minor amount of players, the demand is even lower (mostly sought after for level 70 twinks, and one or two other relevant profession recipes). If a seller suddenly places 5 void crystals at 33 gold (>15% undercut) and all other crystals are going for 40g, should you buy out their market?

Generally, No. Because the supply is pretty limited, void crystals are sought after as individuals or as packs (4-6). If you buy out the market with the motivation of making a profit, you are at most, hoping to make a profit of 35g total (but in reality less than this because of AH tax) selling these crystals at 40g value. However, this is not quick cash. In order to sell these 5 void crystals you will have to slowly insert them into the market over a week, depending on the sales. If you throw them all immediately onto the market at 40g value, it encourages other sellers to undercut because of supply sauration. However, if you undercut and say sell these crystals at 39g, you still pressure other sellers to undercut your value, because it appears that the value of a void crystal is dropping. In both cases, your usual 40g practice is weakened. So instead, what should you do with the undercut crystals? Hold onto them, promoting the idea that the market is pretty tight and strong at the value of 40g. This comes with the reality that other sellers will also benefit from your caution. But that is also market health.

Example 2: Primal Nether Market (low demand market, medium supply)

Primal Nether is inventory trash, with a close vendor value (it’s value to vendors is quite high @50s or 1g) and auction house trash. Noobs often put in on the market for the same or lower price as vendor would buy it becuase they assume because its blue and a material vendors won’t want it. That said, the supply is always quite small, primarily due to its nature as a Burning Crusade item. But the market, at a glance, looks good to enter into as a competitive seller. Why? Because, if you have even 50g, you stand to take over the market.

Except, that’s not what happens. The reality is, you can buy out the entire market for 15 gold and then the market is completely dry and you can set the price. You can set the price at anything, 40g, 4g, 2g. You need to make 15g to break even or make profit. However, the reality is, no matter what you try to do, the Primal Nether market always, over the span of half a day returns to 1g market value. This is because the demand is that low.

Example 3: High demand, high value markets

Obviously, if you magnify these examples and then also go into the high demand, high value markets, like lichbloom, primordial saronites, dragon eye, arctic furs, 15% is a lot, nearly 150 gold. However, in my experience, the profit to gain by competing with bulk undercutting at even 5+ pieces is very rarely worth it unless you are dedicated to the market and don’t expect to make profit for a week. But even then, who’s to say any undercutter won’t appear again and then what? You will feel the need to bulk buy again etc etc. Very rarely worth it imo. Especially with such giant auction house buyout taxes on this upper echelon of goods, that the profit you stand to make from even individual buyouts of undercutters, is in the 130g profit range. But these markets are also, quite volatile because they attract the most eyes and most eager new competitors

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Your giving examples of a niche market. It's easy to buyout markets for hours just make sure you have your hand in multiple markets as to not get bored. I wouldn't undercut anything unless I'm trying to collapse a market then buy it out.the under cutters are why I can buy a war mammoth without hitting a single node so idk about how much they win but 130 g profit x 100 adds up if you multiply it.