Thoughts on bumping heroic dungeon keys down to honored early?

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Originally Posted by Swimmer1

Legit don't even know which side of the discussion you're on anymore. You go back and forth so much. I'm just saying you were advocate about not changing things because it's the way TBC was, but then you go and say you want custom stuff as well.

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I've already dropped arguing about resi gear and accepted it, if that's what you're asking about. That was more than a month ago so I have forfeited on my demands for that, understanding Warmane's point of view (which is that resi sets are P2W, as you said). Regarding profession rates, I've said it multiple times - it makes no sense for Outland to have 5x XP rates but 1x prof rates. Now, you would say "but the same goes for reputation" and I would answer "yes, but that's something that directly affects max-level gameplay - profession rates do not". Something that would affect max-level gameplay regarding professions would be increasing the node spawn rate, for example, which is something I am against. We all saw how Saronite became worthless on old Ragnaros due to it being overly abundant, with players being able to farm it in the hundreds.

Right now, I am an advocate for max-level gameplay remaining as Blizzlike as possible. Or if Warmane are willing to go custom with one thing (like overtuning T5) then they should either continue with the rest of the content (MH downed on 1st day because going from overtuned KT to non-tuned MH in full T5 is like clearing Kara after SSC) or tune back on their previous changes.

In my first post, you can see that I'm not talking against key requirements. I am stating both sides of the discussion. It's up to Warmane to decide.

Also, I'm sorry for sounding like a hypocrite but I'm just not a man of extremities - if I want something in one direction, it doesn't mean that I approve everything in that direction. That's how Lordaeron became overtuned and constrained and lost its population, and that's how Icecrown became a cash shop - two completely different views, both brought to extremity. I hope you understand me now and I'm happy that we've been able to keep this civil. If it would make my point clearer, my opinion on server development almost matches that of actus93 on all points.

Ya'll really need to stop crying about overtuned/undertuned, there is no content right now that isen't killable with basically any raid setup.

The rep grind is just tedious at this point, especially for alts or someone who's trying to main swap.

I have 5 alts I would rather farm rep on all of them then to be stuck wiping in HCs whit clueless ppl.
cant u see that being able to enter instances doesent mean jack **** when u wont be able to kill anything becouse of clueless ppl making u wipe?

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Originally Posted by Voit9797

Ya'll really need to stop crying about overtuned/undertuned, there is no content right now that isen't killable with basically any raid setup.

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I think you have the wrong thread.

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Originally Posted by Nekta

I have 5 alts I would rather farm rep on all of them then to be stuck wiping in HCs whit clueless ppl.
cant u see that being able to enter instances doesent mean jack **** when u wont be able to kill anything becouse of clueless ppl making u wipe?

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The same clueless people are going to make it there anyway. This is a poor excuse.

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Originally Posted by Swimmer1

The same clueless people are going to make it there anyway. This is a poor excuse.

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His excuse is actually a perfectly valid argument. They won't, because they'll learn from experience. That's kind of the whole point of having requirements. It is expected that if a player has reached Revered, then he has done the appropriate dungeons several times and is familiar with them. On the other hand, you can get Honored without even touching a dungeon - only by questing.

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Originally Posted by taralej

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It is expected that if a player has reached Revered, then he has done the appropriate dungeons several times and is familiar with them. On the other hand, you can get Honored without even touching a dungeon - only by questing.

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jk, ethereum prison keys.

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Originally Posted by Selaya

jk, ethereum prison keys.

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that daily is not even in the game yet tho :D and won't be until 2.3 content

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Originally Posted by TheRoachCard

The comment about this is not helpful nor constructive.

On topic - I agree that as T6 is being released the key reputation should go down as I feel it makes the gear gap between content too large.

People won't do heroics on alts because T4 will eventually be dirt cheap - making people who do not donate in a predicament where they can't progress.

Revered is ALOT of reputation for people who do not play as regularly.

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A vast majority of players do not donate for items, so "everyone" wont buy T4 items because they are "dirt cheap". You will still be able to find T4 groups in world chat and newer guilds who will be recruiting to do T4 content.

Now for my response to OP: Even if the requirements for heroics is lowered to Honored most people wont be able to do heroics at the gear level they will have when they reach honored without being boosted by other people with good gear. But i do agree that more people would probably be inclined to stay on the server if they didnt have to grind untill revered - and i say this only because i know that a huge majority (probably 80-90%) of players registering to play on a private server are casuals.

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Originally Posted by Asce

A vast majority of players do not donate for items, so "everyone" wont buy T4 items because they are "dirt cheap". You will still be able to find T4 groups in world chat and newer guilds who will be recruiting to do T4 content.

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You also have one more thing to consider: T4 raids will remain relevant, even with T4 gear in the shop, because those raids are required for T5 attunement, which is required for T6 attunement. One of the good things about TBC (or bad, if you ask a casual player) is that there is no easy way in - you have to work for it.

Hmmmm dont know if its possible, I'll remember it like that on Feenix.

Would it be possible to reduce the reputation required for an alt, when one character on the account has already achieved revered?

@Reyzerokek
This sounds like a nice idea but if you start thinking about it is not that good of an idea. for example someone that has only ever DPSed and is revered on his DPS makes a tank and then he can enter HCs whit his tank but he has 0 tanking exp. i belive u can see the problem here

Also lets not forget that the reputation forces ppl to do normals in wich they will get gear.
If ppl are not forced to go normals they will try to join HCs but then they will not have done normals bevore so where do they get the gear to be able to be usefull in a HC.

@oxtee
Yea of course you are right. But I dont wanna completly remove the reputation needed. Just lower it, that you dont have to do reputation farm runs on mass.

Dont know if honred would be to low, since you can come near that pretty easy just with quests. It should be enough for most factions, I believe Cenarion Expedition is the only faction where you can come near honored with only quests. But a halfway reverted thing wouldnt work I think.

Every single main faction on TBC and WotLK is designed so that you can reach Honored by just quests. Just saying. There isn't a SINGLE time when I've played on a 1x realm that I didn't get all factions to Honored before hitting max level. Of course, you need to do selective questing for this to happen, like completely ignoring BEM and Nagrand, but after 12 years of WoW I've gotten used to this.

Lowering the requirement on Medivh earlier than intended would, thus, be disastrous. It would basically allow players to start doing HCs as soon as they hit 70. Now imagine a blue/green geared 70 that has never done SH, SHH, Steamvaults, SL, BM or all the Tempest Keep dungeons (since those dungeons are 68-70lvl and chances are little that they have done these before 70) joins your HC group. Yeah, nobody wants that.

I could vouch for either a rep increase or a key nerf for Outland. But I really really don't think it's a good idea for Medivh, unless they do it to draw players there (which is not a bad reason, actually).

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Originally Posted by taralej

Every single main faction on TBC and WotLK is designed so that you can reach Honored by just quests. Just saying. There isn't a SINGLE time when I've played on a 1x realm that I didn't get all factions to Honored before hitting max level. Of course, you need to do selective questing for this to happen, like completely ignoring BEM and Nagrand, but after 12 years of WoW I've gotten used to this.

Lowering the requirement on Medivh earlier than intended would, thus, be disastrous. It would basically allow players to start doing HCs as soon as they hit 70. Now imagine a blue/green geared 70 that has never done SH, SHH, Steamvaults, SL, BM or all the Tempest Keep dungeons (since those dungeons are 68-70lvl and chances are little that they have done these before 70) joins your HC group. Yeah, nobody wants that.

I could vouch for either a rep increase or a key nerf for Outland. But I really really don't think it's a good idea for Medivh, unless they do it to draw players there (which is not a bad reason, actually).

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You're right they could jump straight into heroics, but nobody is going to take them. Hell it's hard enough to find a group for NORMALS with **** gear, let alone Heroics.

My post was aimed at Outland. I'll let Medivh stay their 1x blizzlike hardcore server.

People on Icecrown do FoS/PoS with 1.5k GS, so I wouldn't be so sure. If it's possible, it will be done one way or another.