ICC 25 HC - DBS - required DPS?

hi, i play a shadow priest, unfortunately i still have an rdf trinket equipped and i make around 10-12k dps on DBS (adds being immune to disease/aoe and all that crap)
i've been in a few pugs with decent dps output (rarely), around 9-16k from the top 10 dds, maybe more from the top 1
they didn't even come close to bring down DBS 25 HC
of course it was pugs, they would fail following the tactics so DBS would start massive healing and become pretty much unkilable no matter how much dps we had
but even from the beginning, some players with addons could tell that we have already missed the timers
and even though i don't have the numbers, it felt like that to me as well - i remember that i could tell in the first minute that he doesn't seem to be going down fast enough (that's probably because im used to NM speed though)
so now i see raids looking for people for this fight and im not sure if i should join
what would be the sort of speak "minimum" dps requirement for this fight?

To kill it before enrage on 25HC you need some 5k dps, something around that.

As Angrylol said DPS isn't what's important on Saurfang, The boss fight has become a standard for measuring how much DPS your class can pull off though, you need healers who can deal with the marks, Tanks who taunt off eachother and DPS who dosent get hit by adds.

awesome, it's just great getting advice from experienced icc grinders, thanks
so, just 5k will do it then? and dps isn't important for a dps race fight
im learning so much here
so when can i join your raids where you down DBS 25 HC with "around 5k" dps? seriously though...

problem is that i know how to divide DBS hit points by the enrage timer and the number of damage dealers
(which btw even that wouldn't give us 5k... seriously, are we just throwing numbers off of our heads?)
but more importantly i know not to do that because DBS is going to heal during the fight...

in other words, i didn't think i had to explain this but i was asking for a realistic answer from people who have actually done the fight or at least people not trying to be smartasses, ok, thanks

Alright so DBS HC has 43,930,000 HP with an enrage timer of 6 minutes. Assuming a 2 tanks - 5 healers - 18 comps and not counting the tank DPS, it means that the DPSes have to do around 6779 average DPS on Saurfang to kill him right on enrage. With heals from Rune of Blood you'll probably get something in the 7-8k range. This, of course, is only talking about pure DPS on Saurfang himself, not including adds, which means that it's probably closer to or over 8k in practice.

To note however is that in HC, Saurfang heals 20% when a player with Mark of the Fallen Champion dies, which often means a wipe. The adds are also much more hard-hitting (rdps or healer can be oneshotted) and slows people, which means that the raid has to focus them real fast.

In that sense, rather than actually having a higher 'hard minimum' DPS requirement, having higher raid DPS = less marks, translating to less potential **** ups on adds and less Marks which means an easier time for healers.

So it's really hard to pinpoint a minimum here because if your raid doesn't kill adds quickly enough having extra 1-2k DPS on everybody might not matter. Consistent DPS on Saurfang, fast switching and killing on adds, and managing/outhealing Marks are all equally important imo

I was merely pointing out that DPS is not the important part, and players invited to 25HC will have enough dps for sure. I was hoping your next step would be "deathbringer saurfang mechanics" in google or something.

What is important is:
Tanks swapping taunts so boss won't heal(boss puts debuff on tank)
Spread, all rangeds/heals make stacks of 2 players, was it 12 yard range?
DPS killing adds super fast, like 5 seconds fast. Stun them, slow them, kite them, because if adds hit anyone boss gains runic power
That runic power is used to put marks on players and it requires constant healing, if player with mark dies boss heals himself
Make sure you have dps cooldown for last 30%, maybe save BL for that too. Up to whatever tactics your raid uses.

What you need to do is read some boss spells and mechanics, what do you expect, just magically know this stuff? And I can tall you right now, you won't be able to kill it with 25 pugs where everyone is like you - doesn't know wth is going on, can't spend a bit time to research and learn what to do.

@angrylol
so first you tell us that you can kill 25 HC DBS with around 5k dps (in your imagination)
but you don't even bother to check DBS's hit points first because otherwise you would know that's impossible even if he was a ****ing training dummy
so naturally you get caught for trolling since i actually do know DBS's hit points and the mechanics of the fight
then Crystalleia breaks down the numbers in detail and shows again that your answer is so goddamn far off that not only you have no clue about the fight but that it's questionable if you have ever even been in ICC 25 HC
and after getting caught, you keep trolling by saying that this:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by angrylol

To kill it before enrage on 25HC you need some 5k dps, something around that.

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meant that "dps is not the important part" and it didn't mean "To kill it ... you need some 5k dps" which is what you actually wrote...

and finally... you are telling me that... wait for it... i need to research the fight mechanics because i don't know wth is going on...
you didn't even bother to check his hit points before you start lying
you had no clue that this boss is probably going to heal at some points during the fight especially with a pug
so next time you try to troll us, you 'd better do your research, but for now just quit it, that's enough

You are hopeless bro,
And with 5k dps its mathematically doable, because enrage timer is actually 8minutes, not really sure about that and it is completely irrelevant anyway, it was best I can do in my head. It was to make a point, take the hint.
If you know mechanics, why are you even asking, it's all clear to you, what went wrong an how it works?
I guess you are one of those who take advice as insult, sry for your penis, but no need to take it out on me.

You missed the whole point. DPS is a background thing. You being hung up on "DPS race" is what probably lead to wipes, cmon "beasts take low aoe, immune to diseases", it's clear you havn't been in proper raid, because you will do mind flays on beasts who go for rangeds to slow them, while your disease and stuff ticks on boss. Beasts should die in 3-5 seconds, there is no time for dot ticks it's a waste of mana.

Anyway, good luck.
Any one who know the fight know that it goes exactly as everyone who responded to you says it does.

The point was this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thesmotis

hi, i play a shadow priest, unfortunately i still have an rdf trinket equipped and i make around 10-12k dps on DBS (adds being immune to disease/aoe and all that crap)
so now i see raids looking for people for this fight and im not sure if i should join
what would be the sort of speak "minimum" dps requirement for this fight?

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You're fine, your DPS is fine, Don't worry about it.
I broke 10K dps at 5,5k Gs, Shadow priests does low damage at start, when you get more haste you will start to really do damage. If your under 7-8K DPS on saurfang you should not be let inside ICC, it just shows how little you know about your own class (some classes will ofc struggle, like Demo lock at 5,5k, there are exceptions but when you say only 10 people are above 10k dps thats a big nono.
This is the reason why leaders did DPS tests on the big adds before marrowgar, to get rid of all these trash players who has no idea how to play.

Anyway stop bickering about tiny details here and there, DPS isn't still what's important on DBS, but as probably everyone know PuG healers are godamn trash and can barerly handle 1 mark thats why everyone screams at DPS to do more, thats why they call it "DPS Race".

It's a bit late but if you're still wondering, the lowest dps at which I can find it is 172k for the whole raid. It was with 3 tanks (a 3rd one being warrior because we missed a 2nd boomie this time, to control the beasts). So while removing the dmg of the tanks we had 160k/18 (we run with 4 heals) = 8k9 dps per damage dealer.

As you said, the main problem is strat knowledge and coordination, I think the timers they reffered to were the bloodpower of DBS according to how many retpal you have for the DIs.

Also this was on Lordaeron so if you were asking about Icecrown I think you can have a lower dps. But yeah most important thing on this fight is the tanks reacting fast for taunts and the beasts getting killed before they touch anyone (think loads of controll, better to loose 6k dps cause your fury warr goes prot and stun the beasts than not). If you have this, as long as your tanks heals and also retpals (Hand of Sac) use def cd during high blood power or soft enrage, you will kill it.

@MadasMkII, ah yeah, thnx a lot for the reply, sorry i didn't see that earlier

i tried to check out some retail statistics just to get some reference numbers but for some reason the data doesn't match the dates listed
i don't know whats going on, i opened a 2010 report but later i realised it listed abilities that were added 2 expansions later, long after 2010

anyway, no matter
i had the chance to join a few full 25 HC pugs lately (i generally don't have the required gs for full 25 HC runs) and i have to agree
it's probably doable with 9k or maybe lower with better groups
but from what i've seen so far, the answer i would give to my own question would probably be that around 10k would be a reasonable dps minimum to ask for if you want to avoid problems pugging it
and that's what everyone should be able to be making at 6.2k gs anyway (which is usually what is required to get invited - i am 6k so it takes a bit of diplomacy)

i'd say that settling for lower than that would be risky for pugs because i joined two pve guild raids as a guest and although they did it at the end, it was a wipefest (they were boosting a couple of characters hence the lower dps - in the end they did it with lower than 10k)
so that is where i would personally set the bar for pugs where you don't know how high the high dpsers are going to land and how well the group will follow the tactics

so far i haven't seen any pugs succeeding without a discipline priest and protection warrior
i tried with a group that would insta-kill the beasts, they would spawn and disappear but we still couldn't do it without those classes
you are right about the blood power, i saw it too in that raid, it was going like crazy and i could tell it's a wipe from early on
so that's probably what the other guys were watching in my earliest attempts

anyway, i can make that dps, so now i don't worry about joining this fight, if it's a wipe i know my dps is not to blame

on the other hand i tried 25 HC PP and although i am that one guy who thinks that PP is the easiest and most fun fight in ICC (at least when you understand what you need to do), i must say that i felt undergeared for the 25 HC mode, my dps was hilariously low for the fight
to be fair, a lagging tank had caused a few wipes by that point and we were less than 25, and really underperforming dps-wise
but for now i've decided i will be skipping this fight no matter how well i know it and like it