Short answer: because math.
Investing in the poison talents is better than investing in Relentless Strikes. However, calculations have shown that a combination of the two poison talents is better.
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Short answer: because math.
Investing in the poison talents is better than investing in Relentless Strikes. However, calculations have shown that a combination of the two poison talents is better.
I see. Thank you for your answers, both of you!
4 points in Vile Poison and 1 point in Improved Poisons is simply the distribution of those last 5 talent points that appears to maximize single target DPS on paper. This has always been the case for 3.3 so it's not unique to this server.Quote:
Originally Posted by Submercive
This might seem like an intuitive thing to do but most of the time the 4 combo point thing on Evi/Rupture is going to be a loss.Quote:
Originally Posted by itsslevbrah
Oh, wow. I totally missed this last part. No, you don't finish at 4 because finishers have the highest ratios at 5. The realistically wasted DPS you're incurring is higher than the potential DPS you're not wasting, if that makes it clearer to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by itsslevbrah
Basically, you have a 50% chance to get an extra combo on your 50% crit rogue (for ease of calculations). This means 25% chance per SS for an extra combo. This means that in only 25% of the cases where you're at 4 CPs you will get an extra combo, wasting potential DPS, whereas otherwise you'll be finishing at 4 CP wasting realistic DPS. I hope I explained it better in this paragraph. I'm still hungover.
1. Has this been tested? I know that most rogues use 4/5 1/3 but isn't 5/5 better especially when you have a lot of hit rating?Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkenedHue
2. I just tested evisc with 4/5 combot pts with cancelling all my procs that give AP to try and keep it as balanced as possible and also rotations with 4 / 5. On average, each evisc with 5 pts will deal 2K more damage than a 4pt one , but if you're going for 5 pts rotation, keeping s&d and rupture up all the time is very, very hard.
However, I did not see SS glyph procs much, even with SS at 54% crit
Even at high hit rating levels that's still the case on spreadsheets. The difference between 4/5 1/3 and 5/5 0/3 is less than 0.1% of DPS so this is not something that you'd ever be able to empirically test for yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neixlol
After doin some Ironforge Dummy Runs this is what i found:
4 cp Eviscerate avrg crit = 11k
5 cp Eviscerate avrg crit = 13k
Buffs: Armor Penetration food to reach 1400 rating.
Debuff on the target: 4% Physical DMG increase, 20% Armor Reduction from Expose Armor.
Itemisation and talents: http://armory.warmane.com/character/...ecrown/summary
With this, i can say that going for 5 CP Evi while u are already on 4 CPs is a waste.
If we do 20 Sinister Strikes, lets say each one of them generats 1 Combo Point only, we will do 5x 4cp Evis and/or 4x 5cp Evis...
4x 13k = 52
5x 11k = 55
On this u can add some of the Lost Combo Points from that extra Sinister, and less combo points from Ruthlessness, and less procs from 4/5 duo to less Finishing Moves i guess.
Overall i think u shouldnt go for 5 CP Eviscerate if u alrdy sit on 4 CPs.
Please tell me if im wrong, and explain, if posible. :D
On Glyph of SS: As I explained above, going for 4CP Evi is sacrificing realistic DPS for the sake of not wasting potential DPS. Don't do it, just use 5CP Evi.
On the poison talents: They have been tested by EJ years ago, where my guide was first sourced from.
Also, what the ****'s a ***** gotta do to have working links from Warmane's database, jesus ****ing christ... Am I supposed to change all 50 of my links every week after Warmane breaks something?
I still dont see, nor understand how is pushing from 4 to 5 CP Evis better, when 4 CPs do more DMG on the long run and generates more CPs for even more Evis. But w/e...
On a side note, any of the Eviscerate speced Combat rogues should consider using Glyph of Expose Armor.
Evi glyph is pure RNG, and it can give u nothing in return, while Expose Armor will boost ur DMG by a lot and make u an ultimate raid Physical DMG buffer in combination with Savage Combat.
Glyphed Expose should be done using 1-5 CPs (pref 1-3 CPs, but sometimes u cant do much about it for the sake of SnD and EA uptime so ul do it with the use of 3+ CPs).
Before anyone says:
Fury should so sunders instead.
Il disagree... Why?
SA requires 5 stacks. EA requires 1 CP on the target. Easyer to do, easyer to track, especialy in 10m instances, switching target encounters, and/or targets that die faster than bosses (Ragings -on LK).
Neither do I. Your calculations/thoughts about this are totally right. The AP scaling of 5 CP Evi is just inferior to the amount of 4 CP Evis you can get out while not pushing for the 5th CP. Ruthlessness and the 4 set bonus should be taken into consideration here aswell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnimo
Devastate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnimo
Rofl i actualy had to think for a sec to realise what u wer talking about... Thats how often I see Warrior tanks in raids. (In case u didnt get it, I dont see them almost at all)Quote:
Originally Posted by taralej
What is Inscription? What is a stack of Glyphs? :D
You have a 50% chance to get an extra CP on your 50% chance to crit SS. This means an average of 25% per SS. This only applies if you get 4 CP, which only happens if you get a Ruthlessness proc, a crit with GoSS proc and a non-proc, or two GoSS procs in a row. Either way, you're unlikely to get another GoSS proc again in the same cycle so just go for the 5CP. What's there to understand?Quote:
Originally Posted by maxiikiing
Conversations like this are the reason why Blizzard made CP stocking possible in later expansions.
Warriors are my other main class so I feel offended. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Gnimo
If i didnt use my warr to fast clear dungeons with 100% arp itemisation, i would probably have to google "Devastate". xDQuote:
Originally Posted by taralej
But yea, prot war spec is one of the few that makes both life and game easyer and fun when it comes to dungeons and pvp... not so much when u get one shotted by a boss. :D
In your comparison here, the energy saved on using 1 less Eviscerate will likely have resulted in an extra Sinister Strike's worth of damage, so there's that to consider.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnimo
The gist of it is that the aggregate damage per energy of whatever necessary Sinister Strikes + 5 CP finisher is higher than any other alternative, and also that this lead is high enough to overcome the advantage of more frequent Ruthlessness and 4p procs, as well as the occasional saved combo point from the glyph proc. The reasoning is similiar to why Sinister Strikes + 4 CP finisher are better than Sinister Strikes + 3 CP finisher. While the 3 CP finisher thing would get you more procs it's converting your energy to damage a lot less efficiently. That's why spreadsheets usually model 5 combo point finishers as your best option.
Besides, using Ruthlessness is in itself an inherent loss of sorts because of what you lose from not having Blood Spatter. To expand a little on the point about energy efficiency, a Rupture that's buffed by Blood Spatter is going to be your highest damage per energy ability so long as your raid has the bleed debuff. So you miss out on that. Running the 4p at BiS atm is also kinda ****ed because being that the crit cap is about 4.8% lower than it should be, you usually wind up sitting a nasty amount above the Warmane crit cap, so for the time being the 2p is the BiS-er of the 2 choices because it converts all that crit that's half-wasted into a stat that's more helpful.