Combat PvP, Weapons choice, talent priority and general tips.

Yo guys, I want to try out Combat as well. However, information on the spec in regard of PvP is scarce af. What I need to understand better is this:

1. Weapons.

According to my understanding: The optimal weapon choice for human is: 2.6 MH Sword and 1.5 OH Sword + One more 2.6 sword in bag, macroed to equip when I want to Killing Spree for maximum damage output? Swords for the + expertise and the higher min damage on swing. Now do I go for Bloodvenom Blade, which has ARP and more AP, but higher gap between min and max dmg, or I get T2 Wrathful Gadiator's Longblade, that has good amount of stamina and resilence, but lack agility.

2. Spec.

So far, having read almost everything around the forums about Combat PvP, I made this spec;

https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#f0x...Rzf0fzh:0hGcmV

I'm wondering whether or not it's worth taking "Lightning Reflexes", but I think the steady 10% haste is good, also, "Pray on the Weak" seems RNG and might be wasted 5 points for long periods of time in almost any fight. Skipping riposte due to only 11% parry chance and melee attack speed slow seems meh to me. Combat potency - seems best place to put remaining 3 points in order to reach Killing Spree.



3. Spells. Rotation
I hear Eviscerate is bad and we should only use Expose Armor, Slice and Dice, Deadly Throw and Kidney Shot as finishers. Is this sitll the case? Cuz I've ignored "Improved Eviscerate", which could be good if this is a skill we should be using frequently.

4. Glyphs

What I think is good atm:

1. Sinister Strike
2. Sprint
3. Adrenaline Rush

What might be worth considering, but I don't have the played time to decide:

1. Glyph of Evasion
2. Glyph of Cloak of Shadows - Looks really good!
3. Glyph of Killing Spree ( Do fights often last long enough for this to be of value?)
4. Glyph of Eviscerate - do we even use this in PvP?
5. Glyph of Deadly Throw - Since we have a talent that makes it interruppt, is this a nice addition?
6. Glyph of Expose Armor - Not having to use it so often - any good? Saving up some CP for KShot or smth?

5. Trinkets

I have STS HC and DBW HC - Do I need ARP proc trinket (Mjolnir Runestone). I have other offparts with Arp as well but I think I’ll need atleast 1100 resil for SoloQ and serious PvP in general, meaning I’ll sit at around 60% arp imo with gems for resil.

Please, feel free to comment, criticise (ofc if you can back it up with experience) and help me out finding what's viable.

For combat PvP I think you should use the same Pve talent build because it will give you the most dps output. Specing into subltely as combat is just garbage in my opinion as you won't have enough points for anything.

Also for combat PVP i highly recommend going full 100% armor penetration (full pve build) instead of pvp one. With 100% armor penetration you gonna have easy time against most classes and you can kill even people with 1200+ resillence. I tested it myself on private server. Now I didn't test this in arenas, only 1v1. So in arenas this is less effective but still combat is not for pvp.

In full Pve build > your killing spree is going to deal huge damage, almost one shoting squishy targets like hunters and what so. Only problem with combat is that once you're done with your basic combo and high burst > you're vulnerable and got nothing else to do besides eviscerate spam +glyph which gives 10% more crit chance for it which is super good with 50+ crit cap.

Don't bother with assa/combat specs, they aren't so good in pvp. In open world they demolish people especially this combat thing but I just wouldn't play that unless you want some fun.

Also for weapons > If I'm correct axes should be your bis. Icc25 heroic lich king axe + icc25 heroic Gunship axe because of 1.8/1.4 speeds (if i'm correct).

2. Eviscerate is very good in terms of damage when you are in your full gear + 10% more crit chance as stated above. You will do a bit more damage than normal rupture build.

Glyph of cloak of shadows is indeed good as 40% less melee damage can be good against plates. Use it instead of spring glyph.
Deadly throw is something you're going to use against casters but going glyph for it is kinda useless?
Expose armor is not worth in my opinion. I'm not sure with 100% armor pen if expose armor +20% reduced armor would do any good for you. I'm not sure the effects would stack so largely to make some impact but I might be wrong.


I'm not an expert so I just shared my opinion. I really think you should just play 100% armor pen in pvp. With combat it's just doing main combo and then you're out for the most part.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Overloard99

For combat PvP I think you should use the same Pve talent build because it will give you the most dps output. Specing into subltely as combat is just garbage in my opinion as you won't have enough points for anything.

Also for combat PVP i highly recommend going full 100% armor penetration (full pve build) instead of pvp one. With 100% armor penetration you gonna have easy time against most classes and you can kill even people with 1200+ resillence. I tested it myself on private server. Now I didn't test this in arenas, only 1v1. So in arenas this is less effective but still combat is not for pvp.

In full Pve build > your killing spree is going to deal huge damage, almost one shoting squishy targets like hunters and what so. Only problem with combat is that once you're done with your basic combo and high burst > you're vulnerable and got nothing else to do besides eviscerate spam +glyph which gives 10% more crit chance for it which is super good with 50+ crit cap.

Don't bother with assa/combat specs, they aren't so good in pvp. In open world they demolish people especially this combat thing but I just wouldn't play that unless you want some fun.

Also for weapons > If I'm correct axes should be your bis. Icc25 heroic lich king axe + icc25 heroic Gunship axe because of 1.8/1.4 speeds (if i'm correct).

2. Eviscerate is very good in terms of damage when you are in your full gear + 10% more crit chance as stated above. You will do a bit more damage than normal rupture build.

Glyph of cloak of shadows is indeed good as 40% less melee damage can be good against plates. Use it instead of spring glyph.
Deadly throw is something you're going to use against casters but going glyph for it is kinda useless?
Expose armor is not worth in my opinion. I'm not sure with 100% armor pen if expose armor +20% reduced armor would do any good for you. I'm not sure the effects would stack so largely to make some impact but I might be wrong.


I'm not an expert so I just shared my opinion. I really think you should just play 100% armor pen in pvp. With combat it's just doing main combo and then you're out for the most part.

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Thank you. Even though you seem to be more of a PvE player as you mention Rupture and Eviscerate “builds” which is PvE thing. I’ve seen rogues play combat in PvP gear with decent amount of resilience and have success with it so that’s what I’m looking forward to. I believe there’s more to the spec than hit KS then get one-shot.

Thanks for your effort and contribution anyways!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Overloard99

For combat PvP I think you should use the same Pve talent build because it will give you the most dps output. Specing into subltely as combat is just garbage in my opinion as you won't have enough points for anything.

Also for combat PVP i highly recommend going full 100% armor penetration (full pve build) instead of pvp one. With 100% armor penetration you gonna have easy time against most classes and you can kill even people with 1200+ resillence. I tested it myself on private server. Now I didn't test this in arenas, only 1v1. So in arenas this is less effective but still combat is not for pvp.

In full Pve build > your killing spree is going to deal huge damage, almost one shoting squishy targets like hunters and what so. Only problem with combat is that once you're done with your basic combo and high burst > you're vulnerable and got nothing else to do besides eviscerate spam +glyph which gives 10% more crit chance for it which is super good with 50+ crit cap.

Don't bother with assa/combat specs, they aren't so good in pvp. In open world they demolish people especially this combat thing but I just wouldn't play that unless you want some fun.

Also for weapons > If I'm correct axes should be your bis. Icc25 heroic lich king axe + icc25 heroic Gunship axe because of 1.8/1.4 speeds (if i'm correct).

2. Eviscerate is very good in terms of damage when you are in your full gear + 10% more crit chance as stated above. You will do a bit more damage than normal rupture build.

Glyph of cloak of shadows is indeed good as 40% less melee damage can be good against plates. Use it instead of spring glyph.
Deadly throw is something you're going to use against casters but going glyph for it is kinda useless?
Expose armor is not worth in my opinion. I'm not sure with 100% armor pen if expose armor +20% reduced armor would do any good for you. I'm not sure the effects would stack so largely to make some impact but I might be wrong.


I'm not an expert so I just shared my opinion. I really think you should just play 100% armor pen in pvp. With combat it's just doing main combo and then you're out for the most part.

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1) As is the case with most pvp specs, the highest possible damage output is not what you're aiming for. Talents like Improved Kick/Improved Sprint/Throwing Specialization are a must while talents like Precision become utter garbage.

2) 100% armor pen = maybe 300-400 resilience? And probably around 20k hp. You're going to get squished and you won't kill anything that uses any sort of cooldown. Even a shaman with glyphed stoneskin totem can survive your killing spree and that's the worst cooldown that comes on top of my head right now. Please don't.

3) The idea behind this thread was for OP to get some insight on combat PvP. As in proper combat PvP, not ICC entrance shenanigans. I've seen plenty of rogues having fun with killing spree in PvE gear, killing some sholazar 77's that weren't expecting it, but you're the first person I've ever met thinking this is a legit pvp spec and gear setup. From LoD to glad in 1 day. Glyph of Eviscerate and crit cap in pvp? I won't comment on this, I'll let you take a nap and think about what you just wrote.

4) "Don't bother with assa/combat specs, they aren't so good in pvp" youtube.com >> Zaja I - Rank #1 Warlock/Rogue on Arena Tournament

5) Talking about eviscerate glyph and comparing rupture vs evisc spec in PvP is making me sad again. I refuse to comment on this one as well.


Lets keep the threads where people ask for help or an educated opinion somewhat on the subject. Saying "buT bRUh I cOm ouT of ICc and uSE kS, all die!" isn't going to help anybody looking for actual information about combat in PvP. Quite the opposite, people come in all shapes and forms and the dumber ones are going to actually believe what you're saying is true and a legit pvp spec. I'm already having a hard time dodging all the sheath+reckoning paladins in soloq, please don't add full pve rogues on that list.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sprotess

1) As is the case with most pvp specs, the highest possible damage output is not what you're aiming for. Talents like Improved Kick/Improved Sprint/Throwing Specialization are a must while talents like Precision become utter garbage.

2) 100% armor pen = maybe 300-400 resilience? And probably around 20k hp. You're going to get squished and you won't kill anything that uses any sort of cooldown. Even a shaman with glyphed stoneskin totem can survive your killing spree and that's the worst cooldown that comes on top of my head right now. Please don't.

3) The idea behind this thread was for OP to get some insight on combat PvP. As in proper combat PvP, not ICC entrance shenanigans. I've seen plenty of rogues having fun with killing spree in PvE gear, killing some sholazar 77's that weren't expecting it, but you're the first person I've ever met thinking this is a legit pvp spec and gear setup. From LoD to glad in 1 day. Glyph of Eviscerate and crit cap in pvp? I won't comment on this, I'll let you take a nap and think about what you just wrote.

4) "Don't bother with assa/combat specs, they aren't so good in pvp" youtube.com >> Zaja I - Rank #1 Warlock/Rogue on Arena Tournament

5) Talking about eviscerate glyph and comparing rupture vs evisc spec in PvP is making me sad again. I refuse to comment on this one as well.


Lets keep the threads where people ask for help or an educated opinion somewhat on the subject. Saying "buT bRUh I cOm ouT of ICc and uSE kS, all die!" isn't going to help anybody looking for actual information about combat in PvP. Quite the opposite, people come in all shapes and forms and the dumber ones are going to actually believe what you're saying is true and a legit pvp spec. I'm already having a hard time dodging all the sheath+reckoning paladins in soloq, please don't add full pve rogues on that list.

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Sir, hate to break it to you, but your reply was more of a roast for the other guy than helpful to me.

Peace.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hustlahbrodz

Sir, hate to break it to you, but your reply was more of a roast for the other guy than helpful to me.

Peace.

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Meh bro I don't care if someone wants to roast or not, I usually don't even read that stuff if it hasn't been explained good and just a startup ''sh*t bro you're bad''.

Anyway I played with my friend today who was combat rogue with 100% armor pen, he was almost full pve with 6355gs (Although there were few 2-3 items still missing Heroic from them) and let me tell you how he killed people with ease:

1. A ret paladin 36k health attacked him > my friend with one killing spree demolished him.
2. Rogue subltetly tried to kill my friend > my friend demolished him.
3. Ret paladin and resto shaman > my friend killed shaman faster than he could heal himself and proceed to kill paladin as well.
4. He one shot death knight tank
5. He almost one shot paladin tank with 52k health but he went away with bubble.


He killed even shadow priest pvp, all I can say is that even as Pve 100% armor pen, that spec is utterallly broken and pretty much killing spree is all work. I was low level that day so I couldn't help him in any way, he was doing solo those things.

Try combat with correct gear and enjoy eating people in open world (dunno how that will work in arena tho, this was only tested against full pve people as well as some pvp like ret paladin).

Edit: I know I'm not the best but at least I try to help.

This is world pvp shenanigans as you said, all of these guys you mentioned would've lived with 1k+ resilience and any defensive CD. Full PvE Combat is only relying on Killing Spree, which can be easily countered by anyone with a basic PvP knowledge and skill..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hustlahbrodz

This is world pvp shenanigans as you said, all of these guys you mentioned would've lived with 1k+ resilience and any defensive CD. Full PvE Combat is only relying on Killing Spree, which can be easily countered by anyone with a basic PvP knowledge and skill..

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Yes we all know it can be countered but don't forget that you still have energy rush and tons of damage with other abilities. It's not just killing spree. Combat is purely in open world fun like booty bay killing machine and such. For Arena > go subltetly. Not assassination or combat. It's not worth. Subltely has tons of utility that you gonna need + tons of combat points for free.

Fun specs don't generally mean that they can be played in Arena, but combat sure does have beating to other people in 1v1.
2v2 is just a hard cluster because you gotta kill healers first and they might heal everything you do. Especially paladins with their hand of protection uf. But then again if you have priest he can dispell it.

Idk mate, just go to the arena and try that spec and see how it goes. I never played it there because I simply don't have full pve gear nor pvp. I didn't farm it at all.

I suggest https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#fhZ...Rzx0fdh:NhqcmV

Differences:

1, Flat damage increase on eviscerate is better than Malice talent which is RNG
2. Since you're speccing Parry, might as well Riposte. It's cheap (10 energy).
3. Since your opponents will be trying to kite away from your damage + you're not Sub, can't shadowstep, I put 1 less point in Combat Potency, the energy return isn't that gamechanging, since we're not standing still and PVEing. I considered moving the 2 points into Prey on the Weak but I'm guessing you're trying to avoid the talent in your playstyle.
4. I removed points from Master of Deception because in 2v2, after Sap, let your partner set up and open - you got Killing Spree, you aren't afraid of other rogues, no need to waste time trying to search for them, just step up the kill on the opponent you can see. The only disadvantage here is vs double stealth (double rogue, or feral+rogue. Not often we see them.)
5. Since you're speccing Ghostly Strike, why not glyph it as well. The added damage and survivability is good.
6. Since you intend to wear PvP gear and last longer rather than play full PVE gear 100% ArP glasscannon style, why remove points in Elusiveness? Longer games against better opponents that require you to wait for your 2nd or 3rd Killing Spree benefit from lower CD on vanish, blind and cloak.

Yes, glyph of killing spree is worth it vs better opponents.
Yes, we do eviscerate. It's not bad. You'll be kited, which makes finishers like Slice and Dice and Expose Armor lose value, but it really depends on the situation. Don't avoid using eviscerate. You do need the damage it puts out. Other than that, only Kidney Shot is gamechanging/worth saving CPs for.
Yes, DBW HC + STS HC is good. If you have problems surviving, sometimes you can rely on Corroded Skeleton Key in double dps vs double dps.
Yes, wear PvP Gear, PvE ArP offparts, gem them with resilience. Kinda like Sub. You don't want to lose too much damage. Playing with a pro dispeller helps you to wear less resilience, so pray for good SoloQ team mates.

Hope I helped.

I have been playing pvp combat on molten and warmane for years and i can give you some tips. Weapon choice is arbitrary and most of them can be made to work, i even once had main-Fist/off fast sword for both H&S and CQC at once. It all depends if you are targeting specific group of classes or making more generalist build. I would definitly remove Improved Gauge in favour of precision. I also would also ditch 5/52/14 build(sneeky) for more direct 15/56/0 (https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#fhg...qMurrRt:0hGcmV). Also try using some pve items with high arp. Don't have prolonged fights and use your utility skills reactively, get engineering. Most importantly play alot and gank different classes to get the feel for fight with each class