Common mistake and misconception about Arms Warrior PVE

Let start by assuming everyone knows that the arms PVE rotation is simple as just:
(Repeat) Auto, Slam, MS, Auto, Slam, WW, Auto, Slam, MS, Auto, Slam, Free GCD (Repeat)

1. Slam should always be the top damage percentage
The first most common mistake did by most arms warrior is just they never follow the rotation
If you have a slam always follows after the auto, counting by critical multiplier, glancing and even ability calculation, there is no way that you can have auto damage higher than slam overall in fight.

2. DST is just the most horrible choice of trinket for Arms Warrior
If you find a DST in an Arms Warrior, unless he don't even have Bloodlust Brooch from BOJ vendor, you knows that he don't know how to play the spec. (Which I doubt you get DST before it.)

The above two points is the easiest fact that you can know if the guy know how to play Arms.

Basic Improvement:
1. Never overuse Heroic Strike, it is the most risky ability in the rotation but yield only a few gain.
2. Never reset auto timer after 0.5s with slam.
3. During fast swing speed, understand when slam should be used in the rotation. Don't just simply use Heroic Strike during lust.
4. The ability ratio of Slam-MS-WW, should always be 4-2-1. If your number is not close to it, you have done something wrong during your rotation.
5. Never use execute unless the boss die before the next auto, over 60 rage and your MS is on CD.

The DPS that Arms is able to do in some BT boss under T6 gear (Enhance, Retri, Rogue, Warrior, Warrior):

1. High Warlord Naj'entus (ONE BLOODLUST):
Record Run DPS: 2107 (https://legacyplayers.com/Raids/View...upl=3473&exp=1)
Typical Run DPS: 2022 (https://legacyplayers.com/Raids/View...?id=3079&exp=1)
Average Run DPS: 1850-2050

2. Teron Gorefiend (ONE BLOODLUST):
Record Run DPS: 2584 (https://legacyplayers.com/Raids/View...upl=3477&exp=1)
Typical Run DPS: 2379 (https://legacyplayers.com/Raids/View...?id=3215&exp=1)
Average Run DPS: 2150-2350

3. Mother Shahraz (TWO BLOODLUST):
Record Run DPS: 2125 (https://legacyplayers.com/Raids/View...upl=3486&exp=1)
Typical Run DPS: 1965 (https://legacyplayers.com/Raids/View...?id=2705&exp=1)
Average Run DPS: 1800-2000

3. Brutallus (TWO BLOODLUST):
First Run DPS: 2029 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=Vc9ZxFvnk9U)
Second Run DPS: 2210 (https://i.imgur.com/ElrHi2C.jpg ) (Playing Shadus Warrior in raid for some reason)
Should be around 2200, however I get burn and stayed defensive stance for 15s. Unlucky.

Those are the DPS that Arms should be capable of and aiming for.
Surely, the DPS while farming BT is not important.
However, the DPS requirement in Sunwell will be higher and many should prepare for it.

Nice write-up.

Pro tip on how to time Slam 100% perfectly if you have a keyboard with programmable keys. Program a key to repeat your Slam cast every [autoattack time] seconds. Actually have 4 (1 for normal autoattacks, 1 for auto with Frenzy proced, 1 for Bloodlust up, 1 for Frenzy + Bloodlust). This removes the error of human reaction time, since you'll never have to actually cast Slam. It will be cast every time right after your autoattack finished, resulting in a perfect Slam timing. All you'll need to do is toggle the buttons depending on which Haste buffs are active. You can simply spam Mortal Strike or Whirlwind once Slam starts casting and it'll go off immediately when autoswing is done. This is how I was consistently in the top 3 DPS with Arms on single target on some now dead server.

About Execute, it's possible that swapping to 2 fast 1 handers and spam Execute instead of normal rotation is better DPS. I had been playing around with this idea but I've never actually done the math on it. In theory I can see it being viable at higher gear levels though because Execute scales so well with Attack Power. I can imagine swapping the big 2H Sword for 2x Blade of Savagery and spamming Execute could do more DPS than normal Slam rotation but I should really do the maths on it, and at the moment I don't have the time sadly.

At what swing speed do you stop the slam rotation? 2.0? 2.6? Also what is your group/raid comp?

Enh shaman, feral druid, surv hunt in other group, bm hunts in your group? All of these greatly factor into dps.

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Originally Posted by poepinjehoofd

About Execute, it's possible that swapping to 2 fast 1 handers and spam Execute instead of normal rotation is better DPS. I had been playing around with this idea but I've never actually done the math on it. In theory I can see it being viable at higher gear levels though because Execute scales so well with Attack Power. I can imagine swapping the big 2H Sword for 2x Blade of Savagery and spamming Execute could do more DPS than normal Slam rotation but I should really do the maths on it, and at the moment I don't have the time sadly.

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Execute don't scale with Attack Power, and Execute is not used much in Arms spec, maybe only last 1-2 gcd in fight

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Originally Posted by Urmomdotcom

Execute don't scale with Attack Power, and Execute is not used much in Arms spec, maybe only last 1-2 gcd in fight

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Welp... you're completely right. Execute doesn't scale with AP. Might mean the inverse though, that Executing with 2 1Hs might be better than 2H Slam rotation at low gear levels. Execute does a very high base DPS by itself with fast weapons. Assuming that you don't have 2/2 Imp Execute and can use Execute every GCD, and 0 % crit + max hit, it's 617 DPS. I think the Slam rotation can't touch that kind of DPS in bad gear. But again I don't have the time to really calculate this through, I think there's a possibility that swapping weapons and using Execute is superior at certain gear levels though.

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Originally Posted by poepinjehoofd

Welp... you're completely right. Execute doesn't scale with AP. Might mean the inverse though, that Executing with 2 1Hs might be better than 2H Slam rotation at low gear levels. Execute does a very high base DPS by itself with fast weapons. Assuming that you don't have 2/2 Imp Execute and can use Execute every GCD, and 0 % crit + max hit, it's 617 DPS. I think the Slam rotation can't touch that kind of DPS in bad gear. But again I don't have the time to really calculate this through, I think there's a possibility that swapping weapons and using Execute is superior at certain gear levels though.

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Stop speaking of that without any calculation.
Tell me how do you have constant rage income with only 9% hit while duel wield for execute?
While I have 7/8 gcd using ability, are you sure that there is enough rage with the miss chance for execute every gcd?
Not even mention you need at least 50 rage for execute to do comparable damage to all other normal rotation ability.

bis trinkets besides shard/sapphire? our arms wanted Madness of betrayer but other classes freaked out at him

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Originally Posted by AvaNexecre

bis trinkets besides shard/sapphire? our arms wanted Madness of betrayer but other classes freaked out at him

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Sapphire for progression need.
For loot decision, I think it mostly depends on your guild's loot system.

Here's a gearing list if anyone needs; https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Ppba6tQJkkQ9M/

Also, I'd personally not use Solarian if you've got two "normal" trinkets but instead pre-shout with Solarian before pulling and swapping to a different trinket.

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Originally Posted by Lulleh

Here's a gearing list if anyone needs; https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Ppba6tQJkkQ9M/

Also, I'd personally not use Solarian if you've got two "normal" trinkets but instead pre-shout with Solarian before pulling and swapping to a different trinket.

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Oh I do Command Shout anyway Lulleh know lol

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Originally Posted by Urmomdotcom

Oh I do Command Shout anyway Lulleh know lol

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That's cos I have T2 too! :D

Who are you in game anyway? Besides, according to all values DST is better than Brooch, Tsunami. Haste proc is really good because it works like a mini bloodlust but doesn't **** up your rotation. If you claim something to be bad, can you back it up with any evidence? Why is it bad? Can't claim stuff without saying why it is that way...

Claiming anyone who use it a noob kinda makes you noob.

Also arms warrior playstyle varies a lot from person to person. Coming from a warr that has played end game on this server as arms.

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Originally Posted by AvaNexecre

bis trinkets besides shard/sapphire? our arms wanted Madness of betrayer but other classes freaked out at him

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why would anyone freak out at an arms warrior wanting Madness of betrayer?that is close to BIS for arms.

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Originally Posted by Urmomdotcom

Stop speaking of that without any calculation.
Tell me how do you have constant rage income with only 9% hit while duel wield for execute?
While I have 7/8 gcd using ability, are you sure that there is enough rage with the miss chance for execute every gcd?
Not even mention you need at least 50 rage for execute to do comparable damage to all other normal rotation ability.

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Look man can you even read? I'm saying that there is be a possibility. You're saying that it's IMPOSSIBLE. With that claim the burden of proof is on your side. I don't have the time to do the proper calculations, having a pretty demanding job and all that, all I'm saying is don't ignore the possibility. What you're completely forgetting in your dogma is that DW is going to do a fair bit more white DPS than 2H (assuming equal ilvl weapons), even without DW spec, simply because Slam will make your swing time = swing time + 0.5.
Slam with a Lionheart Champion for example is going to hit on average (non-crit) with 2.2k AP (we're assuming low gear levels) for 140 + 427 + 2200/14*3.6 = 1133. Every 3.63 seconds (assuming Flurry up) means a DPS of 312.
Mortal Strike on average non-crit 2.2k AP for 210 + 427 + 2200/14*3.3 = 1156. Every 6 seconds means a DPS of 193.
Whirlwind on average non-crit 2.2k AP for 427 + 2200/14*3.3 = 946. Every 10 seconds means a DPS of 95.

Add these up and 312 + 193 + 95 = 600, which is a bit less assuming than Execute assuming Execute every GCD. Sure, you won't be able to Execute every GCD, but your white damage is also going to hit a fair amount harder.

Assuming Flurry up and no glancing blows (since they affect both equally).
2H white DPS: (427 + 2200/14*3.6) / 3.63 = 274.
DW white DPS with 2x Spiteblade: ((237 + 2200/14*2.7) / 2.35 + (237 + 2200/14*2.7) / (2.35 * 2))*0.81 = 342.

That difference is pretty non trivial. Just using Spiteblade here because the stats are comparable (slightly worse) to Lionheart Executioner. You would of course be using 2 fast weapons.
Total DPS Slam: 874. Total DPS DW Execute: 342 + 617. Let's assume you can only Execute 9 out of 10 GCDs: 617*9/10 = 555. 555+342 = 897. Mind you I'm leaving out any additional damage from excess rage which you will have.

Yeah I know this is a very simplified calculation. What you need to keep in mind is that DW is going to have better Flurry uptime due to more melee hits, so the difference in white DPS is going to be even bigger. Like I said, the possibility certainly exists that Executing is better at certain gear levels.

1. The flurry uptime is different from benefited auto from flurry. It is actually a simple calculation that 2H weapon benefit more from DW.

2. You are too optimist about the execute usage per gcd. You can actually calculate your rage gain with glance miss and dodge.

3. As you can say your rage income may increase by gear, execute damage fall behind so fast that it is not comparable to other static ability.
Long story short, in low gear you dont have the rage to support high uptime of execute per gcd.
In high gear, the execute damage fall behind without any scaling.

4. Im not even mentioning the sword proc from ability benefit.

What I wrote here is just a conclusion about Arms, ofc I can talk about the reason behind. However, I don’t have time to write a complete guide nor anyone will be interested to read anything other than conclusion here.