Low fire dmg

Hello there,

I play mage according to the guide here: https://legacy-wow.com/tbc-mage-guide/
That includes Vontre’s equivalence points for gear, core fire talents, basic rotation principles etc etc ...

My GS at the moment is 3111 with following spell stats unbuffed:
Intel - 496
Spirit - 215
Spell dmg - 953
Hit - 166
Crit - 160 / 14,35% (23,35% in fire talents)
Haste - 83
mp5 - 223

Fire talents:
http://calculators.iradei.eu/talents...10000000000000

Frost talents (originally created mainly for solo farm):
http://calculators.iradei.eu/talents...13235010251551




Any guide I have read basically says that besides few specific gears and group setups Fire should perform best or shoulder to shoulder with some complex builds in raids. Definitely better than basic frost spec after some starting HC/Kara gear.

The point is ... I cannot see fire outperforming my frost build in raids (or anywhere).

I made some testing on dummy.
Approximated 5 separated measurings for all rotations that lasted until I was oom (up to 2 mins).
Buffs used: only Arcane intelect and Molten armor.
Here are the results:

Frost spec:
only Frost bolt spam - 951 dps
burst phase test (double icy+trinket+Water elemental) - 1199 dps

Fire spec:
only Fireball spam - 815 dps
5x Scorch full uptime + Fireball spam - 938 dps
burst phase test (icy veins+trinket+combustion) - 1014 dps

Since I was testing on full hp dummy there was no Molten fury taken into account but lets say that dmg will be equally split across all boss fight.
That would make my measured dps 985 for standart scorch debuff + Fireball spam rotation and about 1065 average dps when burst phase gets included below 20%.


Those fire numbers are goddamn far from being superior mage spec.
While buffed in raid I usually do about 1-1,2k dps frostbolting (trash or long boss fights) and going up to 1,4-,1,5k dps during short boss fights when utilizing dmg CDs. I didnt run many raids in my fire spec since I can see it is worse but I can tell that in fire spec I am able only to touch my frost numbers when it is a good day.
I didnt even see any other fire mage outperform me clearly and many mages around are just going Arcane.

Please, can someone tell me if there is some crucial mistake in my build or if there is something wrong with fire mages on this server?
Because from what I understand it is definitely not performing the way it is supposed to be.

Thanks a lot! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hedva

Hello there,

I play mage according to the guide here: https://legacy-wow.com/tbc-mage-guide/
That includes Vontre’s equivalence points for gear, core fire talents, basic rotation principles etc etc ...

My GS at the moment is 3111 with following spell stats unbuffed:
Intel - 496
Spirit - 215
Spell dmg - 953
Hit - 166
Crit - 160 / 14,35% (23,35% in fire talents)
Haste - 83
mp5 - 223

Fire talents:
http://calculators.iradei.eu/talents...10000000000000

Frost talents (originally created mainly for solo farm):
http://calculators.iradei.eu/talents...13235010251551




Any guide I have read basically says that besides few specific gears and group setups Fire should perform best or shoulder to shoulder with some complex builds in raids. Definitely better than basic frost spec after some starting HC/Kara gear.

The point is ... I cannot see fire outperforming my frost build in raids (or anywhere).

I made some testing on dummy.
Approximated 5 separated measurings for all rotations that lasted until I was oom (up to 2 mins).
Buffs used: only Arcane intelect and Molten armor.
Here are the results:

Frost spec:
only Frost bolt spam - 951 dps
burst phase test (double icy+trinket+Water elemental) - 1199 dps

Fire spec:
only Fireball spam - 815 dps
5x Scorch full uptime + Fireball spam - 938 dps
burst phase test (icy veins+trinket+combustion) - 1014 dps

Since I was testing on full hp dummy there was no Molten fury taken into account but lets say that dmg will be equally split across all boss fight.
That would make my measured dps 985 for standart scorch debuff + Fireball spam rotation and about 1065 average dps when burst phase gets included below 20%.


Those fire numbers are goddamn far from being superior mage spec.
While buffed in raid I usually do about 1-1,2k dps frostbolting (trash or long boss fights) and going up to 1,4-,1,5k dps during short boss fights when utilizing dmg CDs. I didnt run many raids in my fire spec since I can see it is worse but I can tell that in fire spec I am able only to touch my frost numbers when it is a good day.
I didnt even see any other fire mage outperform me clearly and many mages around are just going Arcane.

Please, can someone tell me if there is some crucial mistake in my build or if there is something wrong with fire mages on this server?
Because from what I understand it is definitely not performing the way it is supposed to be.

Thanks a lot! :)

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Fire spec here is a ****... resist on IGNITE talent... wtf? resist on vulnerable to fire dmg from "scorch" talent -> resist... we hit mob by scorch but effect is resisted - ??!!
Players with BiS gear for this moment, wearing t5 tiers and going to arcane spec...
seriously nobody from dev's or gm's not see this problem ?

Can confirm, even with BiS available items atm, arcane is better, and I get a feeling it may be better in SWP too...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aiyai

Can confirm, even with BiS available items atm, arcane is better, and I get a feeling it may be better in SWP too...

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Probably will be, what is very sad... with who we can talk about that problem cause i see noone from devs is responding here ...

maybe we have to create an ticket
for it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Futzu

maybe we have to create an ticket
for it

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GMs don't handle that stuff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aiyai

GMs don't handle that stuff.

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Then Dev's do... so what we should do to get respond from them ?
That big community and server and that big problems with class... everyone waiting for swp but for what if tier 5 is the best ;D it's a joke ...

Open a ticket in bugtracker, they respond there usually.

Devs fix issues, they are not searching for them... its up to players to find the bugs and make report containing legitimate proofs for it. All the time I hear people critisizing warmane and their devs about variety of things like "muh resists too high" "muh dmg too high" "hit through pillars wtf" and in the end 95% of those complaints came from players that do not knowing the game/compare it to previous Pserver experience.

If you want something to get fixed, do the testing on warmane, find the actual bug then find the evidence from old retail vids/forums and then make the report. If the report is legitimate, they will fix it. And if the report is class bug, they fix it with highest priority.

Everyone just complains because its easy, but noone is willing to take the time and actualy look for bugs/proofs. If you think fire spec underperforms compared to retail, find the bug and report it.
But keep in mind that we had 2.4.3 mechanic/stat values/talents since release and some classes will always perform differently due to that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aeded

Devs fix issues, they are not searching for them... its up to players to find the bugs and make report containing legitimate proofs for it. All the time I hear people critisizing warmane and their devs about variety of things like "muh resists too high" "muh dmg too high" "hit through pillars wtf" and in the end 95% of those complaints came from players that do not knowing the game/compare it to previous Pserver experience.

If you want something to get fixed, do the testing on warmane, find the actual bug then find the evidence from old retail vids/forums and then make the report. If the report is legitimate, they will fix it. And if the report is class bug, they fix it with highest priority.

Everyone just complains because its easy, but noone is willing to take the time and actualy look for bugs/proofs. If you think fire spec underperforms compared to retail, find the bug and report it.
But keep in mind that we had 2.4.3 mechanic/stat values/talents since release and some classes will always perform differently due to that.

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If I had everything thaw was needed by warmane devs to get my report accepted, I would have done it already.
One thing is being aware of bugs, other is knowing precisely what is wrong, which is even harder given that we play on 2.4.3 and content is really old now. It's like driving a ferrari, and finding out that some other 5x cheaper car can accelerate faster. You sure as hell know something's up, but you're not a mechanic.

If you browse web archive of some reliable pages like Elitist Jerks, you can easily find information which spec performs better, but it's not gonna help at all in finding what's wrong.

"If you want something to get fixed, do the testing on warmane" Already told it, but you skipped this part where you usualy find out what precisely is wrong. When you are doing something its usualy wise to start from beginning rather than from middle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aeded

"If you want something to get fixed, do the testing on warmane" Already told it, but you skipped this part where you usualy find out what precisely is wrong. When you are doing something its usualy wise to start from beginning rather than from middle.

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You missed the part where I said arcane IS better with BiS items? It IS better right here, right now, it shouldn't be, and everything is fine with arcane spec. So yeah, I did test both arcane and fire, fire is doing less than arcane, shouldn't be, and to find out precisely why I'd need knowledge that's not lying around. And being myself, after playing multiple expansions at once, I don't trust my memory about TBC, and info I need is nowhere to be found. See the problem?

What testing do you think I was supposed to do that would reveal precisely which part is not working properly? It can be even something stupid like 1% error somewhere, and without information how precisely everything is supposed to work how do I see which one is wrong?

I made a brief testing of few basic elements today and what I found out is that Incineration talent may be not affecting Scorch (properly or at least both ranks of it). I casted 1000 scorches with less than 2% crit increase over my fire spell crit chance. Which can be easily just statistical deviation but it took about half an hour of spamming so further investigation from anyone is appreciated.

Of course this is very small matter since majority of fire dmg comes from Fireball and lack of fire dmg should be looked for in Fireball scaling.

Btw, just to demonstrate how much fire is deficient: I just raided ZA in my 3,2k gs "semi farm-semi raid" frost spec and outperformed in damage full T6 fire mage (3,5k gs+) on every single encounter by about 10%.

ok next raid i log my dmg and resist and look for the partial resists and full resists but an full resist of ignite or scorch debuff dont be the real mechanic of it

some one think combustion is broken?

9 stacks of it with 34% crit chance and no crit? with 124% crit chance?

anyone have working resi tracker?