Does Troll's Racial Bow Specialization also affect Crossbows?

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Originally Posted by Bastardbottle

I wonder when will you realize that 0.0025 is %0.25, not %0.0025. Lets make it simple for you, lets assume that we do 95 damage and our pet does 5 damage. Increase that 5 damage by %5, 5 x 1.05 (%5) = 5,25, which is an increase of 0,25 damage. Lets compare the new damage with old one now, 100 with 100.25. Tell me the increase in percentage will you? And since you wanted sim, here is fully raid buffed sims even though it favors haste like mad.

https://imgur.com/nG3geom

Orc: 18439
Troll: 18422
Its this close only cause rawr treats haste like a godsend for hunter while its not, it even values 25hc neck way more than rimetooth hc for hunter.

Rawr files incase you wanna check: (They are same, only changed races, the only buffs I didnt include are hysteria and tot.)
https://easyupload.io/iort5w - orc
https://easyupload.io/zuqmmp - troll

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god youre literally ******ed, yes 5% pet dmg will buff ur pet by 5%, does that mean its a 5% dps increase overall? no, your PET dps contributes to 4-5% of the hunters dps, buff that by 5%, that makes 5% of 5%, which results in an increase of the HUNTERS DPS by literally ****ing irrelevant number.

now look at the pics you literally sent, troll > orc, yes its sims, yes they might not be ''exact'' but theyre simming for fights that you stand still, which results in extra autos in the end, which is a bigger increase overall, and again, sindy neck hc > rimetooth hc, its simply better. higher ilvl = more stats overall, the tradeoff is 12 agi 23 stam 7 ap 8 arp,

u cant look at sims and say ohh look it increases ur pet dps by 80 !! its better than increasing the hunters pet by 75 !! thats not how **** works

Im ****ing tired of your ****ing attitude, open your ****ing eyes blind boy ok. You cant even read properly, only spitting **** on things you dont understhand. Who the **** said that it was %5 overall damage increase, who the **** said? I clearly said that it was %0.4-0.5 overall increase when you said %0.0025 (your math is ****ed up.). Check the picture ok, rawr values haste like you want it to, standing still and keep benefitting from haste, rather than adding 1 autoshot, it turns that %20 haste/10 seconds to a passive which contributes your case. Even so your 75dps higher troll loses. Since your math is way too ****ed up let me calculate for you
17206 + 1233 = 18439 (orc.)
17250 + 1172 = 18422 (troll.)
18439 - 18422 = 17
17 ****ING MORE DPS IN FAVOR OF ORC in this flawed sim that favors troll, ok. ****ing listen to your math lessons better next time. Oh and if you are still not seeing and wondering, 1233/1172 are both pet dps es, as clearly shown on the picture. Also learn how dps works, you are in a ****ing delusion by thinking that increase of dps on hunter contributes more even if pet gets same increase which is utter bull****. 10 agility may increase your dps by 10 while increasing pets by 1, but it wont matter whichever source gets the increase, since it will just increase your contribution to damage by 11, not 10.

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Originally Posted by Bastardbottle

Im ****ing tired of your ****ing attitude, open your ****ing eyes blind boy ok. You cant even read properly, only spitting **** on things you dont understhand. Who the **** said that it was %5 overall damage increase, who the **** said? I clearly said that it was %0.4-0.5 overall increase when you said %0.0025 (your math is ****ed up.). Check the picture ok, rawr values haste like you want it to, standing still and keep benefitting from haste, rather than adding 1 autoshot, it turns that %20 haste/10 seconds to a passive which contributes your case. Even so your 75dps higher troll loses. Since your math is way too ****ed up let me calculate for you
17206 + 1233 = 18439 (orc.)
17250 + 1172 = 18422 (troll.)
18439 - 18422 = 17
17 ****ING MORE DPS IN FAVOR OF ORC in this flawed sim that favors troll, ok. ****ing listen to your math lessons better next time. Oh and if you are still not seeing and wondering, 1233/1172 are both pet dps es, as clearly shown on the picture.

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thats the point of sims rofl, you should always sim for best scenario because thats how you should ****ing play, youll always get that extra autos off because in almost no scenario that you need to move constantly, even on lod you have bunch of stand-still time,

its not the first time that you say random **** in forums lol, everyone knows you spit **** constantly :)
ive beaten alot of bis orcs on dbs, but if u really want to, u can race me while im on troll, ill give u candy if you ever break 21k end dps on dbs

Oh boy, now its time to do ad hominem then. Let me remind you then how you utterly spitted **** on serpent sting refresh while acting like you know your **** while throwing only curse words when everyone were proving to you otherwise. http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=426638

Since you are all talk, arrange a raid after 20th of april (need vp to change faction.), save me a spot and beat me if you can ok, names Atwight, not even fully BiS but eager to make you cry like a baby.

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Originally Posted by Bastardbottle

Oh boy, now its time to do ad hominem then. Let me remind you then how you utterly spitted **** on serpent sting refresh while acting like you know your **** while throwing only curse words when everyone were proving to you otherwise. http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=426638

Since you are all talk, arrange a raid after 20th of april (need vp to change faction.), save me a spot and beat me if you can ok, names Atwight, not even fully BiS but eager to make you cry like a baby.

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lol yeah i was wrong about that because my scrolling text was bugged, ever since i fixed my comments in multiple places, atleast i can admit my mistakes, can you tho?, also, i got toons on both factions, and if you ever wanna race somewhere else, we can race on fluffy's server, or you could check my char: Lustboy

At least you stopped swearing. Btw on that post, I calmly tried to explain how you mistakenly accounted atkpower buffs instead of dmg multiplier one but you just didnt wanna listen, nothing related with scrolling texts etc. Anyway I can also make mathematical mistakes but on this, I didnt. Numbers are there for anyone to correct them if anything is wrong about them. Well if you have alliance hunter, you can arrange a raid and I can join if you dont want to wait till I faction change.

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Originally Posted by Bastardbottle

At least you stopped swearing. Btw on that post, I calmly tried to explain how you mistakenly accounted atkpower buffs instead of dmg multiplier one but you just didnt wanna listen, nothing related with scrolling texts etc. Anyway I can also make mathematical mistakes but on this, I didnt. Numbers are there for anyone to correct them if anything is wrong about them. Well if you have alliance hunter, you can arrange a raid and I can join if you dont want to wait till I faction change.

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it was indeed a scrolling text bug, i did do my test with the %dmg mod buff, but the scrolling text was corrupted, it didnt even show right numbers in terms of dmg, it was showing some chimeras doing like 1k dmg for some reasons, but switched versions and everything is fine now, also yes numbers are right with pet dps and stuff, but the hunter itself has higher active time than the pet due to movement/target switch etc, so hunter dps is valued higher than pet dps,

atm my 2nd hunter is still gearing, but i can send u over to some people who are on the same skill level, or if u really want to, we can race on fluffy's server

also even forgot to add that berserking is up exactly at the time STS comes back up since its a 3 min cd and not 2 min,
youd get orc's passive back up 15 seconds after sts on a 2 min cd while youd get it exactly at the time sts procs on a 3 min cd giving you a big boost on the 2nd berserking

here made you a visual to understand how troll fits perfectly with sts

https://imgur.com/a/kpHFDNU

if your sims settings is set on a fight lasting 180s (3min) which is default on rawr, its not gonna take into account 2nd troll racial+sts and further procs

BF doesnt have to synch with atkpower buffs but with haste apart from crit/dmg multipliers etc, if there was a atkpower multiply trinket, it would matter if they did synch or not, berserking on other hand is giving one auto attack which you want to buff as hard as you can with atkpower and other buffs (but not with haste on this patch, since they add nothing to it.)

And I checked rawr, it was based on 5 mins fight (300 secs.), I just changed the timers a bit and these are the results.

195 seconds (just after 2nd berserking ends, 45secs till BF)
Orc: 17857 + 1271 = 19128
Troll: 17950 + 1208 = 19158

260 seconds (just after 3rd BF ends, 100secs till ZERK.)
Orc: 17461 + 1264 = 18725
Troll: 17510 + 1202 18712

380 seconds (after 4rd BF/3rd ZERK ends.)
Orc: 17097 + 1191 18288
Troll: 17041 + 1253 18294

500 seconds (after 5th BF, 40 secs till ZERK.)
Orc: 16668 + 1247 = 17915
Troll: 16704 + 1185 = 17889

555 seconds (after 4th ZERK, 45 secs till BF.)
Orc: 16556 + 1243 = 17799
Troll: 16612 + 1182 = 17794

From what I got from these results are, troll does more dps between 180-240 seconds, rest of the time orc does more though not that much to notice.

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Originally Posted by Bastardbottle

BF doesnt have to synch with atkpower buffs but with haste apart from crit/dmg multipliers etc, if there was a atkpower multiply trinket, it would matter if they did synch or not, berserking on other hand is giving one auto attack which you want to buff as hard as you can with atkpower and other buffs (but not with haste on this patch, since they add nothing to it.)

And I checked rawr, it was based on 5 mins fight (300 secs.), I just changed the timers a bit and these are the results.

195 seconds (just after 2nd berserking ends, 45secs till BF)
Orc: 17857 + 1271 = 19128
Troll: 17950 + 1208 = 19158

260 seconds (just after 3rd BF ends, 100secs till ZERK.)
Orc: 17461 + 1264 = 18725
Troll: 17510 + 1202 18712

380 seconds (after 4rd BF/3rd ZERK ends.)
Orc: 17097 + 1191 18288
Troll: 17041 + 1253 18294

500 seconds (after 5th BF, 40 secs till ZERK.)
Orc: 16668 + 1247 = 17915
Troll: 16704 + 1185 = 17889

555 seconds (after 4th ZERK, 45 secs till BF.)
Orc: 16556 + 1243 = 17799
Troll: 16612 + 1182 = 17794

From what I got from these results are, troll does more dps between 180-240 seconds, rest of the time orc does more though not that much to notice.

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Yes but thats the thing, sims over 4 min = lod (talking realistic wotlk relevant fight) is a fight where your pet doesnt have 99% active time on dps, because they are melee and during trans/valk switches theres downtime on active time, which makes your pet dps less valued than what it actually is, about a 5 to 10% less, you shouldnt look at sims for pet dps but hunter's dps itself

And wym buffing berserking not with haste lol, i said how berserking proc was sync'ing perfectly with sts, didnt talk about any random other haste proc

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Originally Posted by Fmtansei

Yes but thats the thing, sims over 4 min = lod (talking realistic wotlk relevant fight) is a fight where your pet doesnt have 99% active time on dps, because they are melee and during trans/valk switches theres downtime on active time, which makes your pet dps less valued than what it actually is, about a 5 to 10% less, you shouldnt look at sims for pet dps but hunter's dps itself

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Nope, any fights that are shorter than 3 mins and longer than 4 mins, orc does more (troll does more according to sim between 0-120seconds aswell prolly, didnt check.), troll does only more dps in that specific time due headstart due no cd at beginning. And no, as long as hunter is active, pet is active, unless you are range specced and dps ing the lk during transitions, you ll be inactive for same amount of time, what disables pet is the frostmourne phase which wont matter anymore, at that time the extra hunter dps there wont be able to cap the difference.

About berserking proccing with sts, I didnt say sts proc gives haste or anything, I just said that, sts proc doesnt have to synch with BF since it adds nothing to it, only beneficial buff that improves BF is except other buffs are the haste ones.

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Originally Posted by Bastardbottle

Nope, any fights that are shorter than 3 mins and longer than 4 mins, orc does more (troll does more according to sim between 0-120seconds aswell prolly, didnt check.), troll does only more dps in that specific time due headstart due no cd at beginning. And no, as long as hunter is active, pet is active, unless you are range specced and dps ing the lk during transitions, you ll be inactive for same amount of time, what disables pet is the frostmourne phase which wont matter anymore, at that time the extra hunter dps there wont be able to cap the difference.

About berserking proccing with sts, I didnt say sts proc gives haste or anything, I just said that, sts proc doesnt have to synch with BF since it adds nothing to it, only beneficial buff that improves BF is except other buffs are the haste ones.

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you pet is inactive by the time it runs from you to lk, by the time it runs from lk to ragings on transitions, by the time it runs back to lk after trans, the time it switches targets and after fmc's look at the difference in active time between the hunter and the pet : https://imgur.com/a/60kUptW
im not talking about your pet being up/alive im talking stictly about its dps active time.

and no, on a fight lasting the duration of lod, troll sims higher than orc (strictly hunter itself dps)