Threat, heroics and difficulty of the 5man

My friend and I have been running heroics and have had a very difficult time getting through the trash mobs. It seems the tank is unable to hold agro. Of course some of this is contributed to people bringing the wotlk mentality of burning it all down asap, causing all the mobs to be pull in all directions and picking them all back up becomes impossible. Overlooking those mistakes, Im asking the question, does anyone feel the threat of the healer is higher than intended? Getting mobs off the healer seems to be the main concern in many pulls. Many times, fade wont even drop agro. Is this lack of control and focus fire on the pulls or is something else going on? similar experiences?

bad tanks is the problem

+1 to that, most people i've been in a group with are steamrolling the dungeons like on WoTLK, Cata...etc

It should be ok once everyone gets used to how threat mechanics used to work in TBC

Tanks generally do have problems holding massive threat straight away. The problem isn't necessarily the tank but more likely DPS that don't understand if I pull agro I will die/wipe the group. These 5 man instances/heroics take coordination most people here are not used to. CC is important! A heroic can take 1-2 hours!

Healers often forget that they should not heal right away :)
Let your tank go down a little and precast a big heal scheduled for when your tank is at 30% hp. Should be way easier.

the classes themself as tanks are not bad, ppl just dont understand how tanking or their class works.
even though heroics are considered harder than kara its not the tank class that makes it hard.

paladins are by far the best and by a mile the easiest tanks for this. they have the best aoe threat if you go for spellpower (you must do this, spell power weapons are best), have good survival with ardent defender and literally wait for 2 10sec cds to do threat/dps.

if you play warriors you have to know how to press heroic strike... seems hard? not really. since your aoe is limited you have to tab target and stance dance for things like berserk rage to get more rage. yes its more challenging than pally or druid but they have other advangages. and this is still not what makes a heroic dungeon "hard".

druids are meatshield. armor cap, solid dodge and a ridiculous hp number. they do good aggro with maul/mangle single target and aoe if you know how to tab. they are what offtanks are in the purest form.

anyway this conclusion tanks have bad snap aggro is wrong, every tank has it. you just need to press your buttons, give your dps salvation (this is the best dps buff by far). just learn how to pull correctly (not just run into a group lol) and what the advantages/disatvantages of your class are.
if tanks would do low threat/sec every dps class would have to stop dps mid fight... just wait till the tank has 1-2 gcds and go full out. a fury warrior might want to wait a bit longer but any other dps can go full yolo.

You can't play TBC like wrath. Tank threat got a big buff in wrath. In TBC tanks have to fight for threat and dps need to follow kill order/marks.

That said pally tanks are great at trash pulls

Also click off hots before the next pull. Don't throw a big heal in the first 2-5secs in big pulls

People are having a taste of what MMOs used to be and how the whole group had to work in tandem, lest every single DD bursting steals aggression...
Before the age where tanks just act as lures while everyone else spams damage, this is what games used to be like. It wasn't just healers who had to control their flow of healing, but DDs also had to tone down their damage so tanks were able to keep the attention.

I thought I will join the discussion.
I'm playing as a tank and healer only (mainly tank). I tanked some dungeons already as a warrior. I've tanked vanilla, tbc, some wotlk and everything since cataclysm as a warrior.

One big problem on all old expansions is clearly the mindset of people. They wanna rush trough every dungeon no matter what the tank is doing. Same here.
Nonetheless I managed to keep aggro even on big groups if I used the right spells. I'm not one of this uber pro's who knows every amount of threat a spell generates but I have experience and so I managed to tank the dungeons with no big problems. Usually 5m dungeons are even harder to tank as raids, because there is much more concentration and focus.
Hope that gave you a little hope, see you on outland.

I remember doing pugs in vanilla as a warrior. People "learned" for the most part to not pull aggro off of the tank. That being said, there is only so much threat tanks can do, this entire expansion is limited by threat not dps. In raid groups your MT warrior needs an enh shaman's WF totem so that your whole raid can do more damage.

As far as 5 mans are concerned, prot pallys have the best aoe threat generation. Warriors tclap should mostly keep attention, but the warrior will still need to tab sunder to keep mobs off of the healer. The best thing you can do to fix this problem is make sure the tank is marking targets for a kill/cc order and wait at least a couple globals so that sunders/threat can be applied.

I agree with this. Sometimes was unable to do trash. Mobs that shouldnt be pulled was pulled and as pala holy with -30% threat buff i was getting all aggro i could get ..... And tank was getting miss or dodge with his taunt which shouldnt happen with this gear on hc...

This is how life is in tbc. Your dps directly depends on the threat of the tank. In the meanwhile you can start asking for Blessing of Salvation, which effectively lets you deal 30% more damage safely, instead of Kings.

TBC heroics were designed for raiders , expect to struggle .

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Originally Posted by Gloubi

Healers often forget that they should not heal right away :)
Let your tank go down a little and precast a big heal scheduled for when your tank is at 30% hp. Should be way easier.

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This is actually one of the many reasons I love healing with a Priest. If the tank is a Paladin, or if it is a Warrior/Druid that has a fair amount of rage, you can put a shield on them before they go in. And if you get threat, you can fade it off.