[Rant] People acting like bots.

I am really being pissed of by the behavior of a large fraction of the playerbase on Frostmourne who act like they are playing a solo-game.

From leveling in Random Dungeon Finder (RDF) to farming lvl 80 RDFs, I have been encountering a crap ton of selfish, absolutely oblivious and unconcerned team 'mates'. Same while questing, working my way towards reputation, etc.

Maybe I just forgot how the game really is (just returned after 3 years). Maybe the RDF 'meta' encourages these behaviours.

I'm amazed how hard it seems to be for many players to just answer simple questions on Party chat. I have been in many groups where I can type a semi-dozen of messages over the length of a dungeon and get exaclty 0 answers (imagine chatting on a MMO game).

I have reached a point where these people make me feel cringy about using the Party chat, because I'm almost always getting ignored. It feels like I am the weird guy trying to communicate, yet I cannot resolve into playing WoW like a robot as they do.

This game attracts people with problems, you know, socially awkward types.
And the big population only makes it easier to be antisocial - so what if you ignore me, there are 1000 dudes who won't, building up a "good reputation" doesn't matter either.

It used to be a bit better back in they day, but now people talk very sporadically.I play on Icecrown and I'm usually the only one to respond in party chat ;x And I have schizoid PD... I guess the new generation is even more socially screwed up than us :/

While it might be the case for some, calling them "people with problems," socially awkward or selfish (can't it be called selfish to rant that people aren't interested in chatting with you?) in general isn't going to convince anyone to start doing it. If anything it could make some willing to now not care about doing it.

That aside, people can have dozens of reasons to not care about party chat, unless something is going wrong. They could be in whispers, in chat with their guild, chatting in voice on Discord. They could be wanting to be efficient and chit-chat gets in the way. They might not understand English at all and leave chatting for people with the same language they know. And they might simply just want to finish the dungeon and move on to the next thing, not make friends. They're just temporary allies, not acquaintances, not soon-to-be buddies.

There's nothing wrong at all in any of that, and it isn't something only in our servers or World of Warcraft. This happens in every online game I've played for the last decades that had any sort of random grouping system. A hello at the start, a nice work (or recently "gg") at the end, and everyone goes their own way. If the group clicked well, some might add each others to their friends list and group again, eventually growing into chit-chatting, but that isn't something that should be taken for expected, much less for granted.

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

While it might be the case for some, calling them "people with problems," socially awkward or selfish (can't it be called selfish to rant that people aren't interested in chatting with you?) in general isn't going to convince anyone to start doing it. If anything it could make some willing to not care about doing it now.

That aside, people can have dozens of reasons to not care about party chat, unless something is going wrong. They could be in whispers, in chat with their guild, chatting in voice on Discord. They could be wanting to be efficient and chit-chat gets in the way. They might not understand English at all and leave chatting for people with the same language they know. And they might simply just want to finish the dungeon and move on to the next thing, not make friends. They're just temporary allies, not acquaintances, not soon-to-be buddies.

There's nothing wrong at all in any of that, and it isn't something only in our servers or World of Warcraft. This happens in every online game I've played for the last decades that had any sort of random grouping system. A hello at the start, a nice work (or recently "gg") at the end, and everyone goes their own way. If the group clicked well, some might add each others to their friends list and group again, eventually growing into chit-chatting, but that isn't something that should be taken for expected, much less for granted.

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Sorry, I should have been more specific on my first post (didn't want to be too lengthy tho). I'm not talking about 'chit-chat' at all. I totally agree with you I'm not entitled to that. I'm 100% OK with party members who don't want to have a trivial talk during a dungeon, I understand there are multiple reasons.

I have a problem with people literally, purposefully ignoring other players when they ask a straightforward question on a game mechanic. I'll just give you a clear example with what happened yesterday.

I used the dungeon finder, joining the specific queue on Drak'Tharon. While I was in the queue I was wondering if:
a. specific queue is not shared with RDF queue ( hence possibly a longer queue )
b. specific and RDF queue are shared

So the first thing I did when entering the dungeon was saying hello and asking if they did tag RDF or specific. Guess what? Nobody answers. So what, maybe they just don't read chat? Except they do: a few seconds later a party member asks to share quests and the other guys tell him they don't have any, etc. Alright, I suppose they missed my message and ask a second time. No answers. etc.

What was the cost for them to answer that straightforward question? Let's be honest: None, unless spending 10 seconds to type 'I tagged RDF' is considered a tremendous intellectual and mechanical effort. This I call being selfish and acting like you play a solo game.

That aside, when I talk about selfishness, it's much more about the issues I met when questing than communication. I'm baffled how frequently people will gladly accept your help and then dump you as soon as they completed their objectives / refuse to invite you to their party for no reason, even if it would be obviously faster for everyone / generally exploit all your individual efforts as a team player and then not care at any point about your quest getting done. Tbh I just completed the Sons of Hodir chain quest and my faith in the WoW community has dramatically dropped.

Regarding what happened in the dungeon, I have to say to me "did you get here with RDF or specific?" would have looked like chit-chat and I might have ignored it, left it for someone else to answer if they wanted. It wouldn't affect the run in the least how people got put together in that group, so it wasn't a mechanical question or one that mattered. It's the sort of question you're better asking people in some channel or the Forums, where you can explain the context.

As for questing, that happens even on retail. Some will join, but lots are doing it solo because they want to be solo. They are their own thing, and sure, you helped them out of nowhere, but they aren't changing their plans of moving along alone on as soon as they're done because of it. You are expecting an exchange of help when none was offered, and to be taken in along in their party when that might be intruding in what they want to do alone. Are you being that selfless when your help comes with all that load imposed on them?

because nobody needs anyone. you don't need someone to do quests (especially elite quests), you don't need to communicate with someone to join 5-man dungeons (ok, in raids you should can write something beside /roll, or if you very brave - to speak in Discord), you don't need a guild, you can farm arena rating without regular teammate, etc...

when I played on one dead (thanks blizz) vanilla server, in Elwynn forest I communicated to do elite quest to kill Hogger with more peoples than on Wotlk server while getting 80 level.
when I played on TBC and do some 5-man dungeons runs, before clearing trash we mark them - 'skull' to kill, 'shield' to fear or banish, 'moon' to sheep. Every trash pack! Without this CC very hard to clear most of dung, especially heroics. This also makes players to communicate with each other. Compare it with Wotlk, when last time someone used CC? On Lich King to stun Valks? HoP on slimes? I sometimes do stunlocks or disarms, but this is not necessary and very rare. LOL, you can do some heroics without a tank or heal(I healed PoS with my SP). Why to chat with someone? You can que RDF/BG/Arena again.
This is like mentality. Wotlk players don't have time for wipes in Azjol-Nerub. They want to rush, as fast as they can, effortlessly, to make ICC runs again and again, without any emotions, just for gear.
This is not peoples with social problems, this is how gameplay affect communication.

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

Regarding what happened in the dungeon, I have to say to me "did you get here with RDF or specific?" would have looked like chit-chat and I might have ignored it, left it for someone else to answer if they wanted. It wouldn't affect the run in the least how people got put together in that group, so it wasn't a mechanical question or one that mattered. It's the sort of question you're better asking people in some channel or the Forums, where you can explain the context.

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Okay, whatever. Personally, when someone asks a plain question I don't ignore him or pretend I didn't read when that guy asks the same question a second time because nobody in the party bother to take 10 second to type an answer. I guess that's something exceptional then.

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

As for questing, that happens even on retail. Some will join, but lots are doing it solo because they want to be solo. They are their own thing, and sure, you helped them out of nowhere, but they aren't changing their plans of moving along alone on as soon as they're done because of it.

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Agreed.

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

You are expecting an exchange of help when none was offered [...]

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Except that it happens as well when people invite you in the first place. They just use your efforts and dump you like garbage as soon as their things are dealed with. This is very common and disgusting in my opinion, and I'm concerned about this in particular.

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Originally Posted by Obnoxious

Are you being that selfless when your help comes with all that load imposed on them?

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On an anthropological level this remark is very naive (in my humble opinion). There is no such thing as selflessly helping someone when two individuals are deliberately working towards the same goal (read 'quest' in the context of WoW). You help your mate and in return it is expected that your mate will help you. This is how literally any healthy human society works. Moral considerations universally shared by humans such as 'fairness', 'justice' all are based on this principle.

In a normal functioning community an individual who receives help from others and never returns the favor will be looked down by everyone.

The only reason why this is not the case in the context of MMO games is the fact that the scale of the community, turn-over of the playerbase and fast pace allows you to behave like a dick and face no consequences. You would NEVER behave like this IRL (unless you are a socially sick person) and you know it. You would not purposefully ignore people trying to connect with you and asking simple questions nor dump people who teamed with you towards an objective. That's not how social interactions works.

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Originally Posted by Hernest

Okay, whatever. Personally, when someone asks a plain question I don't ignore him or pretend I didn't read when that guy asks the same question a second time because nobody in the party bother to take 10 second to type an answer. I guess that's something exceptional then.

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Again, your question might as well have been "how's the weather where you guys live?" from how you said you asked, not something related to mechanics. Some people are in RDF just to do the dungeon and queue again or move on to something else, not to chat or socialize. You might call them "selfish" for that, but selfishness is often in the eye of the beholder. For them you might be the one selfish, ranting for not getting answers when that's not what they were there for.

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Originally Posted by Hernest

Except that it happens as well when people invite you in the first place. They just use your efforts and dump you like garbage as soon as their things are dealed with. This is very common and disgusting in my opinion, and I'm concerned about this in particular.

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Okay, that's a different case, but unfortunately our model of allowing anyone to create accounts and play for free attracts all kinds, including that. I think calling it very common might be just venting or at most just your personal experience, because I don't see that sort of complain around the Forums ever. I'd say be wary of just joining random people, but you can't know if they will be someone decent until it's too late I guess.

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Originally Posted by Hernest

On an anthropological level this remark is very naive (in my humble opinion). There is no such thing as selflessly helping someone when two individuals are working towards the same goal (read 'quest' in the context of WoW). You help your mate and in return it is expected that your mate will help you. This is how literally any health human society works. Moral considerations universally shared by humans such as 'fairness', 'justice' all are based on this principle.

In a normal functioning community an individual who receives help from other and never returns the favor will be looked down by others.

The only reason why this is not the case in the context of MMO games is the fact that the scale of the community, turn-over of the playerbase and fast pace allows you to behave like a dick and face no consequences. You would NEVER behave like this IRL (unless you are a socially sick person) and you know it. You would not purposefully ignore people trying to connect with you and asking simple questions nor dump people who teamed with you towards an objective.

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For one, no, it isn't naïve, it was just countering you calling people who don't answer your questions or accept to join you in doing the same quests as selfish. But you're admitting you also were looking out for yourself in that, even if by grouping, so that's dealt with.

But past that, take a step back. You're trying to compare an online game where people play to have fun with real life societies? "Helping your mate" and expecting help back? They're strangers who bumped into you in some virtual area. You helped them put groceries in their car and they drove away, that's it, you aren't "mates." Maybe they're rude for not saying thanks at most. It's even more so if at no point they went to you and asked for help. In any functional community that will happen, because everyone isn't everyone's "mates." They will go on to help their actual friends who likely won't care that a stranger didn't get help back after helping out of the blue.

Lastly, this might not happen in all cases (it still will happen) in real life not because people are "healthy" - in opposition to your calling the other side "sick" - but because social pressures would force them into doing something they had no interest in doing in the first place. Chit-chat from a stranger can be something from a bother to outright creepy, with people often avoiding answering if they could get away with it (like letting someone else do it, pretending they didn't hear or that they're assuming you aren't talking to them), or giving a brief answer so they can move on. People out in the street in general are there to do some task, not to "connect" with strangers, and they might answer something just for the sake of not being rude face-to-face (and it might still be a dismissive reply to try to give the hint they aren't interested in socializing).

Want a real life example? Beggars. Most people won't even acknowledge them, and that's normal behavior. They didn't approach the beggar, they aren't out in the streets seeking beggars to chat with, they aren't interested in hearing their stories and even less in giving some change at the end. People will casually ignore them and it's perfectly acceptable from "healthy" people.

PS: Chances of some person answering "did you get here by car or on foot?" from a random stranger probably don't look well in real life, since you want to make parallels with it.

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Originally Posted by rpgfan10208

This game attracts people with problems, you know, socially awkward types.
And the big population only makes it easier to be antisocial - so what if you ignore me, there are 1000 dudes who won't, building up a "good reputation" doesn't matter either.

It used to be a bit better back in they day, but now people talk very sporadically.I play on Icecrown and I'm usually the only one to respond in party chat ;x And I have schizoid PD... I guess the new generation is even more socially screwed up than us :/

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pretty sure it's just you two.
as for op. some ppl just want to enjoy the game without being bothered by needy individuals. lol
and you gotta appreciate obnoxious for giving you the time of the day and helping you

I really dont join RDF to chit chat, I just want over with it fast.

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Originally Posted by Hernest

I am really being pissed of by the behavior of a large fraction of the playerbase on Frostmourne who act like they are playing a solo-game.

From leveling in Random Dungeon Finder (RDF) to farming lvl 80 RDFs, I have been encountering a crap ton of selfish, absolutely oblivious and unconcerned team 'mates'. Same while questing, working my way towards reputation, etc.

Maybe I just forgot how the game really is (just returned after 3 years). Maybe the RDF 'meta' encourages these behaviours.

I'm amazed how hard it seems to be for many players to just answer simple questions on Party chat. I have been in many groups where I can type a semi-dozen of messages over the length of a dungeon and get exaclty 0 answers (imagine chatting on a MMO game).

I have reached a point where these people make me feel cringy about using the Party chat, because I'm almost always getting ignored. It feels like I am the weird guy trying to communicate, yet I cannot resolve into playing WoW like a robot as they do.

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For some reason over the years WOW have cultivated playerbase of complete degenerates and antisocial players. Its not just on Private server, retail is the same when you play with randoms. Nixxiom had video last year showing how he say "hey friends" in some dungeon and only person that responded to him was some priest telling him "stfu", and then they finish the dingeon in silence. Few days ago i queue rdf on my lov 75 mage and got into House of Stone normal. Me and the tank was both lvel 75. There was priest level 80 in the party who after the first pack of mobs start flaming us saying how he does half the dmg and have more HP then the tank and how we should not do dungeons and waste people time at level 75.....I have played many mmorpg game and currently playing others then WOW ( like ESO ), never seen so many antisocial or rude players as in WOW.