Over-tuning content and incentivizing class stacking for end game raiding

So, Medivh was supposed to be a "Challenging hardcore raid content." whereas no such statement was made for Outland;
https://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=354453

As it currently stands 4 guilds have downed what is supposed to be a simple gear check that killed guilds that had not farmed BT enough;
http://armory.warmane.com/pveladder/...well/Brutallus

of these; 3 has released videos of them clearly class stacking in order to take down Brutallus;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc9ZxFvnk9U - Panacea
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruK4cD6ajxM - Promise
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=715ffwJOwV4 - Murlock Shop

Let us take some retail Videos;
SK Gaming - 2 tanks - [s]6[/s]7+ Healers - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gAQjX1oK6E
Nihilium - 2 tanks - 7(!) Healers - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPxPxEA8kJ8
Eternal gathering - 2 tanks - 5+ Healers (bad PoV) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfY032hfEGI
Adrastus3 - 2 tanks - 5+ Healers (bad PoV) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwY_x0griio

Now, what's the deal with Outland, first we heard bragging of it being supposed to be retail like with a hardcore server being released later on,
that server died, and now what is supposed to be a gearcheck to force people into BT so that they cant jump from t5/BoJ into Sunwell,
has become either
1) Bring only classes that can deal 2.1k dps sustained on average* and stack DPS classes or
2) Farm BiS BT gear before venturing into SWP to even have a chance with a retail like setup with 6+ healers.

*) Legacylogs Panacea kill 43k raid dps https://legacyplayers.com/Raids/View...?id=3447&exp=1


So what's the deal with Outland, is it retail like or a funserver with overtuned bosses?
Is the server being Migrated into Loaderon 2.0 with 2x health on bosses and 2x boss damage?

For those of you that don't know the tuning;

Outland- 12.5 mil hp 5 mins; that's 43k raid dps*
Retail - 10.5 mil hp 6 mins; that's 30k raid dps

Might just be me, but i'd rather have a bit of a challenge progressing rather than mowing through all this content. Thats why t5 was so much more fun than t6 for me. took us like 17 tries to kill kael, whereas illidan basically died within 5 tries.

Excuse me, Brutalus is supposed to be a simple gear check? Also I am not realy into group setups but 3 destro locks 1 affli, 3 BMs 1 survival is pretty basic setup, what else would you like to bring? 3 boomkins and 2 feral dps druids? Than you probably can't raid end game content doesnt matter the gear.

Here it comes, I was waiting for this thread to start.

Speaking as a member of a guild who hasn't killed Brut yet, I think we'll all be pretty upset if it gets nerfed right now. We have no glaives, we have exactly 3 players who are t6 bis and none of them are DPS classes, we don't use the cash shop at all, and we haven't gotten to trash farm at all because we killed Kalec on the first day and got locked. So we are FAR from the best gear that guilds will have when doing this, and we still managed to get him to 5% with players dead and sub-optimal group comp.

This thread is based on the premise that the fight is over tuned. I'll just go ahead and say it's tuned perfectly and OP is crying about nothing.

Use the numbers from retail TBC. End of story.
If you don't, quit complaining or explaining anything because it is not like it was in TBC.

Well let's be fair here. Spraynard is correct in that it is definitely possible to kill the boss. I think however, that you might be missing the larger point that OP was trying to make. OP was pointing out that it is tuned to be harder than retail. "Overtuned" is a relative term usually. If you are a hardcore guild and you have raiders that are the cream of the crop, then it may not feel overtuned to you and maybe you won't feel the need to stack specific high-dps classes. OP points out that a lot of top guilds are doing that however, and I bet he's probably correct in that a lot of other guilds will follow suit and only stack classes that can help them meet the dps check.

Personally, I hope the tuning is a temporary or even optional thing. Let the guilds that want to flex and do the content at a more hardcore level do that, and then let everyone else enjoy the content as it was on retail. That's just my 2 cents.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ostlimpa

Use the numbers from retail TBC. End of story.
If you don't, quit complaining or explaining anything because it is not like it was in TBC.

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This doesn't concern you - guy who doesn't raid. Every guild would have 1 shot him if it was retail numbers. And we'd all be leaving this server because it would be a joke.

This boss will eventually be nerfed by people possessing Sunwell trash/crafted gear and using the cash shop. End of story. It should be exactly this hard right now for all the legitimate guilds.

if the boss isn't working as it did on retail on whatever patch outland is currently at content wise than it should be fixed. outland isn't a hardcore realm, and the realm that was died because of it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skuddy

if the boss isn't working as it did on retail on whatever patch outland is currently at content wise than it should be fixed. outland isn't a hardcore realm, and the realm that was died because of it.

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It does though. None of the current guilds are class stacking. OP is just assuming (probably incorrectly) that people will be in the future.

Panacea) Usually not running 4 Warlocks nor 4 Hunters; def never both at the same time (Rarely less than 6 healers)
Promise) Rarely (never) runs 4 Hunters normally (Rarely less than 6 healers)
Murlock Shop) Guess what

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spraynard

This doesn't concern you - guy who doesn't raid. Every guild would have 1 shot him if it was retail numbers. And we'd all be leaving this server because it would be a joke.

This boss will eventually be nerfed by people possessing Sunwell trash/crafted gear and using the cash shop. End of story. It should be exactly this hard right now for all the legitimate guilds.

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None of you are legit. You are all overgrown copycats trying to bash in former glory. How pathetic. And I decide what concerns me, not you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ostlimpa

None of you are legit. You are all overgrown copycats trying to bash in former glory. How pathetic. And I decide what concerns me, not you.

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I rest my case. No further proof is needed that you're completely out of your depth. Stick to the cash shop circlejerk threads.

You're a guy who doesn't raid, doesn't like pve, has contempt for raiders, and for some reason wants to harm that aspect of the game.

keep going its getting interesting now...

most of u guys haven't even played on Lord and can't even tell what overtunning really is :)

but back to the topic, this will be like all the other Threads for content nerfs, be the one for T4, T5 or T6 all u guys do here is wasting ur time
because its warmane to decide what they do not you :)

So running 5 healers instead of 6, and 4 warlocks instead of 3 is class stacking now? Interesting....

Sounds to me like any standard comp tweaks to secure a week 1 kill of a progression boss.