Random or not? Arena Queue 4.8k GS vs. 6.3k GS players.

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Originally Posted by theonemoh

Yea that's utter bullocks mate, and I think you know it. Arenas and battlegrounds are two entirely different instances requiring an entirely different type of gameplay. I could tell to you that arenas are for grinding rating and arena points to get gear for battlegrounds and my point of view would hold identical weight to yours. You could also say that RDF is meant to get gear and gather emblems for better gear but I use it for gold & enchanting material grinding. Old raids for some are useless, for others are a way to get transmog gear and for thirds a way to make 1K+ gold for 20 minutes. For some the open world is a place to quest while for others, it is a place to PvP. The game is different from player to player and nobody's point of view is more true than somebody else's. A lot of people cannot stand arenas and a lot of people cannot stand battlegrounds - whichever you are is irrelevant as I can assure you the meaning of the two differ from person to person. If you are an "I am holier than thou" arena elitist, that's fine, but if you rub it in people's cases as: "mine is the one true P.O.V.", then that makes you sort of a bumhole doesn't it?

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Players are free to decide to do whatever they like in the game, however we are talking about the purpose by design from blizzard. You can say to you dungeons are for gold and enchant, but by design they are for people to gear up and progress to raids. You can say " i do arena so i gear up and do bgs", however just looking at the rewards you get from both activity is obvious you are suppose to do BG to get basic PVP gear and then progress to Arena. There is other things that clearly indicate that as well. For example the fact you can do BGs at low level from the start of the season and there is no competitive titles, while arena season start later on when people have farmed their BG gear and there is rating ladder for it. Obviously different people like to do different activities, but that don't mean Blizzard didn't design this activities with specific purpose.

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Originally Posted by Skoobydoo

Players are free to decide to do whatever they like in the game, however we are talking about the purpose by design from blizzard. You can say to you dungeons are for gold and enchant, but by design they are for people to gear up and progress to raids. You can say " i do arena so i gear up and do bgs", however just looking at the rewards you get from both activity is obvious you are suppose to do BG to get basic PVP gear and then progress to Arena. There is other things that clearly indicate that as well. For example the fact you can do BGs at low level from the start of the season and there is no competitive titles, while arena season start later on when people have farmed their BG gear and there is rating ladder for it. Obviously different people like to do different activities, but that don't mean Blizzard didn't design this activities with specific purpose.

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/cough Battlemaster
/cough Justicar

If we speak about OG blizzard, blizzard designed battlegrounds before they even thought of arenas and battlegrounds were the one and only form of a non-open world PVP environment. Back in classic retail, you got battleground honor to get better at battlegrounds, not at arenas. Supply and demand for a smaller more tournament-like environment fights birthed the first arenas in TBC, but their creation was never supposed to push back the credibility of battlegrounds. Same is true in WOTLK. You can get up to relentless gear with just playing battlegrounds period. That arenas provide higher rewards doesn't equate to: "battlegrounds' only purpose is for you to get honor", which is what Skuddy was aggressively and insistingly going on about.

The whole design of the game offers flexibility of choice to maintain peoples' interests for a longer period of time. A lowbie will enter the arena while a BiS will enter a battleground after being tired of arenas. The purpose of everything in the game in general is to stall and accumulate engagement time. They throw you into an open world and tell you: "do whatever you want".

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Originally Posted by theonemoh

/cough Battlemaster
/cough Justicar

If we speak about OG blizzard, blizzard designed battlegrounds before they even thought of arenas and battlegrounds were the one and only form of a non-open world PVP environment. Back in classic retail, you got battleground honor to get better at battlegrounds, not at arenas. Supply and demand for a smaller more tournament-like environment fights birthed the first arenas in TBC, but their creation was never supposed to push back the credibility of battlegrounds. Same is true in WOTLK. You can get up to relentless gear with just playing battlegrounds period. That arenas provide higher rewards doesn't equate to: "battlegrounds' only purpose is for you to get honor", which is what Skuddy was aggressively and insistingly going on about.

The whole design of the game offers flexibility of choice to maintain peoples' interests for a longer period of time. A lowbie will enter the arena while a BiS will enter a battleground after being tired of arenas. The purpose of everything in the game in general is to stall and accumulate engagement time. They throw you into an open world and tell you: "do whatever you want".

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I said competitive titles. Battlemaster and Justicar are not competitive titles, anyone can get them as long as he just put some time into bgs, while arena title are limited and only for top % players of each season.

We are talking about WOTLK not vanilla. Skuddy is insisting that general purpose of BG are to farm honor, he didn't say that they exist only for honor. Obviously you can do them for fun or for whatever other reason you can come up with, but they exist to farm honor and this is why most players queue for BGs. You are right you can get Relentless set with bgs only, but what only make my point stronger because relentless is previous season gear. To progress to current WF set you have to do arena, regardless if you like arena or not. You even need arena rating for some of the off parts that cost only honor. Each player can do whatever he like to do with his character, but you cant deny basic game design that Blizzard have put into the game. And no they don't throw you into the game and tell you "do what you want", because for both PVE and PVP there is progression path designed and its very obvious. I don't understand how can you guys keep arguing for something as basic as the purpose or BGs and Dungeons. Now we need someone to come tell us that questing purpose is not to level and leveling is just some side bonus we get....

At least 90% of the people I see in bgs have 0 use for honor, so I guess they are all playing the game wrong? Someone has to tell them that they are wasting their time and not understanding what bgs were designed for, I guess...

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Originally Posted by Allylilith

At least 90% of the people I see in bgs have 0 use for honor, so I guess they are all playing the game wrong? Someone has to tell them that they are wasting their time and not understanding what bgs were designed for, I guess...

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You are your wild statistics, 90% of bg players dont need honor and 98% of arena players are full donors.....

Doing bgs for fun or for whatever other reason you have don't mean their purpose is not to farm honor by design. The two are not mutually exclusive for god sake. Also you see a lot of geared players because you are in the highest gs bracker, something that Blizzard didn't design you know and its custom change on Warmane. Before they added the GS brackets most of the time you bgs was full of players around 5k gs.

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Originally Posted by theonemoh

Yea that's utter bullocks mate, and I think you know it. Arenas and battlegrounds are two entirely different instances requiring an entirely different type of gameplay. I could tell to you that arenas are for grinding rating and arena points to get gear for battlegrounds and my point of view would hold identical weight to yours. You could also say that RDF is meant to get gear and gather emblems for better gear but I use it for gold & enchanting material grinding. Old raids for some are useless, for others are a way to get transmog gear and for thirds a way to make 1K+ gold for 20 minutes. For some the open world is a place to quest while for others, it is a place to PvP. The game is different from player to player and nobody's point of view is more true than somebody else's. A lot of people cannot stand arenas and a lot of people cannot stand battlegrounds - whichever you are is irrelevant as I can assure you the meaning of the two differ from person to person. If you are an "I am holier than thou" arena elitist, that's fine, but if you rub it in people's cases as: "mine is the one true P.O.V.", then that makes you sort of a bumhole doesn't it?

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I don't do bg's nor arenas. and you could tell me that, but you'd be wrong, at least on wotlk. arenas are the competitive part of wotlk pvp. where you're suppose to face people close to your own rating. bg's are a random animal, while not as random now with the gear brackets, they're still no where near as competitive as arenas. as i said before, if we had rated arenas that would be a different story.

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Originally Posted by Skuddy

I don't do bg's nor arenas. and you could tell me that, but you'd be wrong, at least on wotlk. arenas are the competitive part of wotlk pvp. where you're suppose to face people close to your own rating. bg's are a random animal, while not as random now with the gear brackets, they're still no where near as competitive as arenas. as i said before, if we had rated arenas that would be a different story.

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You could tell me I'm wrong and you'd be wrong because I say so. Your point is? If you don't play battlegrounds nor arenas, your opinion is frankly uneducated and oblivious to a 10v10 GvG WG or 30v30 GvG AV. Rated battlegrounds are battlegrounds... with ratings. Battlegrounds with some numbers behind them. Still battlegrounds. Just with ratings. Competitiveness in arena is utter bullocks as well where some comps just obliterate others. The comp that obliterates most comps by default is topping the rankings. If you don't believe that; check the Icecrown rank-list. ( https://imgur.com/a/yh4ZdCE ) A true competitive environment wouldn't have ratios like 100:1. If rating = skill, then the highest rating you acquire, the higher the skill of the opposite team becomes. "Competitive arenas" are INSANE MMR drops, followed by name-changes before you get reported and banned and then, sweet sweet title rewards. Thus, competitiveness in arenas is a joke that isn't even humorous. Wins he who can fight the same team 15 times in a row and make them all seem as if they are legitimate fights by taking some damage. Of course, with 70% of the fights occurring after midnight ST when it is easy to snipe the same people.

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Originally Posted by theonemoh

You could tell me I'm wrong and you'd be wrong because I say so. Your point is? If you don't play battlegrounds nor arenas, your opinion is frankly uneducated and oblivious to a 10v10 GvG WG or 30v30 GvG AV. Rated battlegrounds are battlegrounds... with ratings. Battlegrounds with some numbers behind them. Still battlegrounds. Just with ratings. Competitiveness in arena is utter bullocks as well where some comps just obliterate others. The comp that obliterates most comps by default is topping the rankings. If you don't believe that; check the Icecrown rank-list. ( https://imgur.com/a/yh4ZdCE ) A true competitive environment wouldn't have ratios like 100:1. If rating = skill, then the highest rating you acquire, the higher the skill of the opposite team becomes. "Competitive arenas" are INSANE MMR drops, followed by name-changes before you get reported and banned and then, sweet sweet title rewards. Thus, competitiveness in arenas is a joke that isn't even humorous. Wins he who can fight the same team 15 times in a row and make them all seem as if they are legitimate fights by taking some damage. Of course, with 70% of the fights occurring after midnight ST when it is easy to snipe the same people.

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People who talk about arenas like you shouldnt be even supposed to talk about PvP.
Ah, btw, out of the 3 teams you showed, 2 are the same guy that is the top warrior since ages on blackrock/icecrown/arena-tournament and the left one is probably some alt of another well-known top player.

Insane mmr drops and rename, sorry to say it's not working like that anymore you're living like 1 year ago.

70% of the fights occuring after midnight.. Wait what? LOL.

You just sound like s special snowflake that cant figure out that he just dont know how to play the game, BUT HEY ARENAS NO COMPETITION cause random bull**** trowed in a post, when no clue of what you're talking about.

>thinking battlegrounds are relevant
>talks about the arena scene like he knows stuff about the ladder, clearly doesnt
oh boy

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Originally Posted by Skoobydoo

Players are free to decide to do whatever they like in the game, however we are talking about the purpose by design from blizzard. You can say to you dungeons are for gold and enchant, but by design they are for people to gear up and progress to raids. You can say " i do arena so i gear up and do bgs", however just looking at the rewards you get from both activity is obvious you are suppose to do BG to get basic PVP gear and then progress to Arena. There is other things that clearly indicate that as well. For example the fact you can do BGs at low level from the start of the season and there is no competitive titles, while arena season start later on when people have farmed their BG gear and there is rating ladder for it. Obviously different people like to do different activities, but that don't mean Blizzard didn't design this activities with specific purpose.

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pvp isnt all about gearing...

"Merged Bgs are fair blablabla"
I just logged to me dk on Blackrock and forgot how to play him after a few motnhs of not playing. I "suffered through the alliance bg que" and after a few minutes I got an invite into IOC and my biggest problem in the bg was that the hordes died too fast for me to spread my op diseases. From this perspective it looks even worse than from lordaeron horde. We completely outgeared the horde and there was just no way that they could do anything to win that bg. I suck at dk and have barely any play time on him, I still ended up in top 5 of killing blows, which is just impossible on my horde lordaeron warrior which I play pretty good, so please just stop with your "Merge helped everyone and makes bgs more balanced for lordaeron players and the only issue is that alliance has too long ques"

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Originally Posted by Pooppickle

pvp isnt all about gearing...

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Ok.....who said it is and what does that have to do with the discussion is general purpose of BG to farm honor?

Just throwing it out here but what i got from this whole thread is that Lordaeron players don`t like arenas versus better geared Icecrown players.
Here is a little thing about crossrealm from what warmane stated:

[We are currently finishing up Blackrocks final changes, it will also join the WoTLK battlegroup in the next couple of days. When this is complete, we will also be making a few additional changes to Crossrealm:
"- The Arena queue system will prioritize matches against players from your own realm. Only after a set amount of time, it should start looking for opponents elsewhere. (This part went live on the 13th of February)"]

If this is implemented from 13th of Feb (We are in 29th March), it means, by my understanding, that you will be matched against people from crossrealm if you don`t find a team from your server to compete against. Depending on that "set amout of time" that is configured by warmane (probably it is 5 minutes or something idk) only after that amount of time spent in queue not finding a team from your realm to fight against.

So does this mean that the problem the OP ,and others from Lordaeron that are not ok with crossrealm vs better geared people, are facing is that there is lack of Arena / PvP players on Lordaeron?

Because, in my undertsanding of that rule for crossrealm, if there are enough teams in arena queue from your realm ( same rating w/e) you should have priority matchmaking agains them, if there are not enough teams, to be honest, that means this whole post and complaining about Icecrown players is just pointless complaining.

When I play arenas I mostly get instant invites against Icecrown/Blackrock players, even though I am from lordaeron, so I am not sure how their system works