Haste and BiS Fury warrs

Hello.

i would like to know (and discuss) whether or not HASTE is a viable gemming (+10 str +10 haste) option once you reach BiS as a Fwarr.

the reason for this is that going for the yellow socket where it gives decent strenght leaves us with either +10 str +10 crit or the haste instead of crit one (both orange gems = ametrine)

also, when BiS, warrs already have both arp (1400) and crit (55%) caps (check this guide for WHY 55% is the crit cap: http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=78305)

so.. a few things about haste and warriors:

1- it will NOT reduce GCD, thats for casters.
2- it SHOULD NOT reduce slam cast (havent checked this, but i would not cast a slam during a fight unless i got the instant proc anyway)
3- it WILL lower the time between our auto atacks (melee swings)

so here's the deal. HEROIC STRIKE (the MUST SPAM ability for a fury warr) procs on MELEE SWING. so, more haste, more auto atacks, more HS.

this is the THEORY and i would like some healthy discussion about the topic. what do you guys think? is it worth the gems or should just go full str?

The crit cap isn't some static unchanging number, it relates to the hit table. Crits replace hits on the hit table, so more hit rating increases your crit cap, more Expertise (up to the cap) increases your crit cap, the crit soft cap you're talking about also only relates to white hits and not your specials.. As for Haste, it can surpass Crit when above the Crit cap but the only effect it has is increased auto/heroic strike damage.

There is some synergy to it with the Heroic Strike glyph however, giving rage feedback for HS crits. As for whether you should gem Haste over STR? That's nonsense, STR affects all of your damage and is supremely strong if you're armor pen capped with high crit. Once you're Armor Pen/Expertise capped your primary gem is 20 STR, you can possibly use 10str10haste for worthwhile socket bonuses.. Download Landsouls sheet and experiment.

Generally speaking, it is worth gemming for if you achieve an str socket bonus. Landsoul's spreadsheet is pretty clear about the stat weights here.

Is it worth gemming one +10str/+10haste gem? Probably not. The main factor to measure and even get any benefit out of it is the length of the fight. There's no value until you get the extra swing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bakkhos16

crit (55%) caps (check this guide for WHY 55% is the crit cap: http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=78305)

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Better take this thread.

crit caps about as irrelevant for fury as it'll get, it cuts crits value by <10%

haste is still better tho

In BiS gear the stat priority goes like this: Str>haste>crit
Go for 10str/10 hit on yellow sockets until hit capped. After that go for 10str/10haste on the rest of the yellow sockets.
All socket bonuses are worth it! Even when the yellow socket bonus is only +4agi its still better to go for the socket bonus with a Orange gem than using 20str w/o socket bonus.
Also, 23 haste enchant on back is better than the agility enchant.
Haste also scales well on aoe dmg because it makes ur cleave ability hit more frequently.

My Landsoul's spreadsheet:

http://i.imgur.com/7Bj7Qoi.png

Let me know when u find a gear setup that yields more DPS.

Crit Cap = 100% + 4.8% (boss crit reduction duo to level diference) - 24% Glancing - ( 27 + X (where X is ur total hit % from gear, talents, buffs)) = Y (how much crit u need for every auto attack to be a critical hit)
Lets say u have exactly 8% hit chance (cap for special abilities): 100 + 4.8 - 19 = 61.8%.
If u get more Hit from gear, that will increase the Crit Cap % aswell, example:
8.18% hit > 61.98% crit
9.61% hit > 66.41% crit
I know there is also 3% crit increase debuff from Ret paladin on the target, and that should reduce the crit cap to 58.8% (down from 61.8%), but i still prefer to get the cap without that buff/debuff.

As for BiS itemisation, gemming and enchants i found this to be the best one for me:
[Sanctified Ymirjar Lord's Helmet] - M [Chaotic Skyflare Diamond] + R [Fractured Cardinal Ruby] / 50ap20crit
[Penumbra Pendant] - O [Inscribed Ametrine]
[Sanctified Ymirjar Lord's Shoulderplates] - R [Bold Dragon's Eye] / 40ap15crit
[Vereesa's Dexterity] - R [Fractured Cardinal Ruby] / 23 Haste
[Sanctified Ymirjar Lord's Battleplate] - R [Bold Dragon's Eye] + [Nightmare Tear] / 10 to all stats
[Umbrage Armbands] - R [Bold Dragon's Eye] + R [Bold Cardinal Ruby] / 50ap
[Aldriana's Gloves of Secrecy] - O [Etched Ametrine] + R [Bold Cardinal Ruby] + R [Bold Cardinal Ruby] / 44ap
[Coldwraith Links] - O [Inscribed Ametrine] + R [Fractured Cardinal Ruby] + R [Fractured Cardinal Ruby]
[Sanctified Ymirjar Lord's Legplates] - O [Accurate Ametrine] + P [Puissant Dreadstone] / 75ap22crit
[Apocalypse's Advance] - R [Fractured Cardinal Ruby] + R [Fractured Cardinal Ruby] / 6agility + minor run speed
[Frostbrood Sapphire Ring] - R [Fractured Cardinal Ruby]
[Ashen Band of Endless Vengeance] - O [Etched Ametrine]
[Deathbringer's Will]
[Sharpened Twilight Scale]
[Shadowmourne] - R [Fractured Cardinal Ruby] + R [Fractured Cardinal Ruby] + R [Fractured Cardinal Ruby] / Zerk
[Glorenzelg, High-Blade of the Silver Hand] - R [Bold Cardinal Ruby] + R [Bold Cardinal Ruby] + R [Fractured Cardinal Ruby] / Zerk
[Fal'inrush, Defender of Quel'thalas] - R [Fractured Cardinal Ruby]

http://armory.warmane.com/character/...ecrown/summary
(i use 10exp10hit gem instead of 10str10hit gem in legs cos of this anoying expertise cap bug, if u dont care about couple of random dodges, dont use it)

Stats:
1400 Armor Penetration rating
62.05% Crit chance raid buffed
5.18% Haste rating
5.18% + 3% Hit chance
6575 Attack Power without any buffs - 2485 Strength
(6599 if u use 10str10hit gem in Legs - 2473 Strength)

As for gemming, I like going for socket bonuses on most classes. When it comes to Warriors, i think u should try and get that extra Crit/Haste from Ametrines, even tho those gem slots are in Agility items, since i feel like u can never have enough crit as Fury Warrior.
As for Crit VS Haste, u should get Crit untill u reach the Crit Cap (the one without 3% Ret Debuff on the target) and after that u should go for extra Haste.
When it comes to DPS, u will most likely never notice the diference since RNG will be the judge. Just try out couple of itemisations, gemming, and enchanting urself (test them for longer periods of time), see which one makes u feel like u are doin more DPS and keep it. Just dont go way off the edge with some wild builds i guess. :D

Once again keep in mind that the 'crit cap' with white hits only applies to off-hand white hits. Heroic Strike transforms mainhand white hits into yellow attacks (so no glancing, 8% hit only, better crit coeff, etc.).

The value of hit shouldn't be over-evaluated because it applies only to off-hand weaker white hits. Going above 8% isn't a good idea.

So you can't really have too much crit because anything above the 'white hit cap' is only wasted on offhand white hits. With a better crit coeff and deep wounds, that **** is good. Haste too when you have crit pretty much everywhere and all your caps (hit/exp/arp) you get more cleave and more deep wounds.