Glyph of Diseased and Wandering Plague, game mechanics advice.

Like title say i i need someone with good knowlage of game to explain me how this work together and not work together. I use class guide for Unholy PvE DPS by author Gnimo and i read carefull his part where he explain why this two both have negative effect on DMG,. He wrote in his Guide:

"-If u use Glyph of Disease, u will lose a lot of Wandering Plague procs on Single Target fight, and even more on multi target DPS.
Explanation: If ur diseases tick separetly, one after another (if u refresh them with PS > IT), they will both have chance to proc Wandering Plague since that talent has 1sec GCD. If u use Glyph of Disease to refresh diseases, they will tick in the same time so u will most likely have 50% less Wandering Plague procs.

(u can test this by doing PS > IT on a dummy and just watch ur diseases tick. u will see that sometimes after both Blood Plague and Frost Fever u have Wandering Plague proc. if u refresh ur diseases with Pestilence, u will see that ur diseases will tick in the same time and that u will always have only 1 Wandering Plague proc after they do, never 2)"

I get that but i notice and take some screenshots even if i dont have Glyph of Disease , but just spread it via Pestilance the 2 and 3 target get they disease's at max duration and tick at same time coz of that: https://imgur.com/a/bH8AwTg
Picture 1: i apply frost fever + blood plague and wait few sec for some duration and ticks go
picture 2 and 3 shows whos is pred via Pestilance ( no glyph ) on target 2 and 3 at max duration
at picture 4 i shows how on target 3 duration is is low and on primal target ( skull ) is nearly end but i just bounce Pestilance
and apply frost fever + blood plague to main taget skull again at full duration .. just with one pestilance again no glyph and the duration reset at picture 5
If i do all things correct then where is the point to not have Glyph of Diseased since without it when i spread disease's via Pestilance i get always max duration on target X and Star and they tick at same time always.. if this is correct then is Glyph of Diseased negative effect only main target Skull? and the rest will be no deference at all

You can only affect the main target with split diseases.
With or without the glyph, any secondary target that got hit by Pestilence will always have diseases ticking in the same time.
The AoE dmg loss part of what i said is mainly duo to Wandering Plague hitting everything in a 8 yard radius, so if you get 2 ticks on main target all of the other targets that are 8 yards arround the primary will also get hit 2 times. That is why its a DPS loss.
On top of IT PS BS doing almost same dmg as Pesti SS and giving 5 more runic power aswell.

In practicality it's just a waste of your fingers. If you lack DPS this is not really the way to increase it, especially if you are relatively new to UH. But if you are sure that you are squeezing out everything from your char, and still need more for whatever reason, sure, those 1.8%(or something) bonus dps is nice.

Thanks again for your time. Basicly if im not from perfectionists side of line . I will lose some dps via process on WP ( you say some like 1.8%) and a bit more from runic power loss but in the end if i can live with that and not squeezing like lemon all from this DK i can exchange it for a little more lazy comfort..
P.S. actually there is one side of loss to i forget one glyph less if i replace for Glyph of Disease.

Glyph of Disease doesn't reset the tick timers of your DoTs. So long as the Frost Fever and Blood Plague were applied individually, they'll maintain their separate tick timers when refreshed via Glyph of Disease's effect.

Saying that 1.8, or any % of dps increase is not a big deal is not a healthy mindset.
Why dont u simply just auto attack without using spells?
Again, Glyph of Icy Touch will increase the DMG of Frost Fever and Wandering Plague.
Not using Glyph of Disease will increase Wandering Plague proc.
IT + PS + BS will do arround the same dmg as Pesti + SS (more dmg if SS is a normal hit), will give u 5 more runic power and will fill one extra gcd and reduce your downtime.
On fights where you have to switch targets and apply diseases manualy multiple times, Glyph of Disease is again a waste of glyph spot.
There is not a single benefit Glyph of Disease gives you, exept the fact that your rotation will be easyer (like its not easy enough alrdy).
The only reason why would anyone use Glyph of Disease would be if they played Armor Pen capped UDK, but in that case u might aswell delete ur char on the spot or go Frost.

Edit: Unholy DK has 2 main jobs in the raid.
First is to provide a 13% magic dmg increase on all targets arround you with the use of 1 spell.
Second is to provide a good aoe dmg pressure trough DnD and Disease DMG, and i dont see how arp helps there.
You never take UDK if u want high single target dmg.
All good UDKs that i saw and i know use both Strength gems and Glyph of Icy Touch.

I would argue that you gain more deeps out of disease glyph, refreshing both diseases right before downtimes, better positioning as you have more downtime that you can use, lighter on you so you can take more time to watch your procs and icds to gain those % back. On progression raids where you raid for extended periods, with lots of wipes and such, your results will be more consistent over time with "lighter" rotation. That was my point.

Rotation is easy enough alrdy. This game is all about practice and expirience, and if you get used to an "easyer" rotation, you are doing urself a bad favor.
The main reason i dont like playing Unholy sometimes is cos its dull, why would anyone want to play an even duller rotatiom blows my mind. On AoE fights Unholy is fun as hell, but Single Target? Nope.
How can a easyer, more boring rotation be fun?
If you dont have SHADOWMOURNE, using Glyph of Disease is the worst decision you can ever make.
And again, skipping Glyph of Icy Touch hurst your AoE dmg potential, regardless of your weapon, which is bad considering Unholy shines most there.
Im not here trying to preach my religion. And i dont care whatever you decide to chose, there are too many players that go for dumb choices only cos they "feel like its better", "have more fun with that", etc, so i saw a lot of "interesting" builds. If you want to do lower dps or be a bad player, be my guest. I tested out both and there is no question about it. There are elitiest guides from back than and sims that again, prove my point.
There is nothing to argue here, and im simply getting tired of all the bad advices when it comes to the class forums.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by angrylol

I would argue that you gain more deeps out of disease glyph, refreshing both diseases right before downtimes, better positioning as you have more downtime that you can use, lighter on you so you can take more time to watch your procs and icds to gain those % back. On progression raids where you raid for extended periods, with lots of wipes and such, your results will be more consistent over time with "lighter" rotation. That was my point.

---

There's no realistic way of getting more dps with GoD when compared to the other options unh has. Whatever glyph you decide to replace for it will result in a dps loss (Darh Death, Icy Touch and Ghoul). There's no argument to be made for "progression" since when you're actually progressing with a guild on some particular encounter you want to be better suited for that encounter. Dks don't really have any particularly situational glyphs aside from DnD and that one provides no utility, just extra dps. Ergo, aside from improving your dps in any way you can there's nothing else to do when progressing. Naturally it follows that Glyph of Disease is a complete waste of a glyph slot and there's literally no excuse to use it.

I will never drop my Glyph of disease. Those 150 dps is just not worth the effort. And I just can't see where is that AoE that's so important. It makes bursts after downtime 3 secs faster, that means you can dish out all your runes before some Defiles and etc, you can dish out all runes on oozes before pushback, there are some critical points where that higher dps is so much more important than overall dps.

Sure squeezeing it is cool and good, yeah. But hell, I have cleared 25hc ICC some 500 times by now, RS close to that. If raid wipes on enrage, problem is somewhere far from dps. Something that just makes you more efficient overall, especially if you are new or not a robot. "Naturally it follows that Glyph of Disease is a complete waste of a glyph slot and there's literally no excuse to use it." is just from someone who has seen sims and training dummy instead of doing some raiding.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by angrylol

I will never drop my Glyph of disease. Those 150 dps is just not worth the effort.

---

Stick to whatever you wish. I have no grudge against people running the dumbest specs, glyphs, enchants, gems or anything else that can be screwed up. What I have an issue with is exactly what I made a comment for.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by angrylol

And I just can't see where is that AoE that's so important.

---

Really? I suppose in your 500 RS and ICC runs you've never delved into LK p2? Especially on no buff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by angrylol

It makes bursts after downtime 3 secs faster, that means you can dish out all your runes before some Defiles and etc, you can dish out all runes on oozes before pushback, there are some critical points where that higher dps is so much more important than overall dps.

---

??????????????????????????????????????????? The only difference there is that you'll be able to land some DCs earlier. That's it. Also if you're going to argue about critical points where higher DPS is important then you really should be using Glyph of DnD on LK, no? Valks are critical, no?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by angrylol

Sure squeezeing it is cool and good, yeah. But hell, I have cleared 25hc ICC some 500 times by now, RS close to that. If raid wipes on enrage, problem is somewhere far from dps. Something that just makes you more efficient overall, especially if you are new or not a robot.

---

It doesn't matter what wiped the raid. When you're going for progression, actual progression, not farming content you will want to maximise utility and/or damage. Since there's no utility you can improve as an unholy you will maximise dps. It's really easy to follow this train of thought. Improving efficiency of the raid on your part is precisely improving your dps as much as possible. There's no higher degree in difficulty from glyphing any of the other glyphs. You don't need an IQ of over 200 to play unholy without GoD lmao.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by angrylol

"Naturally it follows that Glyph of Disease is a complete waste of a glyph slot and there's literally no excuse to use it." is just from someone who has seen sims and training dummy instead of doing some raiding.

---

I've done more than enough of ICC and RS, buffed and unbuffed as either unh or frost to know what I'm talking about. Considering that my simmed fights support my claims and not yours, maybe it's time to l2p?

As a final note, if you're actually recommending to people to go for a dps drop of >100 for absolutely no gain then you don't really deserve to have the right to comment on any of the forums.

Alright you don't need to get so defensive.

We all know that progression is dps and gs. We know that people who can't just go in and do their rotation exactly 99.9% precise, know what and when to do, where and when to stand are just ******ed and don't deserve to post on forums. And, my god, if they even mention something that makes their class easier or prefers some other way to play!

I don't know why it's so hard do understand GoD, you dodn't provide a single scenario or reasons apart from "l2p", "no reason", "inferior". How could you? Seems you don't understand what "forums" are. And you don't need 200IQ for that either.

If you ask me, its not about dps... Its about mentality.

I really dont know how 20% extra DMG on Frost Fever and Wandering Plague on top of 40-50% more procs on single target is just 150dps increase.
If you did 100k dmg with 50 FF ticks you are missing 20k dmg for nothing. Also 50 ticks could be extra 20-25 WP ticks which is arround 40-50k extra dmg.
Total of 70k+ posible dmg u are losing.
Not to mention that you lose 5 runic power per rotation cycle which is 1 extra Death Coil per 3min fight.

Im not saying you have to do most dps/dmg your class can offer.
You dont. You can just auto attack and smash ur head on the keyboard for ultimate "fun" rotation.
Hell, i use couple ******ed gems and enchants such as +6 to all stats on my Feral cos it makes my stats look neat and cos i like all sockets matched. Do i recomend that kind of thing to someone else? No.
Even when i get asked why i do it, i say: "dont use this, its my own OCD haunting me".
But the most important thing, that **** doesnt make me lose almost any dps, everything exept 1 gem and 1 enchant is top tier.

Everyone can have their own builds, playstyle, whatever, but saying its better than the actual better and proved build, playstyle, whatever is mindblowing to me.

You can use spellpower sword as FDK dps as far as im consirned and say that u feel like you are doing more dmg, but dont preach that kind of a playstyle to a new player.

People that are reading the forums that are new to the game want to learn and become better at the game. Not all of them for sure, and there are some really dumb questions, but all I need is 1/100 to make me try to help that 1 guy as much as i can cos i was at his place long ago.

And you cant tell me that people cant follow the duration of 2 dots on the target, spam 3 spells one after another on top of that, and fail to watch mechanics.
Sure at start it might be hard, but saying thats the reason to make the rotation easyer (this is the dumbest argument btw, instead of using 2 spells to refresh dots u use 1, and that is somehow game changing) is dumb. Thats why there are dungeons with easy mechanics and raids before ICC hc to make u learn how to play ur class while moving, watching other ****, and so on...

P.S. In which universe Fun means less things to do and track? For me, the harder the rotation, more dun i have, and more rewarding it feels when u manage to perfect it each fight, regardless of rng.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by angrylol

Alright you don't need to get so defensive.

---

I am making fun of you at this point, not being defensive in case you haven't noticed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by angrylol

We all know that progression is dps and gs. We know that people who can't just go in and do their rotation exactly 99.9% precise, know what and when to do, where and when to stand are just ******ed and don't deserve to post on forums. And, my god, if they even mention something that makes their class easier or prefers some other way to play!

---

This simply isn't what I said. Don't act as if you didn't understand what I wrote. I said that you don't deserve the right to post since what you're saying is factually wrong, namely this thing:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by angrylol

I would argue that you gain more deeps out of disease glyph, refreshing both diseases right before downtimes, better positioning as you have more downtime that you can use, lighter on you so you can take more time to watch your procs and icds to gain those % back.

---

It will not result in gaining more dps compared to the other glyph choices whether it be on single target or on multi target. Having a preffered way to play is just fine. Claiming it'll provide better results compared to the long established (and more importantly empirically proven) best way of playing is just stupid. Makes the class easier :D :D ? Yeah, unholy didn't have enough free GCDs as it is, let's add another one. I'll give you that I suppose, but going from 2 button presses to 1 isn't a big deal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by angrylol

I don't know why it's so hard do understand GoD, you dodn't provide a single scenario or reasons apart from "l2p", "no reason", "inferior". How could you? Seems you don't understand what "forums" are. And you don't need 200IQ for that either.

---

I didn't provide you with scenarios where it's weaker? Really? I suppose you missed the mention of RS and LK p2? In case those weren't clear enough I meant val'kyr and embers. If you need more for DnD technically it's possible to make use of it on Lady and Marrowgar. In a general case scenario any time you have more than 2 targets that are worthwhile and will stay up for a certain period of time using DnD is better than a SS + BS. As for Dark Death it just sims ahead, there's really no scenario I should be giving as justification for this. It's straight up a better glyph and so are Ghoul and IT.

Now can you cut the bs?

RS embers is far from good example, as you will dps Halion, spread diseases and drop dnd when embers are at some 60% health. How long it takes 60%-0%? If you are super lucky(RNG) you get 2 extra wandering plague ticks where it may or may not matter. And you at some point will have to choose - refresh diesease on Halion or use DND or spread it from ember with blood rune and use blood tap to drop dnd.

And sure, on Valkyrs its more uselful, however there is same underlying problem as on Embers, diseases will fall off from LK or you sacrifice that extra wandering plague ticks for one cycle. This sure can play role when people are doing no buff run and such.

But that's not what sims tell you. Because sims are not accurate depiction of what actually happens in raids. It's great tool nonetheless, but it's not smart to just parrot whatever it tells you as some absolute truth.

GoD won't give you some direct %dmg increase as IT glyph does "on paper". But it enables higher efficiency, better recovery from mistakes and more consistent results considering boss mechanics with downtimes. And in this scenario it's more dps than 1/5 bigger dot ticks and few more WP procs.

Oh and when I do those no buff icc runs I really need some guide to tell me this. [this is a sarcasm]

I'm telling legit strategy on-topic, for someone why has a question and I don't think you are doing him any favour with "licherally no rights to tell anything because I can double click on my sim". Get out of here. At least Gnimo did some thinking and some legit reason that's rooted in reality to not use GoD. And sure, the better you become the less value GoD has for you, except if you are like me and farm heroics laid back and chill when your spells just flow instead of reciting "IT-PS-BS..." in your head.