Disrupting Gameplay needs improvement

So i wanted to point the use of the reports about disrupting gameplay and that is being abused.
Let me explain what happened and you judge if it is unfair or not.

We were in PoS and a guy (let's call him Zedd) was overpulling and was wiping us constantly because we all weren't much geared. We were telling him to stop but he was having fun, one guy left the group, the rest of us tried to vote kick zedd but it bugged so we couldn't kick him. So we had an argument and stopped playing asking from zedd to leave us. But he didn't. So because we didn't want to leave and get the debuff we just tped out and waited for zedd to leave us. But instead of that he made an SS at the right moment and when the chat suited him. While we didn't even bother or imagine of reporting him, he did the report so some of us got banned without even knowing. Also i wanted to note that i asked for a GM letting him know what happened but never got an answer. I am not mad for the ban, i just feel the system of reports is unfair and needs further improvement. In that way everyone can report anyone in any dungeon if he writes the right thing in chat and print the right SS. I just wanted to share my experience and thoughts about the report system.

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Originally Posted by Xrisqio

So because we didn't want to leave and get the debuff we just tped out and waited for zedd to leave us.

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While you can say he was a bad player and doing it wrong, this is what sets you in the wrong in the situation and what would get you the ban. Being a bad player/one who doesn't minds wiping repeatedly isn't against the rules, but refusing to continue a run while also demanding someone else leaves so you can avoid a debuff is. You can claim context or something else, but in the end of the day it was you and the other two who disrupted gameplay by staying in the group but refusing to play. It had nothing to do with screenshots at the right time.

So basically, if i'd queue as tank with random items, cloth, leather, intellect items, if i'd use only use single target spells with whole packs of mobs on me, if i'd take the first boss to the second boss with not a single regard towards the others, that wouldn't count as disrupting gameplay? I'd be only a "bad player", yes? So if the guys would refuse to play because of me, I could report them and get them banned?

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Originally Posted by BacchusTatoo

So basically, if i'd queue as tank with random items, cloth, leather, intellect items, if i'd use only use single target spells with whole packs of mobs on me, if i'd take the first boss to the second boss with not a single regard towards the others, that wouldn't count as disrupting gameplay? I'd be only a "bad player", yes? So if the guys would refuse to play because of me, I could report them and get them banned?

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Yes? Unfortunately our mind reading equipment is still in maintenance, so we can't call if someone is just bad or wanting to troll and waste their time. Not to mention "being bad" isn't a definite measure when you get people wanting 10k "GS" to do stuff. Should people who refuse to play with someone in RDF because they aren't the "right" class or specialization or don't have the "right" GS (using GS should be the first sign you should leave anyway...) be allowed to do it?

If you don't like the way someone is playing you either kick them or leave. Sitting your *** and demanding them to leave, no matter your excuse for it, sets you in the wrong side. Coming up with ridiculous examples isn't going to sway that.

I understand what you saying but if the bug didn't persist with vote to kick there wouldn't be any problem. 3 out of 4 people wanted him out. That's democracy. But cause of the bug that happens many times when someone leaves, problems are created.

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Originally Posted by Xrisqio

I understand what you saying but if the bug didn't persist with vote to kick there wouldn't be any problem. 3 out of 4 people wanted him out. That's democracy. But cause of the bug that happens many times when someone leaves, problems are created.

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Yes, I read about that. It's unfortunate that it got bugged, but that puts you in the other option: "or leave." There's even less we can do to verify that some bug claim was in fact real, and, as is the norm on any online game, a bug isn't an excuse to break the general rules. No matter what, it remains that you three were the ones refusing to play to force the other to leave.

Ok i get what you saying, all this happened in a period of 20 seconds, after that me and another guy left, so for that thing i got banned for 2 days. Fair enough.
I'll give you an example of a chat:
i tp out while we disaggree and the guy says "come in and contiune because i will report you" and i leave the group after 10 seconds, then that will get me banned for 2 days? Obviously that guy posted some screeshots, if you check that screenshots you will see that all this conv happened in undrer half a minute. We disrupted his gameplay for 20 seconds and he did disrupt ours for 45 mins. We get banned just because he did the SS and the GM banned didn't even bother to look the clock on the ss or i guess he did just one ss. All i want to say the system of judge you have is unfair and bad. Ask for more proof, for more SS's so you can see that indeed a player consumed another player's time and did disrupt his gameplay. We invest a lot of time on servers. Some people donate more some less. I understand GMs aren't paid prolly but some things are so obvious that even a kid could understand them. To ban a player just to "close" the subject is inappropriate. You keep saying about "bad player" while i'm taking for a bad on purpose behavior. Because when someone wipes the group and then laughs one and two and three times then that is not a bad player but a bad behavior. I understand you trying to defend the warmane's staff decision but you looking the tree and not the woods behind it. I hope you get to the point of looking more in depth before you ban another player again.

I have a question, from my understanding its against the rules when someone refuses to leave the dungeongroup and take the debuff and stays idle/afk demanding a votekick?

yes Nidhogger, but that situation over here was totally different.

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Originally Posted by Xrisqio

Ok i get what you saying, all this happened in a period of 20 seconds, after that me and another guy left, so for that thing i got banned for 2 days. Fair enough.
I'll give you an example of a chat:
i tp out while we disaggree and the guy says "come in and contiune because i will report you" and i leave the group after 10 seconds, then that will get me banned for 2 days? Obviously that guy posted some screeshots, if you check that screenshots you will see that all this conv happened in undrer half a minute. We disrupted his gameplay for 20 seconds and he did disrupt ours for 45 mins. We get banned just because he did the SS and the GM banned didn't even bother to look the clock on the ss or i guess he did just one ss. All i want to say the system of judge you have is unfair and bad. Ask for more proof, for more SS's so you can see that indeed a player consumed another player's time and did disrupt his gameplay. We invest a lot of time on servers. Some people donate more some less. I understand GMs aren't paid prolly but some things are so obvious that even a kid could understand them. To ban a player just to "close" the subject is inappropriate. You keep saying about "bad player" while i'm taking for a bad on purpose behavior. Because when someone wipes the group and then laughs one and two and three times then that is not a bad player but a bad behavior. I understand you trying to defend the warmane's staff decision but you looking the tree and not the woods behind it. I hope you get to the point of looking more in depth before you ban another player again.

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The amount of time you took while disrupting the rules is completely irrelevant, I have no idea why do you even bring it up. The only important thing is the fact itself - you did break it, and you got punished for it. Fair and square.

Pulling too many mobs, using the wrong spells or using a stupid strategy is not in any way against the rules (should we... ban the newcomers as well?). Laughing is not against the rules either. The second you noticed him doing any of that, you could have asked him to stop. If he doesn't listen, you kick him. A matter of 5 minutes, tops. It's you who was dumb enough to LET the guy waste 45 minutes of your time, not the other way around.

Bugs suck, I agree. Though, you have to understand that they happen in all games and accept it, they are inevitable. As Obnoxious mentioned, a bug is not a free pass to break the rules. What you should have done at THAT point is simply take the deserter instead and report the bug in bugtracker so it would get fixed in the future. Also, this "forced" deserter is the fault of a bug that eventually will be fixed - not the report system.

You bring up kids who should understand this, but you yourself act as a kid. A guy is being an ******* to you, so your response is to be an ******* to him? No, that's not how it's supposed to work. This is not kindergarden, grow up.

As for the suggestion itself, demanding more proof, such as a video, would create another problem - actually guilty players would get away with it way more frequently, because majority of people are not recording their gameplay 24/7. When a rule is being broken, most often it's the best you can do is to provide screenshots. If that weren't enough, there would be a lot more negative players who know they can get away with it anyway.

Though even with a full video, you would still be guilty and you would still be banned. Because you objectively broke the rules, therefore you deserve to be punished.

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Originally Posted by Xrisqio

yes Nidhogger, but that situation over here was totally different.

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Actions of another person and a server's bug does not make the situation different. Not even kind of.

Yes ok to all this, so just change the rule to "it is forbidden to leave a dungeon" or disable the button. If we disagree in a group you understand that it's impossible to leave immediately, all people talk and write something to the chat before doing anything, staying, leaving or tping out. So i just ask when someone gives proof, the proof should show that he didn't leave after 1 minute at least! i mean we teleported out while talking and after seeing that this is not going anywhere. so something like 20 seconds passed and then after one guy already left, me and another one just teleported out and left. It's really frustrating that you don't wanna understand the difference.

A ss should be provided before and after at least with a difference of some time (1 min or so)..

if for example i got a pop up dungeon and a guy that is flying while the dungeon poped is still in air, i mousover the portrait, it says he is in ashnevale e.g. i write in chat "come in or i report" and i ss, i upload the ss, Boom banned. fair. i just ask for more evidence of an indeed disruptive gameplay.. i'm not talking for a video, just 2 ss show that it indeed happened in a period of time. For god's sake if you believe that what i'm saying is childish and you can't understand the problem of that 1 screenshot then ok there is nothing for me to say here, no GM will say ever "ok yes we were mistaken" (and i speak in general). End of story for me, didn't expect much before i start that topic, didn't ask for unban just pointed how a report can be exploited and false.

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Originally Posted by Xrisqio

Yes ok to all this, so just change the rule to "it is forbidden to leave a dungeon" or disable the button. If we disagree in a group you understand that it's impossible to leave immediately, all people talk and write something to the chat before doing anything, staying, leaving or tping out. So i just ask when someone gives proof, the proof should show that he didn't leave after 1 minute at least! i mean we teleported out while talking and after seeing that this is not going anywhere. so something like 20 seconds passed and then after one guy already left, me and another one just teleported out and left. It's really frustrating that you don't wanna understand the difference.

A ss should be provided before and after at least with a difference of some time (1 min or so)..

if for example i got a pop up dungeon and a guy that is flying while the dungeon poped is still in air, i mousover the portrait, it says he is in ashnevale e.g. i write in chat "come in or i report" and i ss, i upload the ss, Boom banned. fair. i just ask for more evidence of an indeed disruptive gameplay.. i'm not talking for a video, just 2 ss show that it indeed happened in a period of time. For god's sake if you believe that what i'm saying is childish and you can't understand the problem of that 1 screenshot then ok there is nothing for me to say here, no GM will say ever "ok yes we were mistaken" (and i speak in general). End of story for me, didn't expect much before i start that topic, didn't ask for unban just pointed how a report can be exploited and false.

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Or, you know, don't leave the dungeon and refuse to play to force someone else to leave in the first place? You say its frustrating, while you refuse to understand that you were the one who broke a simple and clear rule. You received a ban for something you did do, there was no false ban and no exploiting. The most you can say is someone was petty and made a report anyway. Whatever screenshot was provided it had to show you not in the dungeon and refusing to go back, saying you wouldn't or whatever. If you impersonate Staff "just for 10 seconds" or "as a joke" you will get the same punishment as if you "meant it" or did it for a long period of time. The idea is don't do it, at all. There's no need for "timelapse screenshots" if you don't do it in the first place.

Ah I know it was different but I reported someone who did that just that and got the reply that since we( the group) were able to vote kick him it wasnt "disrupting gameplay" which imo doesnt make any sense. Should we just have let him keep wasting our time? Is there a specific amount of time we must wait before it counts as disrupting gameplay? Sry if its not about the original topic I just cant quite see the logic in the answer.

The next time you find an *** like this guy was, let him pull everything, let hmi die, don't resurrect him and continue the dungeon normally. He'll eventually run out of patience because he'll have to walk into the instance.