WotLK [Guide] Arms PvP Warrior

[Ricks2]

Well, this is quite curious because in another thread you said that it's perfectly fine to shadowstep a charge on wotlk while I tought it was just a molten bug.

I'm talking about moltens Wotlk, since you clearly mentioned cataclysm mechanics (atleast i thought you did). I'm not playing cataclysm here, so i don't know if the PvP delay works or not. I'm only playing wotlk, where i can tell you for sure the PvP ability delay isn't working at all.

The Fok is not to apply the slowing poison, but to deal some damage even when you stay in the deadzone. I don't know if this is the best tatic but I've seen some rogues doing it on me.

That's a quite aweful tactic to be honest, since you wanna pool some energy when you go in for the next burst. If you end up spamming FoK then you deal minor dmg while completely emptying your energy bar, leaving you pretty much defenseless.

[mxkrtg]

He is talking about using berserker rage to remove gouge and the trinket to get out of blind. And I think he meant just to get far enough to charge/intercept the rogue, not to backpedal.

Yes, that is exactly what i mean. I should have said "back away" or "get some distance".

P.s.: actually the trinket can be used to get out of the first kidney if you are dueling against a muti rogue, because the deadly poison dot will remove istantly the eventual blind later.

Assuming you know the spec of the rogue (and that is why i said "assuming you have no dots or damaging poisons on you". For example if the rogues plays in 2v2 with a priest, you will probably have a curse on you that will remove blind). If you are in the dark, then i think it's better to keep your trinket, since a 2nd opening will probably kill you.

I don't think it's a useful tatic, a good rogue will be able to stay in the deadzone, unless you use bladestorm to remove the slowing poison and get in the charge range but, again, a good rogue can predict it and shadowstep the charge or the bladestorm, in order to disarm and to slow you again. They can do it just staying in the deadzone and spamming fan of knives.

I agree with you. An experienced rogue will be able to predict and counter your moves, that is why you should be ready to alter your playstyle. Getting some stuns on the rogue is vital, so you can use various "tricks" to get that distance to charge (fear, racials like stomp, bladestorm, intercept/intervene, even piercing howl--trinket--charge). On the other hand, if you find it difficult to do so, don't keep trying it.

In my epxerience, good rogues will always
-Dodge on bladestorm, if bladestorm is used as an offencive move.
-Dismantle when i pop retaliation
-Stay in deadzone with various tricks (shadowstep, sprint, stuns-even a 1sec gauge will allow the rogue to keep up with your movement).

THe only way to beat an experienced rogue,with good gear, is in my experience, to "force" a dismantle on your bladestorm, by using bladestorm as a way to gain mobility.
-if the rogues dismantles, than you have retaliation
-if the rogues pops his dodge ability, you will have to move away from him, forcing him to waste a cooldown by either re-sprinting, shadowstepping and dismantle. If he does not, you can get some distance, cancel bladestorm and charge/intercept. There you go, you have a clear hit :)

[Spomeni]

#showtooltip Bladestorm
/cast Auto Attack
/cast Sweeping Strikes
/cast Bladestorm

Try this macro you can auto attack while in bs

[Auren]

-if the rogues pops his dodge ability, you will have to move away from him

Completly wrong, actually when against a rogue be aggressive on Evasion is a mandatory for Arms Warrior in PvP, despite have MS up on him or not.
When Rogue pop evasion and you've rend on him you'll have tons of Overpower proc that cant be missed/dodged, in that way you'r pressure will be way higher, intervene back & charge him during Evasion will allows you to put MS on him as he is stunned and cant dodge, with Overpower spamm you'll force the rogue to play defensive 99% of times or forcing some defensive cooldowns, that's why most of the skilled rogues pop evasion during their first open/stunlock, in order to not allow you to put rend/ms for Overpower spamm (Taste of Blood + Overpower spell)
Also, following your statement about cancelaura bladestorm during evasion it's not efficent unless you run 60 latency, that's because the time between "Cancelaura--->Intervene--->Charge" will take too much and rogue wont have problems with it. Only option for cancelaura against rogue is for stop/fear their partner and backup, that's why mostly of time times you use Bladestorm just for avoid stuns/reopen against them.
Any decent rogue will dismantle you on the last seconds of Bladestorm in order to make fall the Mortal Strike debuff on them

EDIT: I maybe got your original post wrong, cause reading it better i've noticed you talk about Bladestorm for mobility.

[Ricks2]

EDIT: I maybe got your original post wrong, cause reading it better i've noticed you talk about Bladestorm for mobility.

Yep, he wasn't talking about an arena situation (unless I'm the one getting it wrong here), he was reffering to 1v1's.

[mxkrtg]

Spoiler: Show

Completly wrong, actually when against a rogue be aggressive on Evasion is a mandatory for Arms Warrior in PvP, despite have MS up on him or not.
When Rogue pop evasion and you've rend on him you'll have tons of Overpower proc that cant be missed/dodged, in that way you'r pressure will be way higher, intervene back & charge him during Evasion will allows you to put MS on him as he is stunned and cant dodge, with Overpower spamm you'll force the rogue to play defensive 99% of times or forcing some defensive cooldowns, that's why most of the skilled rogues pop evasion during their first open/stunlock, in order to not allow you to put rend/ms for Overpower spamm (Taste of Blood + Overpower spell)
Also, following your statement about cancelaura bladestorm during evasion it's not efficent unless you run 60 latency, that's because the time between "Cancelaura--->Intervene--->Charge" will take too much and rogue wont have problems with it. Only option for cancelaura against rogue is for stop/fear their partner and backup, that's why mostly of time times you use Bladestorm just for avoid stuns/reopen against them.
Any decent rogue will dismantle you on the last seconds of Bladestorm in order to make fall the Mortal Strike debuff on them

EDIT: I maybe got your original post wrong, cause reading it better i've noticed you talk about Bladestorm for mobility.

yes you did, since i am talking about bladestorm.
When you do bladestorm, and the rogue pops his Evasion, there is no point keeping bladestorm up. That being the case, you will have to perform various actions.
One option will be to cancel your bladestorm and just use overpower. But why do that, if you can do something better?
Since the Evasion lasts for some time, getting some distance with bladestorm, then cancel it and charge will enable you to land more attacks: 1 auto attack and 1 MS, that will hit since the target is stunned. After this, you can use your overpower, since his Evasion will be probably still up.

About the latency: I do not agree with you. If you have your key bindings properly, you will be able to perfom the cancel+charge with no problems at all.

On a differenent matter, you gave me a good argument, speaking about latency. So I would like to share a small "trick":

Do not read if you have a problem with long texts, or you are not willing to test new things or think out of the box.

Spoiler: Show

Do not macro everything in one button!!
Why?
Because it's slower than performing the same action with 2 keys.
Let me explain this with an example:

Shield bash:
On most cases, you will run with a two handed weapon, and you will DPS with it. Of course, you will probably have a macro to shield bash a spell/heal, that looks like:
/equip 1h
/equip shield
/cast shield bash
on one specific key, lets say key "1"

Whats wrong with that?

Well, it's slower than having this sequence keybinded to "1"
/equip 1h
/equip shield
and shield bash on 2

SO, in the 1st case, you just spam button "1" and you will need 1 second to actually cast shield bash (time is just an example).

In the 2nd case, you will have to push button "1", then button "2", and the shield bash will hit in around 0.75 seconds

So if you have the luxury of having more free, easy accesible buttons, you might want to consider this options. The difference is not that big, but it can be a life-saver if you have more lag than your opponent or if you perfom a long macro.

For example
/cancel aura bladestorm
/equip 1h
/equip shield
/cast shield bash

will require 1.5 seconds binding it in 1 button.

whereas if you use 3 buttons, it will result in only 1 second.

If you have good eye to finger co-ordination you can try that and see the difference for yourself.

[Panofsky]

Switching between two handed weapon and one handed weapon + shield is not affected by the global cooldown (it has been for a short period on molten but the bug has been fixed), so I don't agree with you. Not to mention that:
- even if you put the switch + defstance + /cast spellname on your defensive cooldowns macro, it's always useful to have a keybind dedicated only to the switch between two handed and one handed + shield.
- if you have only a keybind for the switch and you haven't got the full macro for the defensive cooldowns, you will be forced to put the switch macro next to the keybind dedicated to all your abilities which require a shiled to be used, including the shield bash. To press two keybinds instead of one may result in a mistake in some critical situations, where you can miss one of the keybinds and activate your defensive cooldown too late.

@Ricks: I'm talking about wotlk and it happened in duel that some rogues have been able to shadowstep my charge. it's not so common but still...

[Ricks2]

@Ricks: I'm talking about wotlk and it happened in duel that some rogues have been able to shadowstep my charge. it's not so common but still...

Yep, you are right it can happen, but that's related to latency issues on molten. You probably have seen it aswell, when you charge a locks fear for example and even tho you got the interupt on it, you still end up being feared at times (rare but happens).

[Panofsky]

Yep, you are right it can happen, but that's related to latency issues on molten. You probably have seen it aswell, when you charge a locks fear for example and even tho you got the interupt on it, you still end up being feared at times (rare but happens).

So you think it's a effect caused by the latency and not a planned move based on a predictable use of the bladestorm. Well, then some of my rogue/feral druid friends are really lucky. :D

[Ricks2]

So you think it's a effect caused by the latency and not a planned move based on a predictable use of the bladestorm. Well, then some of my rogue/feral druid friends are really lucky. :D

I can't tell what you are exactly reffering to, but if you talk about a proper step on a charge (aka you switch positons) then yes, molten does not support it because ability delay isn't working. Which is literally the basis for this stuff to happen without having a latency issue.

[pandaren53]

by the way,as arms warr,dont challenge frost mage to duel :D

[Forseth]

I've never played warriors before but when I do I know i will pwn every single class with this awesome guide.

The secret to beating EVERYSINGLE class is all right here in these 6 easy steps:
Step 1. Charge
Step 2. REND (Very Important)
Step 3. Hamstring.
Step 4. Mortal Strike.
Step 5. Bladestorm.
Step 6. Execute/Overpower When Available.

somewhere in there throw in some defensive cool down and you are golden.

its so awesome like every single class he uses the exact same steps and then apologize for not putting all the class counters. This has got to be the best guide ever.

Thats what I use too. But what do u do after Step 6? Is there a similar defensive rotation too u can recommend? Just asking because of cd and facing attacks of opponents. Or is it dependend on which class is attacking you?

[rascunho]

Is so sad never saw a Warrior complaing about Execute damage. Execute is bugged and nobody cares or don't even know that. Execute on retail is the top damage skill on warrior, since vanilla until wod. Even on 3.3.5 was the top damage skill and never was different of that. Execute here pull less damage then slam, mocking blow ... so ridiculouss

[jendah]

Is so sad never saw a Warrior complaing about Execute damage. Execute is bugged and nobody cares or don't even know that. Execute on retail is the top damage skill on warrior, since vanilla until wod. Even on 3.3.5 was the top damage skill and never was different of that. Execute here pull less damage then slam, mocking blow ... so ridiculouss

Execute, top damage, wotlk - first time I see those in a single post.. it was true at the start of expansion, but wotlk execute scales far worse (20% ap + flat amount for rage consumed) than other skills (mocking blow and slam both deal full weapon dmg) with gear -> execute falls of at better gear.

[iSullivan]

I can't remember exactly how it was on retail but isn't mocking blow supposed NOT to do damage to players ?