This server will become P2W ?

[medocar]

So you think the massive cost of items and the fact that you have to obtain the previous item in-game before donating for the next one up isn't "redeemable"? I think you're being a bit more hostile about it than you need to be.

I actualy forgot you need to have previous gear obtained to buy stuff. . . ****. Anyway does this mean that some previous sets will be only obtainable in game, or will they stay in shop, so a person that just hit 80lvl will have to buy all the pieces in order to get to the final 271 ilvl once. If thats the case i seriously doubt there will actualy be P2W but on a side note what about trinkets, you can buy only...say, Sharpened Twilight Scale normal and a HC one after and go arenas with those, i think pvpers only need that far. How about no pve trinkets in store ? no ?

[Mercy]

I, unfortunately, do not have answers to much of that at this time. I imagine all the items that are placed in the store will remain there, though. Purchasing your way up to 271 ilvl straight from fresh level 80 would be a HUGE investment though, and I highly doubt anyone would do that. I know the price of older items goes down over time, but still.

The donation shop, currently, is actually so restrictive that very few people are donating and purchasing things.

[helltrix]

So you think the massive cost of items and the fact that you have to obtain the previous item in-game before donating for the next one up isn't "redeemable"? I think you're being a bit more hostile about it than you need to be.

If it stays expensive and you can't buy 277 gear I can live with it. It'll still suck that you'll be able to just buy bauble if I understand the system correctly, though.

[helltrix]

how is that pay2win?lets say for exampe if you have 25/10 icc normal mode ( before hc released) you can donate for 10man gear.when you get to hc mode you can donate for 264 ilv gear thats 10man hc and 25 man normal.you will be able to donate for Deathbringer's Will normal mode you will be able to get hc version only with raiding.there is nothing that is p2w here.also even if they change it and make some other model for ICC thats like what? 1 year ahead?you really so worry that 1 year later server can become p2w?
and yes ofc 1 day in the future you will probably be able to donate for BIS ingame gear.

Buying bauble is definetily p2w, we don't even have anything to discuss here. Also the day you can buy bis gear I'll stop playing on this server and go elsewhere. I know, I know, noone cares.

[Mercy]

If it stays expensive and you can't buy 277 gear I can live with it. It'll still suck that you'll be able to just buy bauble if I understand the system correctly, though.

No, you won't be able to "just buy _____" for anything.

And of course you'll live with it. Until some other alternate means of funding the server appears, a system like this will be in place.

[angelored]

Buying bauble is definetily p2w, we don't even have anything to discuss here. Also the day you can buy bis gear I'll stop playing on this server and go elsewhere. I know, I know, noone cares.

Just leave now most people are already sick of your crying.

[Zardonic]

Yeah realm with just vanity stuff and mounts won't really bring any funds as most of the people just want the gear that they 'paid' for no matter what.
So i'll be glad if the staff decides to like... have some achievement requirement like... you must have killed Lich king in 25 normal mode to donate for the ICC gear and Halion 25 normal to donate for RS gear this would limit those pay to win aspects even more and I really really hope they will come up with something when they release ulduar to reduce the pay to win aspect as much as possible.

[Uzihunter]

I don't see any aspect of progressive hardcore realm here except overbuffed raids (which is ok,and will probably be removed due too much kids and casuals playing here)...And if someone doesn't agree with this why is this crying? We are not puppets ofcourse,and this topic is kinda still open (on other side of RDF topics)...Why we speak about this here? Because this can easily turn back alot of good players who doesn't agree with this model because this is model totally opposite of HC progressive which sepparate it from Ragnaros and other realms here...I think devs are really smart enought to come up with other ways to earn money and to still protect what this server stands for in it's foundations...buying naxx gear in the time of TOC - well,ok...2 tiers below you will kinda not feel that much of a impact there,but dinging 80 and just buy full ulduar gear in the time of TOC? and trinkets etc.? and after that disable rdf to stay true to hardcore (I agree with disabling rdf)...I really really don't understand lol

[Obnoxious]

I don't see any aspect of progressive hardcore realm here except overbuffed raids (which is ok,and will probably be removed due too much kids and casuals playing here)...And if someone doesn't agree with this why is this crying? We are not puppets ofcourse,and this topic is kinda still open (on other side of RDF topics)...Why we speak about this here? Because this can easily turn back alot of good players who doesn't agree with this model because this is model totally opposite of HC progressive which sepparate it from Ragnaros and other realms here...I think devs are really smart enought to come up with other ways to earn money and to still protect what this server stands for in it's foundations...buying naxx gear in the time of TOC - well,ok...2 tiers below you will kinda not feel that much of a impact there,but dinging 80 and just buy full ulduar gear in the time of TOC? and trinkets etc.? and after that disable rdf to stay true to hardcore (I agree with disabling rdf)...I really really don't understand lol

If people just complain, without actually presenting any truly viable alternative at all, it becomes "crying."
You say you really don't understand, but I personally can't understand how someone doesn't understands the fact that servers have costs, and they aren't pocket change costs. Unless you come up and cover the costs from your pocket, without expecting any sort of "reward" for it, how can you blame either the ones who will effectively pay for you to be able to play or us for having to cover those costs and not take all of it from our own wallets?

[Uzihunter]

If people just complain, without actually presenting any truly viable alternative at all, it becomes "crying."
You say you really don't understand, but I personally can't understand how someone doesn't understands the fact that servers have costs, and they aren't pocket change costs. Unless you come up and cover the costs from your pocket, without expecting any sort of "reward" for it, how can you blame either the ones who will effectively pay for you to be able to play or us for having to cover those costs and not take all of it from our own wallets?

well,you are right,I understand you have to be paid for what are you doing,especially when you are doing good job...I really do understand,I'm not some 15year old kid haha but I told like 2-3 times in this topic...Selling instant 70-80's or some estetic items etc. is better if you ask ME...but I didn't do math and I really don't know prices of items you will sell,but this is things that will not have impact on expirience of progressive realm...leveling is important from my perspective and I like it,but buying what I said is also "blizzlike"...so with that model,you really really stay true to yourself and to word blizzlike...buying gear can really destroy all that...as people will be able to skip farming HC's and natural progression of gearing to current content...is just my POV...I really do understand that you need to be paid as me myself have job that I'm paid for...but really,think about what you can do with this,it can really turn back alot of players (for sure not casuals,and I think hardcore players need to have advantage here as we play on hardcore wotlk realm)...I'm open for response here,don't take my words as crying,we just discuse...

[Uzihunter]

btw.I'm about to go waste myself in ocean of alcohol so I wish you all happy new year ;)

[Obnoxious]

well,you are right,I understand you have to be paid for what are you doing,especially when you are doing good job...I really do understand,I'm not some 15year old kid haha but I told like 2-3 times in this topic...Selling instant 70-80's or some estetic items etc. is better if you ask ME...but I didn't do math and I really don't know prices of items you will sell,but this is things that will not have impact on expirience of progressive realm...leveling is important from my perspective and I like it,but buying what I said is also "blizzlike"...so with that model,you really really stay true to yourself and to word blizzlike...buying gear can really destroy all that...as people will be able to skip farming HC's and natural progression of gearing to current content...is just my POV...I really do understand that you need to be paid as me myself have job that I'm paid for...but really,think about what you can do with this,it can really turn back alot of players (for sure not casuals,and I think hardcore players need to have advantage here as we play on hardcore wotlk realm)...I'm open for response here,don't take my words as crying,we just discuse...

I'm talking about server costs, not myself in particular. Paying for the hardware, the bandwidth, for reliable support, for the hundreds on man-hours being used in the development, for the DDoS mitigation that is undeniably necessary and so on. Not enough people donate for the services you suggest as a solution. As I said in a previous post, we have years of data of player behavior when using coins, enough to state that just vanity stuff wouldn't suffice. People who donate just for vanity are often the kind of people who already would donate for the sake of supporting the server without thinking of it as "buying gear." They unfortunately aren't anywhere near enough to cover the bills. Blizzard charges a monthly fee from millions of players, while we have to depend on the goodwill of a few and on generating interest in the Marketplace for the rest.

[helltrix]

Just leave now most people are already sick of your crying.

And I'm sick of spineless people like you.

If people just complain, without actually presenting any truly viable alternative at all, it becomes "crying."
You say you really don't understand, but I personally can't understand how someone doesn't understands the fact that servers have costs, and they aren't pocket change costs. Unless you come up and cover the costs from your pocket, without expecting any sort of "reward" for it, how can you blame either the ones who will effectively pay for you to be able to play or us for having to cover those costs and not take all of it from our own wallets?

p2w is the opposite of fun, introduce a sub. I'd pay it.

[Maniacofpeace]

p2w is the opposite of fun, introduce a sub. I'd pay it.

Step 1 of starting a private server that you want other people to play on is to not have a freaking subscription fee.

[helltrix]

Step 1 of starting a private server that you want other people to play on is to not have a freaking subscription fee.

Well, yes. It was sort of a joke. I'm know that as the games lose on popularity, they go from a sub to p2w.

With all that being said, I think it's obvious that the players won't judge the game operators by their financial success. I don't know the numbers, I've never ran a private server business, the only thing I can comment on is gameplay. No matter what, it affects the gameplay for the worse and handwaving the issue away is rather unpolite.

It takes a huge amount of gametime and effort to play on this server. In the end everyone can decide if it's worth playing, the only thing that one'd expect is clarity.