Classic vs. BfA

[bigbazz]

Blizzard will most likely if not have to, change alot in their old Vanilla version, (not enough quests to max level, 70% of the specs instantly kicked from raids cause of the terrible balancing in dps/ heal/ Tanking, not even 1% of the whole population being able to complete Naxxramas)
Not to long ago I saw a video from blizz on youtube where they explained how to improve the early game content (quests and dungeons) to not feel so old and outdated, and very likely even take that into the legacy servers.

Why do you think they have to change any of this? Classic servers are a result of people wanting exactly that, of whining for 10 years about wanting vanilla back, as it was. The huge fuss over Nostalrius server being shutdown and the massive backlash came from people wanting to play Vanilla, not some modern tweaked level 60 bastardised hybrid.. You think all those people spent years pushing for something to then have it be changed for some arbritrary reasons that boils down to catering to a modern game design audience who weren't asking for it to begin with?

The whole point is to play the old game warts and all, that's what people spent years fighting for. The most important part is that they have stated specifically that they intend it to be an un-tarnished vanilla experience, they have never stated otherwise so you're jumping to a pretty silly conclusion to expect it.

[Mercy]

Why do you think they have to change any of this? Classic servers are a result of people wanting exactly that, of whining for 10 years about wanting vanilla back, as it was. The huge fuss over Nostalrius server being shutdown and the massive backlash came from people wanting to play Vanilla, not some modern tweaked level 60 bastardised hybrid.. You think all those people spent years pushing for something to then have it be changed for some arbritrary reasons that boils down to catering to a modern game design audience who weren't asking for it to begin with?

The whole point is to play the old game warts and all, that's what people spent years fighting for. The most important part is that they have stated specifically that they intend it to be an un-tarnished vanilla experience, they have never stated otherwise so you're jumping to a pretty silly conclusion to expect it.

If we're going to be honest, very few people actually contributed to the "movement" prior to Classic being announced. Just playing on private servers doesn't necessarily contribute to the "movement", nor does complaining about how "awful" they think the modern version of the game is.

[bigbazz]

If we're going to be honest, very few people actually contributed to the "movement" prior to Classic being announced. Just playing on private servers doesn't necessarily contribute to the "movement", nor does complaining about how "awful" they think the modern version of the game is.

A massive amount of people contributed to the "movement", youtube videos, gaming website articles, the huge hundreds of pages (and multiple extensions) threads on the official forums, the numerous monthly discussion threads on MMO-champion. Especially around the time Nostalrius got shut down the uproar was massive, it was making front page news on Reddit, it was covered by some mainstream national/international news websites and the official forums were full of players making love letters to vanilla and all sorts in what I can only describe as a mob like frenzy.

I'm not sure how you can say that only a few people contributed to the movement when if that was true the "movement" would not have existed to begin with, it only happened due to the massive outcry and the catalyst for that was Nostalrius, if not for Nostalrius and the drama surrounding its shutdown we wouldn't have Classic coming. That was the bomb that blizzard needed to realise the market potential.

[Obnoxious]

A massive amount of people contributed to the "movement", youtube videos, gaming website articles, the huge hundreds of pages (and multiple extensions) threads on the official forums, the numerous monthly discussion threads on MMO-champion. Especially around the time Nostalrius got shut down the uproar was massive, it was making front page news on Reddit, it was covered by some mainstream national/international news websites and the official forums were full of players making love letters to vanilla and all sorts in what I can only describe as a mob like frenzy.

I'm not sure how you can say that only a few people contributed to the movement when if that was true the "movement" would not have existed to begin with, it only happened due to the massive outcry and the catalyst for that was Nostalrius, if not for Nostalrius and the drama surrounding its shutdown we wouldn't have Classic coming. That was the bomb that blizzard needed to realise the market potential.

Your view of "massive," "huge," "numerous," "frenzy," etc. is not only soiled by your bias on the subject, but limited to that of a player's reduced scope. For a company like Blizzard it's a whiny teardrop in the ocean, and either they see a source of profit or just want people to shut up/use it as an example for why they won't do it again when the number of players that stick around is low.

[Skoobydoo]

Your view of "massive," "huge," "numerous," "frenzy," etc. is not only soiled by your bias on the subject, but limited to that of a player's reduced scope. For a company like Blizzard it's a whiny teardrop in the ocean, and either they see a source of profit or just want people to shut up/use it as an example for why they won't do it again when the number of players that stick around is low.

Looks to me like you just made whole a lot of assumptions that are not backed by any facts.You cant possible know what "massive" mean for blizzard nor you have any idea how Classic will work out and who will stick with it.

[Obnoxious]

Looks to me like you just made whole a lot of assumptions that are not backed by any facts.You cant possible know what "massive" mean for blizzard nor you have any idea how Classic will work out and who will stick with it.

This would be too boring a discussion to get deep into (if I wanted to argue with fanboys in nostalgia glasses and those that were swayed by them there are more pleasant subjects to pick out there), so I'll just be brief: I don't own any Blizzard document stating an exact number for where something becomes "massive" for the company, no, but it's easily deduced that the amount of people crying for the return of "Vanilla" wasn't ever significant enough for them to even consider doing this before the whole fiasco with Nostalrius, pretending to "give in" to Blizzard as cover for their actual reasons, and the publicity it earned; unless in Blizzard "massive" is a word used for "insignificant and not worth the trouble," they never considered the tiny fraction of their overall playerbase that was asking for this to be fit for that adjective - something that's easily understandable... it's akin to a television/monitor company going against its plans and interests, and starting to produce CRTs again because of the few people who whine that LCD has worse image quality. Regarding the other part, I'm simply fully with the Blizzard guy who made the statement that players don't know what they want in situations like this, they only think they do... that statement coming from whom it did just shows the company doesn't really expects it to be a major success - does that fits with something that would please "massive" amounts?

[bigbazz]

Your view of "massive," "huge," "numerous," "frenzy," etc. is not only soiled by your bias on the subject, but limited to that of a player's reduced scope. For a company like Blizzard it's a whiny teardrop in the ocean, and either they see a source of profit or just want people to shut up/use it as an example for why they won't do it again when the number of players that stick around is low.

Massive - Many players, objectively there were thousands of players commenting on the subject on said forums

Numerous - How can "numerous" be biased? It's an observation of a number, a smaller one than massive.

Frenzy - Forum threads that move at such a pace that one can't keep up with any discussion, wildly ranging displays of emotion from many players, anger and dissappointment among many of them... A frenzy is how I would describe it.

And how am I biased? I don't even plan to play Classic, I'm simply interested in it and was playing Retail at the time Nostalrius got shut down, as an avid poster of their forums at the time and someone following the Nostalrius shutdown (which I did not play). Maybe you should go back and look at the fact that Blizzard responded to the community on the Nostalrius shutdown, they invited those guys to Blizzard headquarters, they got ex Blizzard top brass to put in a plea for classic WoW..

No the shutdown of Nostlarius was massive on the internet and was very obviously a huge factor in BLizzard making the decision. Just because you didn't pay attention to it that doesn't make me wrong, and it certainly doesn't make me biased.

[Obnoxious]

Massive - Many players, objectively there were thousands of players commenting on the subject on said forums

Numerous - How can "numerous" be biased? It's an observation of a number, a smaller one than massive.

Frenzy - Forum threads that move at such a pace that one can't keep up with any discussion, wildly ranging displays of emotion from many players, anger and dissappointment among many of them... A frenzy is how I would describe it.

And how am I biased? I don't even plan to play Classic, I'm simply interested in it and was playing Retail at the time Nostalrius got shut down, as an avid poster of their forums at the time and someone following the Nostalrius shutdown (which I did not play). Maybe you should go back and look at the fact that Blizzard responded to the community on the Nostalrius shutdown, they invited those guys to Blizzard headquarters, they got ex Blizzard top brass to put in a plea for classic WoW..

No the shutdown of Nostlarius was massive on the internet and was very obviously a huge factor in BLizzard making the decision. Just because you didn't pay attention to it that doesn't make me wrong, and it certainly doesn't make me biased.

You define words from your own personal, individual, biased, limited point of view and can't even understand how it's biased? The amount of people whining about Vanilla was minuscule from Blizzard's perspective, and that's the only one that matters. Your "frenzy" was some minor *****ing by an irrelevant minor part of the players that didn't stop Blizzard from releasing half a dozen expansions and another coming. For someone who says he doesn't even plans to play, you're playing quite well the top gushing fanboy who can't see his own bias under all the sticky fluid. Blizzard either saw a way to make more easy money or a way to shut up the whining-backed-by-game-press-coverage and come out of it saying "I told you so," nothing else. If they cared about your "massive frenzy" they would have done this years ago.

[bigbazz]

You define words from your own personal, individual, biased, limited point of view and can't even understand how it's biased? The amount of people whining about Vanilla was minuscule from Blizzard's perspective, and that's the only one that matters. Your "frenzy" was some minor *****ing by an irrelevant minor part of the players that didn't stop Blizzard from releasing half a dozen expansions and another coming. For someone who says he doesn't even plans to play, you're playing quite well the top gushing fanboy who can't see his own bias under all the sticky fluid. Blizzard either saw a way to make more easy money or a way to shut up the whining-backed-by-game-press-coverage and come out of it saying "I told you so," nothing else. If they cared about your "massive frenzy" they would have done this years ago.

And how is your post not biased by using your own interpretation whilst also making baseless assumptions about Blizzard? Come on, you're being purposely un-reasonable whilst showing quite a considerable amount of your own bias, swings both ways I'm afraid.

[Obnoxious]

And how is your post not biased by using your own interpretation whilst also making baseless assumptions about Blizzard? Come on, you're being purposely un-reasonable whilst showing quite a considerable amount of your own bias, swings both ways I'm afraid.

My own interpretation? Baseless assumptions about Blizzard?
I guess in your parallel reality Blizzard didn't ignore and rebuke your "massive frenzy" for over a decade, something that would be difficult if the "massive frenzy" had any real mass to it and was seen as meaningful.

You're not only biased, but majorly overestimate your and your "massive frenzy's" importance. But then again, that couldn't be more clear with the very choice of words you use to describe the "movement"... which circles back to my first reply in this.

[SilverFlash]

My own interpretation? Baseless assumptions about Blizzard?
I guess in your parallel reality Blizzard didn't ignore and rebuke your "massive frenzy" for over a decade, something that would be difficult if the "massive frenzy" had any real mass to it and was seen as meaningful.

You're not only biased, but majorly overestimate your and your "massive frenzy's" importance. But then again, that couldn't be more clear with the very choice of words you use to describe the "movement"... which circles back to my first reply in this.

The Nostalrius outlash was large enough to prompt an action from Blizzard - whereas they ignored years of plead for old expansions for years.If you call stating that fact biased,you might want to take back from your negativity and stop being biased towards your (ex)competitors and what they(and their community) achieved.

A lot of oldtimers that quit retail would love to play vanilla again,those that were fed up with blizzard's catering to the casual community.Blizzard has a great opportunity with classic,but they can ruin it by adding things that don't belong in vanilla.

@Skoobydoo About legion being on the same grind level,try to farm Insane in the Membrane,Timbermaw Hold(this was especially notorious),Thorium Brotherhood(trucks of materials needed for exalted) in vanilla.

[Pooppickle]

legion was awful, every class boring and samey can fit all the skills onto 1 or 2 bars... pass
bfa wont be a big shift so
i wont play it

wotlk forever
cata if there's ever a good/popular p server for it

[ImaChickIRL]

Op has a point. it really seems like BFA is going to be vanilla, if vanilla was made in 2018. The new world pvp implementation alone gives me this sense. Actually come to think of it it's pretty clear with the new BFA sets, just updated marshal gear.

[Palutena]

Blizzard only announced it due to the repercussions when closing Nostalrius. It was never intended by them to bring back a Classic realm. Even if they open it, they will hope for it to be abandoned asap. They will surely claim that there aren't enough people to maintain the realm, unless it becomes a charity realm, something you don't see Activision doing.

As for myself, I would only play it if it had all the Quality of Life features from the current expansion.

[Ostlimpa]

Thread carefully now.