what's wrong with people

[snajper4202]

Whenever I sit in dala I see raid spams like

LFM ICC B+P+O+ SF + RB + FB RESERVED
LFM TOC B+P+O Reserved

literally every raid is almost like this, are people just 100% loot whores or there are normal pugs out there?

Edit:

Whenever I host pugs where nothing reserved I feel like walking with fire torch into caveman cave

[Agresiva]

are people just 100% loot whores or there are normal pugs out there?

Yes, almost everyone is a loot whore, from the new players to the guilds farming the top tier raids.
No one raids for fun, and people that raid for fun are cast out and replaced with high GS score with no regards to tactics.

[angrylol]

You know, you can always --- NOT join those raids.

[snajper4202]

Wow really? I didn't know, thanks Captain Obvious

[crunchycabbage]

Managing a raid is sometimes pretty annoying especially with all the bucketheads running around, so i absolutely understand if a raidleader wants to reserve himself some guaranteed compensation, though it does get ridiculous at times

[Thorbjorn]

Managing a raid is sometimes pretty annoying especially with all the bucketheads running around

This. Not all raids go smooth because there's plethora of people not knowing what the hell they're doing. Reserving an item or 2 is a compensation for the trouble of leading that gang of troggs.

[dolcokidol]

Sure, if the leader is competent and will actually lead the group, then he should get at least primordials or crusader orbs.
But the number of "leaders" trying to do this and not saying a word, not even reading the chat when I say a 5.6k and 5k tanks aren't really the best idea on GSB HC or doing Lady HC when 6 people got cleaved on Marrowgar is insanely high. These guys always play dps, they never see healers missing buffs, get malleable goo and so on. Only fail that they do see is when you wipe, and then it's the healers or tanks fault, not the dps that viled them all.
Just last Wednesday I was in a group with some rogue, forgot the name, cleared full ICC25N with a few HC bosses. Not a single issue whatsoever. Smooth run, I think he didn't even reserve primordials, he was just there to clear the raid and that's what we did.
But those raids where they try reserving items are pathetic. Even if I don't need that or any other item, I'm not even considering to join them just to carry someone to get his DBW/STS/GTS.

[snajper4202]

Managing a raid is sometimes pretty annoying especially with all the bucketheads running around, so i absolutely understand if a raidleader wants to reserve himself some guaranteed compensation, though it does get ridiculous at times

if only those leaders knew how to lead then I wouldn’t have problem with them reserving ****, truth is they usually don’t and will bail out on first occasion when they get fed with boes

[Disktrasa]

Yeah I hate the "reserv item" ever since day 1 everyone in warmane started using it in the pug raids, almost everyone does it now and I personally never join those raids.

[Kovachut]

Tbh I completely understand those raid leaders.

crunchycabbage explained the common case, but I want to add another thing to his point - leavers/rage quiters. Honestly, it is super frustrating to wait an hour, in order for the RL to assemble a solid group, and then to see some people leaving/going afk after the first few bosses and ruining the whole experience for the rest of the players. In those cases no one wants to join the raid and risk getting ID for nothing. And if we are talking about icc specifically, most of the pugs which I had joined ended at PP, people started flaming eachother or cried about loot and the raids failed before the fun part began. I joined a guild, so I don't have this problem anymore, but honestly, if I had relied on pugs to get my achievements, I would have never gotten them.

So yeah, I can totally understand how some players get annoyed, when raid leaders reserve items for themselves, but I have been in way too many failed pugs to know, that those players they deserve some kind of a compensation for the trouble they face. Regarding the question to what extent it's acceptable for a player to reserve a specific item regardless how well they fulfil their role as a raid leader is another topic. I personally think it's ok to reserve rare drops such as DBW, since some people grind them for months and have probably gotten tired of losing to unlucky low-rolls and if they put a lot of effort to assemble a group and to lead it, then I don't see a problem with this act. In big raids like icc, for example, there is plenty of loot to satisfy the needs of the players. If we are talking about RS 25, then reserving trinkets would be a bit problematic, since those are the primary reason players want to play that instance.

[snajper4202]

Failed pugs are often related to the dumb leaders.

This is your average baboon pug maker on icecrown

Spending extra time on inspecting people and verifying if they've got the achi? No
Inviting 6 furry warriors to 10m icecrown? Yes
Discord? No, sorry no mic (in 2k19 lol)
Explaining/recapping tactics before bosses? no
Assigning raid cd rotation? Heck no
Understanding boss mechanics themselves? Usually no
Arranging what pally buffs what? Very rare
Doing something more in raid than collecting loot and changing gunship to hc? Nope
Reserving all fuking boes? Ofc
Reserving all primos? Hell yeah
Reserving valuable items aka trinkets/sf/fb/rb? YES YES YES
Accepting that they are ****ing trash and should not raid lead? Its not me man, its the community!!!
Inviting people solely based on their gs even if it means people don't know what they doing? Yes sir GS>Everything else, just fill up the raid already and lets ro it before PP
PP fight? We can try, stack up for red ooze and kite green :)
Asking for over 6k gs while they don't even got 5k themselves? Yes please carry me, me love you long time

[Obnoxious]

Then create your own PuG raid, without a "dumb leader" (you will be leading and you aren't dumb, I assume?), don't ask for high iLevels (asking for GS is already a sign of someone who doesn't understand how it can be boosted with bad items), and don't reserve anything. If you find that too much of a hassle you forfeit your right to complain of how the people who do it want to run the item distribution.

[angrylol]

Ye,
Hate to repeat this, but consider joining guild, find the one that suits you, where people want to do the same thing as you and have the same mindset. You will never go back to pug again.

[snajper4202]

Then create your own PuG raid, without a "dumb leader" (you will be leading and you aren't dumb, I assume?), don't ask for high iLevels (asking for GS is already a sign of someone who doesn't understand how it can be boosted with bad items), and don't reserve anything. If you find that too much of a hassle you forfeit your right to complain of how the people who do it want to run the item distribution.

For almost whole last week when I had time off work I hosted raids almost every day whether it was toc or icc or voa 10/25 doesn't matter probably did all. When I hosted I made sure that everything is done in a good manner which means no loot reservation, the promise of clearing all or at least attempting to clear all, spending more time preparing the raid than an actual raid by ensuring people meet the requirements e.g. full achievement and had access to discord if we decided to use it. While some raids were cleared, there were also some that were not fully cleared for example pug i hosted this week did 10/12 icc 25, could clear the rest but it was already late and people were simply quitting not because they didn't want to play but because it was simply.. too late. Even though I made a promise that we will do ks 25, we didn't and I took full responsibility for that by attempting to reschedule raid for the next day. Even though we didn't clear, people were happy because we pretty much 1 shooted everything up to synd. Everything was smooth and all boe drops were rolled after raid including primos. During the raid as some people were simply logging off, I was replacing them to ensure we continue. Despite the fact we didn't clear all as promised, people were actually quite happy.

That's what I define as a correct approach to being a good leader not a random boe grab baboon.

[snajper4202]

Ye,
Hate to repeat this, but consider joining guild, find the one that suits you, where people want to do the same thing as you and have the same mindset. You will never go back to pug again.

You are 100% correct the only problem I face is that sometimes I'm available to play the whole week while sometimes I will be away for 3 weeks so joining a guild and consider me of being a member of it would just be a waste of a spot .