Toxicity

[Xujipriest]

Hi Raid Leaders,

If you are a raid leader, and you keep getting fed up by mistakes that players make in a raid/pug group. Please take a break. Or have someone take over lead within the raid group, anything to keep the raid going, that is what a raid leader does right? If you RO and leave after just a few attempts, that's a bad call!

Socialize, have fun, let it go, why tear everything down for simple mistakes, can't rely on everyone, at all times, we are people, but being leader and call everyone ******ed multiple times, kicking people for small reasons, raising your voice, while 24 other people are listening just makes it all even more difficult you know. It ruins the vibe for all the 24 other people.

Please, do not lead a raid, if you are not comfortable with it, it comes of the costs of other players as well you know. There should be zero tension. And if there is tension, the leader should deal with it, think problem solving, to keep the raid going, instead of building up the tension. Break the ice!

Pug group is pug group, be prepared for the worst, new guild members make mistakes as well, give them time, don't bash them to the ground, deal with it in a humane and mature way, you don't have to kick people out(build up Guild legacy), rather have them stay as social and give them a chance some other time, whenever they feel ready for it, you don't have to play nanny and hold hands, I get it, but this game is also a place for people to escape reality, and have fun, in this great community, we are people as well, and all should be treated with respect and kindness, some actually come here for just that. To just play the game, talk about the game and have fun, not why someone is behaving differently, or think differently, just align yourself with the players and focus on just the game, and your snacks, and your drinks and that you pee and poo before the raid starts, smoke a doobie, drink a bud, put on the heavy metal mix, club, vice city(flash fm), you know where i'm going with this!

I just wanted to share this message, hoping that some will read it, and take it in account whenever they will host a raid again, or work on teambuilding with their guild.

Thank you for reading.

Regards,


Xuji

[Xujipriest]

I rather be in a pug group with people that have less experience and keep trying, with fun, laughter and being helpful, til they get it, than some leader who starts yelling at everyone, kicking people, resulting the raid to RO because the group didn't meet leader expectations, all i'm saying.

I understand the frustration of multiple wipes, people abruptly leaving, not listening on discord, not replying, it makes you feel .. annoyed by a lot, cause you came here as a leader, came to find and help people with a raid, it took you 45 minutes to gather a group, finally there, and then you get all of the stated above, I get it.

Maybe it helps to rely on players(friends), and invite people from the list you have build, it might make things a bit easier.

Anything to prevent random people right? But even guild members, and experienced players can make mistakes, anything to increase the odds of finishing a raid!

[Xujipriest]

Like for example you can gather a list of friends, that you raided multiple times with, and set up a roster(week from now), and just be resourceful of who to pick, and who not to pick!

Inviting random players is like a casino slot machine, you pull the slots, and hope to get 3 diamonds, but instead you get 1 berry, 1 peach and 1 lemon, sometimes you are lucky with it, sometimes you are not, don't be bothered by it, you took the risk in the first place, can't blame the group!

[Morvion]

Pug group is group, be prepared for the worst, new guild members make mistakes, deal with it in a humane and mature way.

i mean, u can just take over the raid and lead it yourself if u're more sane than him.
its pug raid, u cant just expect to always have a high iq mature kind-hearted sober person raid leading your raid.

[Xujipriest]

Everything to keep the raid going bro, and to leave frustration out, if a lead starts yelling, calling everyone dip****, kicking them, the next wipe? More people will just leave, it ruins the vibe for everyone, some are new, some have to wait a whole week again for a specific raid, cause leader decided to RO.

I believe RO, mid-way raid should be a punishable offense if leader was the cause due toxicity.

I see this as disrupting gameplay in some situations ngl.

Frustration won't solve anything, unless you go gym, you might be able to pull that extra weight LOL!

Like if you are a raid leader, who hosts a raid, just to shout at people, you are wasting your own time as well, you did all the preparation and waiting, wiping, for nothing, it makes the whole thing worthless, all i'm saying is, make it the best, it's all you can do! And prepare wisely for your raids, pug is risk, keep a list, network around, increase the odds.

But honestly we need more leveling guild on Horde side, cause many people struggle to find a guild, so I hope more endgame guilds will be more lenient in welcoming new players!

[angrylol]

Sometimes RO is the right thing to do. For example, when you don't get enough "carriers" and not enough people that can barely carry themselves. When you have 15+ players who always get carried, consciously or not. All you can get from that raid is stress induced hair loss, potential extra gear piece is not worth it.

It's called "Prices Law" or something like that.

[Xujipriest]

Ye three times a charm right? RO is really a last resort. But it happens to often. Relax, enjoy to the fullest!

[Xujipriest]

We progressed from the start, all the way through phase 3 in RS25hc(Halion 17%) in a pug group last night, just to show the potential of a raid, if you commit to it, stay calm, be nice to everyone, people make mistakes, but after a while, replacement is inevitable. there will be understanding if dealt with correctly, nobody abruptly left, this was my best pug raid in a long while, so many people have learned and had fun with it.


50+ people on ID, we had like 24 wipes and called it a day after 2.5 hours, but we are determined to come back tonight, and kill Spyro the Dragon!

These raids also give new players a lot of time and oppertunity to learn the raid mechanics by the way.

[Guitterotice]

Raid leaders play a vital role in keeping the raid going and ensuring its success. Taking breaks or delegating leadership within the raid group when feeling overwhelmed by mistakes is a wise decision. It allows for a fresh perspective and helps prevent the raid from being hindered by frustration or tension.

[masoef]

Times have changed ,people just dont give a f .. donate and play the game .

[Blader]

Looks like an HR problem

[L0vedbyF3w]

The problem with free servers has always been the same : There's literally degenerates and losers from all over the world who do absolutely nothing with their life but play WoW. Life is bad and it spills over into the game.

[MetalRuller]

My take on this, as someone who has raid lead ICC 25m 8/12Hc voice-chat-only pugs every single week for over a year with over 90% success rate (until December 2023), is that I believe the real issue here is the players' mentality towards the game, and "good" players no longer playing on the server or in pugs due to quality of pug raids continually decreasing.

It's very stressful and time consuming to even form a good raid, you mentioned 45 minutes in your post but most of my raids took longer to form with good players than the actual raid itself took (sometimes 3h to form for a 1h30m - 2h full raid), because I had to be very picky (checking stats, talents, glyphs, and statistics for kill count on ICC bosses) with who I invited to my raids to give the raid the best chance of being successful. I stopped hosting these raids because it stopped being possible to find enough of these good players every week fast enough, despite already having half of the raid filled from my discord server's community at the very start.

Most of these days you will just find ICC pugs where the raid leader will invite everyone who asks for an invite, check gearscore and go, then they only do 6 bosses. And at that point, I'm 100% for calling RO, otherwise you're just wasting time on a raid that clearly isn't going to be able to do any more bosses. Try the boss, see how many mechanics people are failing, if it's bad enough that you can't realistically remediate, call RO.

It's very easy to get annoyed at someone doing basic mistakes on a farm run of content over 10 years old that people doing this content should have done some basic research on, especially after you already wasted 2-3h of hard work forming the raid in the first place, and it's also something that kills your motivation for even continuing the raid.
(Context matters, I'm not taking any "new" players to these raids, I've done several newbie-friendly raids and even a guild in the past, but this was simply not the goal with these pug raids, so I expect people who join to remotely know how to play the video-game)

If you think current raid leaders are toxic or inedequate, you should be the change you want to see in the server, try it yourself.
I think that this entire thread is coming from someone who has never raid lead a pug on this server nor knows how stressful it can be, even if you have several friends to delegate tasks to.

[2pac4lifeyo]

Pug is a completely another story, there are less experienced folks playing the game. Its kinda stressful and making a group requires plenty of time.

In terms of hardcore guilds Warmane's gs requirements are insane. You need 6,2 + 6,3 character to play in a decent pve guild that does heroic runs mostly. If you for instance have enough experience and that 6,2 + character, prepare for plenty of toxicity and yelling.

Best option is, farm gold get some heroic items, make an alt and enjoy playing other class, play PvP, or join the Blacrock server here. Play occasionally RDF normal/heroic whatever. Elite PvE guilds if you're looking to join there, it pays off only if you know what you're doing and if you know the tactics, but again, prepare for the plenty of toxicity towards you and yelling. Hardcore PvE guilds are mostly egoistic, which is understandable + insane GS requirements.

Conclusion: Play what you enjoy mostly, see how your brain works in different playstyles, if you like that or that, keep spamming that.

Have fun! And after all, you gotta chill out and relax, you gotta understand that there will always be toxicity and yelling towards you, that's the way it is, you cannot change it. That's why you pick something you enjoy at and you choose your own people. to play with.

Advice: If you're 5,0 + 5,5 + find some PvE guild that does normal ICC/RS for the start, later on when you learn tactics you can easily do some heroic ICC/RS bosses. It comes handy. For the Elite PvE guilds on Warmane, you'd need more knowledge and be prepared for what I told you, if that's your choice, then try it out.

Take care.

[angrylol]

Why would anyone be toxic and yell, if you meet gear requirements and proper experience for "endgame guild"? They would be happy to have another reliable player.