Between the 3%+ passive from Whispering Fang and the 6%+ proc from Death's Choice heroic one can really abuse this...
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Member
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Member
Nvr tried to stack crit to push glancings off the table, though played enha here for years and being aware of the bug. Anyone tried this out in-game? Also what is the point when crit starts pushing glancings off the table? Assuming melee hit is at 13% atm. And is more melee hit needed in order to try this?
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Banned
With such a crit based gear u would need 368 hit rating to reach the spell hit cap of 17% (raid buffed) and 26 expertice as usual.
When u have these values u gonna have a Melee Crit Cap of 71,05% and ur white attacks have a miss chance of around 10%
Now when u get a complete crit based gear u can have around 87% crit chance so 16% of it is over the crit cap and should decimate the glancing blow chance.
Now bosses have a crit depression of 4,8% so with ur crit based gear 82,2% of ur white attacks should be crits, 8% of ur white attacks should be glancing blows and around 10% of ur white attacks should miss.
Maybe its even possible to decimate the glancing blow chance completely when u have a double mungo proc and a agility proc from deathbringer will or death choice. I think everything over 94,8% crit chance is waisted because of the 10% white attack miss chance which u cant avoid unless u get additional hit.
This formula has a small mistake.
Bosses have a crit depression of 4.8% (unless its bugged on Warmane which I dont know).
So the forumula should look like this:
Maximum Critical Chance (MCC) = 76 – (Chance to be Dodged) - (Chance to be Parried) – (Chance to Miss) + 4.8.
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Member
another thing to be noted is that expertise past 21 is wasted , no dodges past 21 expertise
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Member
my armory is "wishiwasgood" deathwing
4.7k gs, 2/5 of the 251 set. do i get hit and expertise max then gem haste/ap/crit?
at my gs what do i gem for haste/ap/crit?
at my gs whats the best enchants for my weapons?
thanks
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Member
Went to your armory but you are in resto gear. In general you should always get hit and expertise cap before anything else. The expertise cap seems to be 21 on warmane currently and the spell hit cap for a Dranei like yourself is 341 (13%) because almost all raids have a shadowpriest or boomkin. Gem attack power until you get 4 pieces of tier 10. The 4 piece bonus makes haste comparable if not slightly superior to AP (this is highly debated around these parts). In general at lower gear levels berserking on main hand is best with black magic on offhand. Once you gain more passive haste you can swap to dual berserking. Having said all that, the best way to tell what to use on your gear is a simulator program like RAWR.
Edited: January 3, 2016
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Banned
I just checked the gem value of my BiS enh RAWR profile (with 4 piece bonus) and this is the result:
Gem / DPS
40 AP / 38.09
20 Haste / 38.00
20 Arp / 37.67
20 Agi / 34.25
30 Stam / 34.25
Im a bit confused here. I dont understand why a Stamina gem should grant me any DPS.
Also, when I replace a 20 haste gem with a 40 ap gem its a slight dps drop but according to the gem value it should be a dps improvement.
Im also surprised that ARP has such a high value. When I get rid of the t10 four set bonus it even tells me that 20 arp has a higher value than 20 haste.
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Member
Make sure to choose dps ratting. Rawr optimizes for overall ratting in default settings (dps + survivability).
Meele + windfury proc are physical dmg, right? It might be high enough for arp to pay off.
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Banned
I have set the "relative gem value" to show me the DPS values but somehow stamina is still listed there and has even a higher value than agilitys. I guess its a bug....
Yeah they are physcial. According to EnhSim around 60% of the dps is physical and 35% is spell dmg while 5% comes from fire ele and spirit wolves.
Im a bit suprised that ARP has such a high value when only 60% of the dps is affected by it.
On the other hand other classes like frost dk do also a high portion of magic dmg with froststrike but getting 100% arp still pays off.
This makes me curious how good ARP used to be when everybody was runing around with double windfury imbue because it was positive bugged and in addition this glancing blow suppresion bug which makes it possible to reduce the number of white attacks beeing affected by glancing blow.
With these two bugs the physical dmg portion was probably somewhere between 70% and 80%.
Maybe it was even worth to get 100% arp...
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Member
has anyone tested arp stacking?
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Banned
ArP stacking as an Enh doesn't make sense, really. Its value is pretty much the same as for Retadins - yes, a solid a part of your DPS is affected by it (melee, Windfury, Stormstrike), but not enough to justify gearing towards ArP instead of AP/Haste, unlike Frost DKs for example.
You have Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Lightning Shield, Flame Shock, Earth Shock, Magma Totem, Fire Nova, Lava Lash - all of these have nothing to do with ArP. Hell, even your (bugged) wolves, the fire elemental and Shamanistic Rage have nothing to do with it...
You'll be gearing toward some end-game ArP "dream", but at the same time gimping around half of your remaining DPS.
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Member
I know it's not the logical choice but half of feral druids dps are bleeds. I'm not sure but I don't think bleeds are boosted by arp but in pvp they stack arp(not sure about pve)
I'm a pvp player trying to do some pve for a change of pace. And just to be clear not arguing with you just discussing
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Banned
If ARP outperforms AP and haste then only because of warmane bugs.
Since double windfury is fixed i guess its not worth to go for ARP.
When it comes to pvp its a different story. I think the physical dmg portion is in pvp significant higher than in pve. 5 maelstrom stacks are often used for hex or healing wave, fire nova and magma totem are hardly used for dmg purpose and FB offhand imbue does less dmg than FT.
Pretty much the only magic ability that is frequently used is shock.
I still wouldnt gem arp in pvp but its worth to get arp offsets when fighting against plate enemys.
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Banned
Just checked a arp based gear with RAWR. Using DBW+STS and ARP gems.
Im reaching 54% arp with this gear.
Arp seems to become extremly beneficial the more u get from it.
RAWR Stat value looks like this in the ARP gear:
ARP: 2.25
Haste: 2.09
AP: 2.0
According to EnhSim i would pull 13040 dps with this arp gear.
In comparison, the dps with the usual BiS gear which focus on haste is 13140 dps.
According to RAWR the ARP gear even outperforms the usual BiS gear.
Usual BiS gear dps: 12385
ARP gear dps: 12417
It is highly possible that a ARP based gear outperforms the usual BiS gear at Warmanes current state. Glancing blows are bugged so the shami does a higher portion of white attack dmg and it makes ARP more beneficial.Edited: January 4, 2016
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Banned
Ferals stack ArP for PvP because they do not rely on bleeds that much there, just straight Mangle/Shred spam and Ferocious Bite.
An ArP build working for an Enh would only happen if you could actually get ArP-capped. The only reason why an ArP build would be beneficial on Warmane is the non-working crit cap, which means you'll also have to be above the crit cap, and both of these are not possible at the same time. ArP is a stat which increases in value the more you have from it, but I wouldn't say it is the stat to go after as an Enh.
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