I havent taken the time to look at the bug reports but most of you should agre with me that SS glyph is bugged. The proc is FAR away from being 50% , so I was wondering if any other glyph could outdps it in the current situation.
Another thing, I am a combat rogue, playing on deathwing ally side and I am current with HnS I realise the proc rate is really low but
1. I like swords ;p
2. I dont have daggers that come even remotly close to my swords ( BH quest sword MH / The Lion's Maw ( ToC ) OH )
and I am not pulling amazing dps and I will probably either switch the sword when I get good daggers or just wait for a fix but until then I was wondering if I am lossing alot of DPS ( because I realise I am lossing some, but I dont know how much exacly )
Also another thing. Yesterday I switched my ArP trinket for the EoT on use AP trinket ( reached 83% passive ArP and figured the trinket aint worth it anymore ) and since the on use trinket has a 2 min CD I was wondering if replacing Glyph of KS just so the trinket and the KS line up is worth it.
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Member
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arksGuest
Weapon switch before KS used to be the way to go, but blizz nerfed weapon switches in combat, basically making switch + KS + switch worse dps than straight KS, because switch:
- generates a GCD
- stops any proc and resets the ICD of procs and trinkets.
So bad idea for me.
I don't know how much HnS is proccing, I myself am using CQC spec with fist/dagger.
If you decide to go CQC path, you'll be getting 10% free crit from CQC+Malice, so I think there'll be no need of gemming it, as there is no focused attacks in combat making crit a useful stat. You'll have more crit when your gear improves.
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Member
why do you care about your dps? I mean you are speced into sword where you spent 5 pts into a worthless skill that gives you .2% dps per boss. I can tell you that alone GoKspree will give you more dps than those 5 pts ever will.
Generally you should be able to do KSpree atleast 3x per boss minimum 2x, unless your raid have imba dps which then wont even matter. Each Kspree hits for only about 20-30k depending oh your procs and buffs, I mean if you like to take off 20k ish of damage so that you can line up your ap trinket for +5k worth of damage on your first Kspree then sure why not right?
As far as Combat goes DO NOT waste 5 pts in HnS unless you are spamming bug forums with +1 to the HnS report it wont be fix anytime soon or near future. If you want to look cool with swords then dont bother about dps just use it and be happy with what ever you get.
lastly even if its bugged or whatever GoSS is still great dps boost for whatever chance you are doing 1-2 less SS per 5x Eviscerates.
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Member
I've seen GoSS proccing about two times per boss fight and a glyph of Adrenalyn rush (example ) could very well outdps the GoSS since I get to pop adrenalyn about 2 times per fight as well.
As to sword spec, the best daggers I have are the FoS / PoS ones and I honestly doubt I will ever get decent 2x of maces.
Dont get me wrong if I had the daggers I would switch to CQC ( btw MH- hard hitting dagger, OH- fast hitting dagger ? ) but I dont so I am stuck with swords until then thats all there is to it
On another topic: I am currently sitting on 39.54% crit ( I know soft cap is 53.22% ) should I regem for crit ( if I do that I would lose a big amount of my passive ArP [83%] ) ?
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arksGuest
CQC is with a slow fist MH, and a fast dagger OH (2 daggers combat is phail, if you wish to use 2 daggers go envenom)
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Member
use mjorrune stone NES is utter crap you rely on your crits to proc and as you said already combat lack crit as it is.
again HEAD OVER TO BUG SECTION AND +1 HnS
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Member
umm both has internal cool down but you see one rely on your already lowered crit to proc so you can probably figure out which is better by looking at your abysmal crit rating.
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Member
if i get black bruise hc ill do dmg test if its better but for now axes give me more dmg even bugged. on my last grun 25lk axe dropped.
so before i made some testing with sword and axe on dummy with high hit rating and hand of justice to compare proc rate. according to ppl on wowhead HoJ should give lvl 80 0,7 proc chance on white hit.
25 hoj hits (procced on posions too) vs 18 hack n slash
and here without poisons
so hoj and hns are bugged for sure. i saw few good geared warriors running around bgs with hoj and now i know why.
and this is dps from my last icc10 hc grun deathbringer.
rate still low but in total gave almost 3% dmg.
in my opinion fists and daggers are certainly better option but only till you get better axes or swords. now will wait for lucky fester 25hc drop ;]
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Member
well thing about HnS is if you get lucky you hit those huge numbers the huge 1-3% of your dps, but if you are say unlucky you can get about .3% dps on HnS on THE OVERALL DPS OF ICC. Its frigging depressing putting 5 pts for something that does less than 1% damage in an overall icc raid. This is mainly the reason I will never go back to HnS till they fix it (if ever) I checked my overall icc damage and see those insanely low numbers. Also you dont have to wait for BB HC just do icc 10 hc and get abom knuckles hc its better than bb and the hc dagger from pp and you got pre icc25 hc BiS.if i get black bruise hc ill do dmg test if its better but for now axes give me more dmg even bugged. on my last grun 25lk axe dropped.
so before i made some testing with sword and axe on dummy with high hit rating and hand of justice to compare proc rate. according to ppl on wowhead HoJ should give lvl 80 0,7 proc chance on white hit.
25 hoj hits (procced on posions too) vs 18 hack n slash
and here without poisons
so hoj and hns are bugged for sure. i saw few good geared warriors running around bgs with hoj and now i know why.
and this is dps from my last icc10 hc grun deathbringer.
rate still low but in total gave almost 3% dmg.
in my opinion fists and daggers are certainly better option but only till you get better axes or swords. now will wait for lucky fester 25hc drop ;]
The only reason HnS is suppose to be competitive is the chance of it procing off high damaging ability like Kspree where the diff can be 10-50k damage. Since its procing off stupid **** like instant poison. Not to mention the fact that it can hit with offhand damage instead of only using mainhand damage your dps is going to be very bad.
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Banned
K so tried combat pve (because my Muti pve gear totals 55% arp passive anyway and i was wondering, would combat be better since i have a huge load of substandard stats in mutilate?) So now i am sitting on a nice 94% arp when regemmed etc for combat.
Observations:
Even using MH sword OH dagger, dagger specialization outperformed HnS rofl.
Lost 10-15% dps on dummy unbuffed vs my mutilate unbuffed.
Raid test to come, i expect the gap to become less significant but to cry at dps loss on fester dbs etc, however I will probably enjoy a damage increase on some stop start fights.
If molten did not have so many favourable dps bugs in pve for other classes i would certainly not stay combat, but as it is fester etc are topped by frost dks and mm hunters mostly anyway, so loosing some dps there is hardly going to be noticed, but 5man RDF HCs and start stop & movement bosses will see improvement.
Oh and lastly its so damn easy to play combat. You can really relax and chill out without loosing dps, unlike the nonstop attention needed to energy pool and pay attention to envenom timer to really maximize Assassin dps. Combat just needs a bit of observation and maybe pooling once every 30seconds or so.
Note: also tried combat pvp while i was at it. Sure ghostly and riposte are nice tools and AR & BF are pleasant as is the kick silence and throw interrupt and 30% dmg reduction when stunned.
However, whether i tried 780 res 65% arp or 1k res 52% arp, all of these tools faded into insignificance when faced with the total bollocks burst and lack of mobility compared to sub and crap sustained damage compared to mutilate spec. The lack of cooldown resets and of course atrocious CP generation added misery seasoning to the allround fail sauce that is combat PvP.
The only concievable use i can see for Combat is low rate rofl arena where you can even win when you enter by accident in your pve mutilate spec with your pvp sub gear and duels vs some plate... oh and Glyphed FoK Spam in AV bottlenecks with a pocket healer :D ... but im not going to ever have a combat pvp offspec just for that... unless they let us change spec mid bg again :D
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arksGuest
IF you mindlessly spam those two skills you're gonna fail, you need to keep track of the envenom buff and don't overwrite it :)
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Member
combat pvp is a totally different thing from regular rogue play its you who can't adapt to it. you can't just spam cd whenever its up, you have to pull people away from group use defensive/offensive cd at the right time. Kspree at the exact time or else you just wasted your best burst cd. It takes a whole lot of tactics and skill to play it correctly.
also I find it funny that you complained about cp generation with combat when sub rogues spam back stab and hemo to get the same if not worst rate of cp generation the only advantage they get is when attacking out of stealth for that cp burst (and here we are with the no cd talk). I don't know about your gear or spec for pvp but I do just fine with 2-3k per ss on plates and 3-10k Evis. Yeah and that's what I do without my hard hitting cd, so if you factor in the Kspree and AR burst I can pretty much take down any target I am hitting. This is by no means guaranteed kill because of the other factors of kiting/swordplay/defensive cd but that's the life of every rogue.
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Banned
Hi everyone aaaaand dafuq happened here? Long time no see!
Okay so...
To your guildie, who passes BB to an Enh shammy, saying that "he doesn't need it" - he's just plain stupid, no offense :D 70% of a Combat's DPS is Melee. Say you're doing 15k DPS pre-BB, after BB you'll be doing around 17k only because of BB. Yeah, it's that OP :D Combat Rogues benefit more from this weapon than any other class/spec in the game. "any other class" being Enhs only, actually, since no other class needs that weapon. No, it's not a hunter weapon :D or druid.
To kittens - I like the way you transformed into liking Combat a bit more. Still, if you just prefer Assa, then stay Assa, but don't call Combat a bad PvE spec plx...
Combat has more DMG than Assa end-geared and that's just a fact... maybe not on Molten, but it's still a fact. Assa loses EPIC DPS when it has to get off /switch its target, as is the case with almost all ICC bosses except DBS and Fester, which are just free loot anyway. Set4 T10 bonus sucks balls for both Combat & Assa, not that it's not a free Evisc or Enve - it's just that the stats you're sacrificing to get that Set4 are too much of a loss.
Yes, thanks for pointing out my flaw in the Guide - Rupture should be used UP UNTIL ArP hard cap.
HnS still doesn't work properly.
Crit cap pretty much doesn't exist on Molten.
2x=> CQC>HnS Molten-wise
As for PvP, my current partner (my brother) is a Combat Rogue and I'm Sub. We fail pretty often. But it's fun. Real-time FUN. LoSing that Warr/DK/Ret from his healer, me CCing the healer & my bro omfgwtfbbqzerging that pitiful plater w/ KS & AR just makes us both LOL so hard IRL. And that's what I love about Combat PvP :)
peace^^
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Member
hey i have question about glyph of eviscerate is it really working ? cause in my 25 raid setup i have almost 60% crit and well with or without this glyph i have same amount of crit on evi on my recount.
so i changed this into adrenaline rush glyph and seems i do more dmg. its same for you guys or im just lucky to crit ;D
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Banned
I haven't observed Evi's crit chance and the glyph's effect, but I know that it can be easily tested on a TD by putting a castsequence 1CP Evi macro through a clicker program for around half an hour. 1CP Evi means 3 seconds, because of 2 globals, considering there's no lag, which means 20 times per minute, which means 600 times for half an hour. It should be enough for a test base.
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