Faction balance

[tibi77]

So it seems like everyone now agrees that we can expect a pretty bad factional unbalance. The question remains whether the staff wants to do something about it, and if so, when and what. I don't agree that "bribing" players to play alliance is a bad thing (also, it's not really bribing, since all it means is you're creating a counterbalance to the imbalanced racial perks). I also don't see how it's bad if players are being persuaded by it into rolling a class they otherwise wouldn't. It doesn't mean they will hate playing the game, it just means they've realized they're better off not swimming against the tides. As someone who had already played on TBC servers with factional unbalance, I can assure you that in case there will be no preemptive intervention implemented before launch, the following will happen (again, I'm talking from experience):

- Alliance players will literally be hunted by large groups of horde players while trying to quest at contested territories. A 2-minute quest will often take 30-40 minutes due to this. Many will get tired of all this and never even make it to 70, granting and additional spot for a horde player (self-accelerating effect).
- Even with a BG balance system that doesn't allow for a player count difference between teams higher than 1, horde will always have the upper hand due to that extra player as well as their far superior PvP racials. As a result of this, they will keep winning every single battle (the few horde players who managed to get in after waiting for way too long), get much better gear early on and thus become even harder to beat and more and more alliance players will get tired of this and quit.
- Alliance players will have a tough time finding groups for anything, be that a group quest, dungeon, raid or BG premade. Result is same as above, worse gear for pvp, less opportunities and more time consuming group building/waiting overall.
- Alliance AH will have much less to offer and it will be much harder to sell anything. Farmers will appear (although they will only be able to farm anything at the low-pop hours) so the supply might normalize, but the demand will still be too low, making it very hard to make gold and afford anything that horde players can obtain with ease.

All these things are guaranteed to happen, the question is whether staff wants to do something about it (and not too late) or it's fine with them.
I personally plan on playing Alliance, but if nothing happens to create balance, I feel forced to roll Horde instead, simply because I don't like the idea of missing out on a lot of PvE content due to dungeon/raid groups taking too long to put together.

[Ayame]

So it seems like everyone now agrees that we can expect a pretty bad factional unbalance. The question remains whether the staff wants to do something about it, and if so, when and what. I don't agree that "bribing" players to play alliance is a bad thing (also, it's not really bribing, since all it means is you're creating a counterbalance to the imbalanced racial perks). I also don't see how it's bad if players are being persuaded by it into rolling a class they otherwise wouldn't. It doesn't mean they will hate playing the game, it just means they've realized they're better off not swimming against the tides. As someone who had already played on TBC servers with factional unbalance, I can assure you that in case there will be no preemptive intervention implemented before launch, the following will happen (again, I'm talking from experience):

- Alliance players will literally be hunted by large groups of horde players while trying to quest at contested territories. A 2-minute quest will often take 30-40 minutes due to this. Many will get tired of all this and never even make it to 70, granting and additional spot for a horde player (self-accelerating effect).
- Even with a BG balance system that doesn't allow for a player count difference between teams higher than 1, horde will always have the upper hand due to that extra player as well as their far superior PvP racials. As a result of this, they will keep winning every single battle (the few horde players who managed to get in after waiting for way too long), get much better gear early on and thus become even harder to beat and more and more alliance players will get tired of this and quit.
- Alliance players will have a tough time finding groups for anything, be that a group quest, dungeon, raid or BG premade. Result is same as above, worse gear for pvp, less opportunities and more time consuming group building/waiting overall.
- Alliance AH will have much less to offer and it will be much harder to sell anything. Farmers will appear (although they will only be able to farm anything at the low-pop hours) so the supply might normalize, but the demand will still be too low, making it very hard to make gold and afford anything that horde players can obtain with ease.

All these things are guaranteed to happen, the question is whether staff wants to do something about it (and not too late) or it's fine with them.
I personally plan on playing Alliance, but if nothing happens to create balance, I feel forced to roll Horde instead, simply because I don't like the idea of missing out on a lot of PvE content due to dungeon/raid groups taking too long to put together.

Every point is a mistake. EVERY POINT.

[Obnoxious]

it's not really bribing, since all it means is you're creating a counterbalance to the imbalanced racial perks

And it's not really stealing, since all it means is you're creating a reassignment of possession ownership, and it's not really lying, since all it means is you're creating an alternative version of facts, and it's not really...

[Cinpe]

- Alliance players will literally be hunted by large groups of horde players while trying to quest at contested territories. A 2-minute quest will often take 30-40 minutes due to this. Many will get tired of all this and never even make it to 70, granting and additional spot for a horde player (self-accelerating effect).
- Even with a BG balance system that doesn't allow for a player count difference between teams higher than 1, horde will always have the upper hand due to that extra player as well as their far superior PvP racials. As a result of this, they will keep winning every single battle (the few horde players who managed to get in after waiting for way too long), get much better gear early on and thus become even harder to beat and more and more alliance players will get tired of this and quit.
- Alliance players will have a tough time finding groups for anything, be that a group quest, dungeon, raid or BG premade. Result is same as above, worse gear for pvp, less opportunities and more time consuming group building/waiting overall.
- Alliance AH will have much less to offer and it will be much harder to sell anything. Farmers will appear (although they will only be able to farm anything at the low-pop hours) so the supply might normalize, but the demand will still be too low, making it very hard to make gold and afford anything that horde players can obtain with ease.

I like how you're acting as if 50 people will play Alliance. There will be thousands of Alliance players, with Horde having maybe 1000 more players.

[Skoobydoo]

This is how server first looked in tbc http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Guild_progression_(TBC) You might think horde is the stronger PVE faction but in TBC they where not. Alliance had better racials as a group and for PVE. Where Horde mostly shined on Archimonde in regards to racials.
But in retail what gave Horde the advatage was the number of shamans. not the racials.

i played in a world 45 guild, our problem was we had to force people to reroll shamans, so we could have the magical 1 in each group.
The Horde counterpart on the server did not have this issue. And therefore got a better raidsetup than we had.

In TBC building the Raid groups was a BIG part of the raids. Since buffs was groupbased not raidbased

On Private server we dont have this issue, and i would not be supriced if an Alliance or multiple Alliance guilds are among the top, on this server aswell

we already had this conversation about how pVe worked in TBC back in the days.as we said before first of all there was no faction transfer so...you play whatever you have pick in vanilla.many top pve guild change horde as soon as they release faction transfer in WOTLK i wonder why.but anyway i dont wanna start argue who is better and so on,but from what we have seen so far in TBC private servers majority of players roll horde(Unless there is some bonus for rolling alliance).and ofc there will be good alliance guild who will clear all the PVE content and spam premade and such.this guild can self sustain and they can roll any faction they want w/o any effect of the game experience.however thats small part of the population most people will join a random guild or have to pug raids/dungeon.they will also have to solo queue BGs.this will be the major part of population and alliance faction may turn unplayable for them.also on x5 rate server is so easy to reroll horde if you are unhappy with where you stay in alliance.thats how faction unbalance become bigger and bigger.even on retail its the same even now many of most populated and popular servers are dominated of 1 faction.

[ropi77]

I like how you're acting as if 50 people will play Alliance. There will be thousands of Alliance players, with Horde having maybe 1000 more players.

That's an interesting theory, considering that most TBC servers (probably including this one) have the pop cap set at 3-4k players.

[Marcus21]

That's an interesting theory, considering that most TBC servers (probably including this one) have the pop cap set at 3-4k players.

yea man, most WOLTK servers do not have 12000 pop cap either, so don't compare the numbers on warmane with other servers. Cinpe is right, thousands will play both factions, even if there is an imbalance, ally will still have ALL the population of other private servers in total...

[ropi77]

Every point is a mistake. EVERY POINT.

Like I said, this is no speculation but experience. You can choose to believe it or not, but I know what I saw and you will soon see it for yourself, most likely. I'm not worried though, like I said I'll just roll Horde (just like 70% of players will) if staff should fail to implement balancing measures before launch.

[Marcus21]

Like I said, this is no speculation but experience. You can choose to believe it or not, but I know what I saw and you will soon see it for yourself, most likely. I'm not worried though, like I said I'll just roll Horde (just like 70% of players will) if staff should fail to implement balancing measurements before launch.

lol...So you will go Horde if they do not fix the faction imbalance BEFORE launch? Until launch you don't even know any numbers genius, who plays, what plays. You need to give the server at least 1 month to be stable when it comes to population and factions if you want to have a real result.

Also, I think the staff have more experience than you when it comes to handling problems server-related and also have more knowledge of the game...so yea, your points are not exactly the truth either, just your point of view.

[Skoobydoo]

lol...So you will go Horde if they do not fix the faction imbalance BEFORE launch? Until launch you don't even know any numbers genius, who plays, what plays. You need to give the server at least 1 month to be stable when it comes to population and factions if you want to have a real result.

Also, I think the staff have more experience than you when it comes to handling problems server-related and also have more knowledge of the game...so yea, your points are not exactly the truth either, just your point of view.

well what he say is what have happen to every single TBC server in the past.also this very year there was TBC server with 4k+ players online and population was around 70-30% horde.
i dont understand why you think warmane is immune to faction unbalance since we have seen this problems before on molten/warmane.
btw i play alliance on every single warmane expansions and on retail for past 4 expansion.rolled alliance on HG TBC before it was shutdown not long ago,and from my experience i myself will never roll alliance in TBC again,unless there is some solid reason for it such as my friends are alliance or i have guild that i wanna play it.

[Marcus21]

It's still dumb to expect fixes before the problem even gets live, like you don't know anything yet. You expect stuff, ok, but wait for it first instead of spreading all that crap "sadly i'll roll horde, EVEN THOUGH I want alliance because faction imbalance" because it's getting really annoying. Warmane might experience this problem as bad as the other servers or might not, they might deal better with it or not. Still, you have to give the server a fair chance and a bit of time to be stable and to be able to talk about faction imbalance because for god sake, the first 1 month is irellevant since so many will join for the hype, then leave when something crushes their buble. And the whole disscussion started because someone said about alliance having a very hard time finding people for pve content because of the imbalance, which will not be true if they are lets say 4000 allies and 8000 hordes. Will this will be a problem for pvp and overall quality of life? Yes, of course, but the what I stated was reffering to pve.

[Skoobydoo]

It's still dumb to expect fixes before the problem even gets live, like you don't know anything yet. You expect stuff, ok, but wait for it first instead of spreading all that crap "sadly i'll roll horde, EVEN THOUGH I want alliance because faction imbalance" because it's getting really annoying. Warmane might experience this problem as bad as the other servers or might not, they might deal better with it or not. Still, you have to give the server a fair chance and a bit of time to be stable and to be able to talk about faction imbalance because for god sake, the first 1 month is irellevant since so many will join for the hype, then leave when something crushes their buble. And the whole disscussion started because someone said about alliance having a very hard time finding people for pve content because of the imbalance, which will not be true if they are lets say 4000 allies and 8000 hordes. Will this will be a problem for pvp and overall quality of life? Yes, of course, but the what I stated was reffering to pve.

12k people on TBC?ohh thats a very nice fantasy :D
btw if you find this topic annoying..well...i dont think anyone hold a gun on your head just dont read it:D that dont mean the rest of us cant discuss it :D

[Aiovous]

Like I said, this is no speculation but experience. You can choose to believe it or not, but I know what I saw and you will soon see it for yourself, most likely. I'm not worried though, like I said I'll just roll Horde (just like 70% of players will) if staff should fail to implement balancing measures before launch.

I wonder how many people are going to go Horde just because they expect the majority to go Horde. I wonder if the population imbalance would be a thing if people didn't expect it to be a thing and act according to their expectations.

Ever consider the fact that you're the problem?

[Marcus21]

12k people on TBC?ohh thats a very nice fantasy :D
btw if you find this topic annoying..well...i dont think anyone hold a gun on your head just dont read it:D that dont mean the rest of us cant discuss it :D

I don't find the topic annoying, I find some people here annoying because you can't deny expecting fixes before the launch for a problem the sever has not encountered yet because IS NOT RELEASED..is a very dumb thing. And the "i'll go horde because..." is so often used by people here that yes, it is annoying, because 1 nobody cares about that 2 is nothing constructive, just plain talking **** and making players feel more insecure about playing alliance, which will add to the problem

[Skoobydoo]

I don't find the topic annoying, I find some people here annoying because you can't deny expecting fixes before the launch for a problem the sever has not encountered yet because IS NOT RELEASED..is a very dumb thing. And the "i'll go horde because..." is so often used by people here that yes, it is annoying, because 1 nobody cares about that 2 is nothing constructive, just plain talking **** and making players feel more insecure about playing alliance, which will add to the problem

so your logic is " dont discuss a problems untill they become a problem" ? thats very nice logic.if your kid start using drugs will you wait till he become addicted or will you discuss the problem before that?or you will say "aa its too early to say wait few months and we will see"

and what do you mean you dont find the topic annouing but some people only.read the thread title dude what did you expect??people not talking about faction unbalance in thread with that name?and just because someone is annoying you dont mean he cant post.i find you annoying did that mean you must stop posting?