Then host your own raids and reserve what you want.
While the rest of the server laughs at your face for not knowing your own class.
You seem to be in a raiding guild alredy so why would you ever need to pug?
Just buy the trinket with DKP..
But I suspect your character is bought trough trade either before or after it was boosted in LOD runs.
No you didnt.
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Member
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Forum Veteran
DBW was and is still a hard no, but for the other trinket I've always seen STS accepted by both Icecrown pugs and raiding guilds alike for rets in rs25nm, there's absolutely no problem rolling and getting it.
If you're unlucky with drops, it seems a ret rite of passage to get 'soft stuck' at Tiny Abo nm and Herkumi/WFS nm/hc for some time.
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Member
Ret pala should not get prio on a trinket that isn't bis for them but is bis for many other classes. So no, DBW should not give ret prio. However, STS is their bis trink so they should get prio on that. Although I haven't actually seen STS denied to rets personally.
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Member
STS is BIS for other classes that utilize it better then what a support class like ret paladin does, hence why they should never get priority over others on it.
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Forum Veteran
Nobody would be playing support classes if that were the accepted loot system though! Thank god for democracy.
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Moderator
Personal opinion: "priority" is bull****. Either an item is good/useful/an upgrade to a class/spec or it isn't; if it is, they are in the pool to win it.
Especially in PuGs (although also in guild runs with new members) someone could be eternally locked out of an item that might be a bigger upgrade to someone else, but is also an upgrade for them, because of "priorities." Let RNG decide who gets it among all for whom it would be useful, no matter if marginally or "BiS." It's a random group of randoms, not some guild creating a static.
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Member
This is why DKP and RCL exists... To remove RNG and luck while rewarding activity within the guild.
Having some new member who just joined get to roll and win a bis item over a veteran player who has raided with the same guild for a long time is not acceptable.. Im sure most people can agree with that.
Absolutely no one with a brain is going to argue if a ret bids and wins STS trough DKP..
Activity + DKP = Loot.
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Moderator
Yeah, no. And not only because the talk is about PuGs, not guild runs.
I won't bother discussing it, so don't even try, just leaving my personal opinion: DPK is nothing more than a pyramid scheme scam, exploiting new members to gear up old ones with the promise that these new members will get to leech off the next batch of new members eventually; RNG is the only truly fair method, everyone has the same exact chance, no ifs or buts.
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Forum Veteran
Tbh any lootsystem besides rolling is just applying a bandaid to "fix" having an unstable roster or deal with other nonsense. Most guilds will simply run them because there's less "wasted" loot and their more or less stable members benefit from it, which I think is fine. If the guildraid at least offers a higher quality run/more bosses killed/less time waste than a random pug and thus sort of justifies lesser chances at loot for a general better experience/otherwise unavailable drops.
In a pug ofc everyone should be allowed to roll for upgrades if said item is actually considered an upgrade.
But: DBW, even heroic, is simply among the most worthless trinkets you can get as a ret. It's worse than literally any physical dps trinket you can get post toc10.
STS nh is debateable. In a pug rets should be ofc allowed to roll - in a guildrun I can see why people argue it's much better for actual arp classes. It's just very mediocre for ret.
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Moderator
That mentality that loot for new members is "wasted" is among my top reasons to moving on to better games and not caring about WoW. It says a lot about a guild when they don't trust their own recruitment to bring in good new members, so they have to treat them as second- (or third- or fourth-) class citizens, while older members fatten their mains and alts with gear the newbies helped earn. I mean, that's the usual excuse, ain't it? "Oh but but but they might get an item and leave!!!111!" Sure, keep saying that.
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Member
TAiaJ is bis either way. the other two even counting DC (idgaf about Alliance they can suck a anyway) are perfectly acceptable for a ret. nor should they feel any shame they don't have an STS.
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Member
This is such a hilarious thing to try and take credit for lmao
It was Prio to those two back in 2009-2010, my dude. Like, a decade before you're trying to take credit lmao
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Member
You're 100% wrong on that note, giving loot to everyone at random based on chance is not "fair" when raiding with a guild.
I however do agree on this statement. Distributing loot to new members ONLY when it's not an upgrade to the long-term guild members does make new members second class peasants meant to stroke the epeens of the old time guild members. This is why my guild has shied away from DKP in favor of loot council, still utilizing DKP but only as a tie-breaker on evenly-deserving and needing players for an item, and always DKPing for marks/tier upgrades.
Imho a good guild will gear up their new members as fast as possible so they're no-longer deemed "worthless trash that needs to be carried" as giving items to lower geared guild members usually results in the highest net-positive in performance and gear earnings for a guild. Ilvl 264 item upgraded to ilvl 271 on a top-end guildy doesn't mean as much as an ilvl 219 upgrade to a 264 upgrade.
My personally opinion is interjected here when you consider giving loot to a BRAND NEW guild member less than a week in, whom can just take all the upgrades, get 6k gs and ****off to the 39th core team of <FADE> or <Demonic Empire> or on Lordaeron, <Illusion> or <Argent Dawn> and take your guild down with it. This is where Loot council determines the importance of an item and whom needs it, based on veterancy in the guild. This is where big-ticket items like trinkets, LOD weapons and shadowmournes come to play.
All in all I don't like the way the warmane community conducts itself, handles loot distribution in pugs, treats the members of it's community, and I would kill for the knowledge and experience I have in guild leadership, community building, management and growth along with raid leadership 5 years ago when I started here. I wouldn't trade my current guild for anything. The true wow experience is being part of something bigger than yourself.
Regardless of the way guild's conducted themselves in 2009, that doesn't change the fact that pugs, in fact, did not distribute the loot with class and bis priority in mind, and still don't outside of this 1-iteration of items.
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Member
You're right. Same thing with Warriors using 2h weapons in ICC. I was actually the one that popularized that in 2022, and it's been a thing ever since. In pugs, of course. lmao
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Field Medic Moderator
I'm not entirely sure what you mean, so I'll respond to both possibilities.
If I assume that you mean they should be on equal footing when rolling for the item, then I agree.
If I assume that you're suggesting that Rogue/Warrior/Hunter/whatever else should have priority over a Ret because they get more DPS out of it, then I have to disagree with you. I don't believe that Ret should be punished due to its supportive nature by denying them their BIS because one of those other classes (and don't have the item) are present. I could understand this mentality if it were an item from a prior raid tier and progression for the next raid tier was actually something that mattered to the guild. But it's not. If you're killing 25hc Halion, progression has been finished for a very long time already.
Technically, if we're speaking about the true meaning of "fair", then this is actually as fair as it gets. There are no prejudices or biases on something that's pure randomness. What gets in the way of this is greed and a sense of being owed something.
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