You can roll NEED on whatever you decide. Just don't be salty when you get banned.
If you don't want to get banned tough, you will roll NEED only for the spec with which you pressed "Accept" as. Really simple, if there is a sword icon on your portrait, you roll damage, etc.
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Forum Veteran
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Forum Veteran
Your actions have consequences. You are free to roll need, and in turn other party members are free to file an report. GM's are free to give temporary bans to *****ic ninjas.
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Member
This is exactly the point, however the rules don't reflect this. currently the rules only state that you can be banned for needing on an "Off-Spec" item even though the dungeon sorts you into roles.
This also does not resolve the issue with items that have unclear destination and could be used by multiple specs/roles
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Member
But that's the problem brought to light no?!
Sure your actions have consequensec the problem is with when is there a ligitament grevence with ninja looting and not just someone being butthurt when they didn't get the item they wanted even though both players need it.
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Moderator
No, the "problem brought to light" as far as I can tell is a wording/semantics one. The rules talk about "off-spec," as it's the term players use when talking about rolling for something that isn't your role (no one asks to roll "off-role," all use OS when meaning something for a role they aren't playing), and that seems to have confused some.
If you need an item, you play the role it is for - or try your luck using Need, get reported and banned. Any case is a legitimate grievance, as you're the one breaking the rules. Even if the person is going to disenchant or delete the item to spite you, yes.
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Member
i just want a clear rule telling me what is ninja and what is not in a system where all stats are mixed and not streamlined.
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Forum Veteran
You can roll NEED on items for your MS. People told you this 10 times, what exactly is unclear to you?
If you have any doubts about an item, don't roll NEED on it. And WHAT item specifically are you talking about?
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Member
This probably needs updating in the rules then because pre-dual spec - off-spec to me and from the sounds of it to many others, means something other than your current specialization. I am concerned this kind of ruling would also severely decrease the number of people willing to tank/heal.
Also, with the current system as far as I can tell, if I was to ask my party at the start of the dungeon if they're OK with me rolling as DPS and they all agree but one decides to simply report me anyway with a carefully taken screenshot, I would get ban for 5 days without warning and have to go through what I can only assume is quite a busy appeals process.
Not to mention banning a number of people who might simply just be new to the game or unaware of these rules - which does not seem healthy for the long-term population of the server.
Don't get me wrong, I'm thoroughly against ninja looting and appreciate that there is a process and people dedicating time to deal with it - however the rules seem slightly ambiguous and prone to abuse.
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Member
My issue is with the semantics/wording indeed. If as a GM you are going to moderate and ban for ninja looting it should be clearly stated what is considered ninja looting. Since if it is not stated correctly what rules we are supposed to follow how can an individual abide by those rules.
a "Spec" is used in multiple ways in the history of wow and MS/OS rules are ways to easily deal with it in a guild or raid situation and is usually determined by their ruling as what is and isn't in "spec" .
However when you are put in a random group the system is a need/greed system, and this system's rules around need and greed are now distinct per role not per spec. It is being moderated as such by GM's so shouldn't the rules reflect this role based system and not a spec system then?
With the current rules if you have a party of a Warrior (tank), elemental shaman (caster dps), mage (caster dps), Shadow priest (caster dps) and an enhancement shaman (heal) and a Savage Gladiator Chain would drop if any of them needed they could be banned if someone chose to report it.
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Moderator
I'm just going to add that we've had these rules since 2016 and, while some people have argued certain things about it, this is the first time I recall anyone saying they didn't understand what was meant with "off-spec." Probably because, as I mentioned already, that's the wording players themselves use when meaning their role in the party.
PS: Don't ask at the start of the dungeon. Ask for individual items, if it happens. Hardly anyone would seriously write you a blank check to roll Need on everything for their spec/role.
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Member
I understand this, however I also understand that this is the first time that a RDF system is used on a vanilla realm. These issues generally aren't as prevalent in later expansions due to specs being more ironed out and items being more clearly dedicated to classes/specs.
This is not a point of misunderstanding, its a point of unclear and ambiguous rules that arise with vanilla itemization. I think the rules should be amended or clarified so that this better suits the environment that is the Onyxia realm
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Member
Also just to add on to this, I would always say my MS is what my talents reflects, but my role would be something different changing depending on what I get assigned while queueing RDF. While leveling you might queue as a healer/tank to get faster queue times you'd do that while leveling as another spec.
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Member
Sorry Obnoxious, with all due respect - that is absurd. Your suggestion is to instead of clarifying your main spec and getting an agreement at the earliest convenience, I should... when the item drops (possible hours into the run) "mind if I roll on this, I'm main spec DPS". I can spot a number of issues with this:
1. It'll appear opportunistic, no one will believe it or agree to it.
2. If they don't agree to it, you've wasted hours in a dungeon (playing a role you don't want to, but need to due to how rare tanks/healers are) to not get even a chance at the loot.
3. This doesn't address the issue of abuse - someone just reports you out of spite, even if it was agreed. (5 day ban or however long it takes someone to evaluate your appeal)
"Hardly anyone would seriously write you a blank check to roll Need on everything for their spec/role."
- I've played many private servers and this statement has frankly never been true - with the general lack of tanks/healers, even with an extra competitor for loot this has always been welcomed... hell, it's even been required to fill a group on many occasions.
But with the stance taken by yourself and the server, this is simply a bannable offense... can you see the issue with this. Am I misunderstanding something?
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Moderator
Last I'm going to comment on this: our players have been doing all that since 2016.
Perhaps the issue here is just that you need to adjust to how our rules work.
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Forum Veteran
I'll try to explain again, so you guys don't get banned;
Holy crap. Your MS is not what you randomly assign to yourself in your head. If your MS is healer and you Accept dungeon as damage - guess what? Your MS is damage. If you roll on healer items because you, in your head, are MS healer while you accepted que as damage role - players will report you.
1. irrelevant
2. irrelevant, play as dps to get dps items
3. sure, it's possible, I guess
It's hard to get players consent to roll items NEED for your OS, then such a thing has always been welcomed, make up your mind already.
What you are misunderstanding is that your hypotheticals and what's fair from your point of view is completely irrelevant. If you want to roll dps items as tank, make your own party an roll all day. Play with friends to split the loot in any way you want.
But as long as you play RDF, you obey the rules without all the big stories in your head. MS that system assigned and you accepted = can NEED, everything else = GREED. Doesn't matter whats your "actual" MS, how item will be disenchanted and how no one else needs it, etc.
