First I'd like to point out what effort means according to the dictionary.
"exertion of physical or mental power" is what effort means according to the dictionary, empirical proof can be found here (Btw, if you read the dictionary you might realize that you just said you don't make use of your brain while you do any activity within this private server community, I highly doubt you meant that so please make good use of the information that I provided you). The mere fact of us being here in this thread discussing this is an effort. Also, playing an obsolete game that's been around for longer than 8 years means for no reason that you or any person can't put any effort into it. I'm not assuming I know you, I called you out for being a conformist and even linked you a dictionary link so you do a quick read of what that word means, which would be great.
Big words? This might be the first time I see somebody measure a word's size, but alright. If words don't mean a thing then why are we here making use of words to communicate through this communication line that we call writing.
Playing a class to its full potential is fine, if you disagree with people calling other people out for not performing at par then that's your opinion, as Rifokelt has said, everybody has their own ideals. Some of us pay enough attention to not just realize of our own mistakes but also other people's mistakes, pointing them out means that we want them to get solved in order to achieve a better raid performance because as you've said, this is an 8 years old game and if we've kept playing it then maybe we should strive for an awesome performance. Also, if it's boring for you and other people it doesn't mean it's boring as a fact, it means that there's a group of people who think paying attention to other people's performance is boring, so don't generalize.
Lastly, if any person thinks that getting called out for mistakes or misconceptions is an invasion of personal space or that it's an offence, then maybe that person should really seek for help because people not agreeing with you or calling you out is a normal thing in discussions, and discussions take a huge part in human communication. And if a person can't deal with discussions, that means that person can't communicate properly.
P.s. You might say that you don't need my explanations but I highly doubt that claim as I do believe you need them.
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Member
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Member
there is only few bosses in icc where is actually worth using sunder as dps from tactical view. Never do sunder all 5 stacks at start, you will miss all your procs, and raid will lose more dps from you not being able to dps, than gaining from sunder (specially if you are one of the top dps). Dont forget sunder is not so "raid" buff it's only for physical and bleeds even don't benefit.
Edited: December 25, 2016
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Wind of Northrend
BT > WW > 1sec > BT > Sunder > 1sec
This is the rotation if u dont get the Instant Slam proc.
BT > WW > SA > BT > SA > SA > is the tryhard version which wont make u lose any DPS at all. Ive done it, ive seen it.
Its better to use Sunder than to do nothing.
If u have 2 fury warriors in raid, which u ussualy do, u will get 5/5 in no time cos the aplications stack.
Its true that on some bosses its not worth doing, for example LK 25m hc phase 3, where u constantly get teleported in Frostmourne and lose stacks, but again, if u are moving and u have a free GCD, use Commanding Should, use Demo Shout, use that god damn Sunder Armor.
On Halion 25m hc, where once u get in Shadow Realm, u can get 5/5 and have them for a long time, and buff almost every DPS inside, i NEVER see a single warrior do it.
Also, one more thing, as a fury warrior u should be the one doing, DPSing, Spikes on Marrow, Adds on Lady, Killing the Mage on Gunship, Helping with adds on DBS if u see range DPS is strugling (care for overagro, dont get hit by them at all cost), DPSing the oozes on PP, just whenever a wild add apears that needs to be bursted down, u are the one that should be doin that cos Fury Warrior is best at high burst DMG without any preparations. Make sure u never overagro and die. U wont top recount/skada if u die, ever.
Again, its all about principles, u wont wipe cos there is no Sunder Armor on the boss, ppl wont lose **** ton of dps, but u will be a better player for the raid.
If Sunder Armor was so irelevant, ppl wouldnt have used it on Retail, and Retail Fury Warriors guides wouldnt tell u to do it.
Marrow, Lady, DBS, Rotface, Fester, BQL, and LK p1, maybe p2 if u are able to track it and not lose it cos of valks. So there is few bosses in icc where stacking isnt worth doin, only cos u have to switch targets constantly, but again, if u can track it and know when to use it, u can keep the stacks on PP aswell.
P.S. UNBRIDLED WRATH IS THE MOST USELESS TALENT EVER. Dont use it. AT ALL. If u REALLY want to waste talent points there, and u are in some delusion that it actualy gives u any kind of DPS, waste atleast 1talent point less and get PIERCING HOWL. Piercing Howl is usefull on fights like, Lady: slowing the adds, DBS: slowing the adds, LK: slowing valks, and on top of that, when targets are DAZED, u do MORE DMG with HEROIC STRIKE. U can use it on trash constantly aswell, its helpfull in RDFs when u have to run away from adds that can hurt u, and so on...
Talents such as Booming Voice and Commanding Presence are way more usefull for the raid than Unbridled Wrath will be usefull for urself, even if the chance for that talent procing was 1000%, it procs from ur offhand hits only, that occurs every 2sec, that alrdy gives u **** ton of rage, its a fkin chance on hit, and its fkin 1, only 1, 1 rage for crying out loud.
Lets waste 4 talent points so i can have a chance for 1 extra rage when my offhand hits, yaaay!
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Field Medic Moderator
I agree. Sunder Armor is a pretty decent dps boost, though. Definitely worth getting for a 25-man raid. But would you say that it's worth gkicking someone because they don't use it? I mean, since that's essentially where this argument started. I'd say it would be a better choice to teach the Warrior to use it and explain to them the advantages it brings instead of immediately gkicking. I'm sure Drak would agree with that as well, but he has a tendency to express himself in a dramatic way much of the time.
About Unbridled Wrath, I'll agree with you so long as the Warrior in question is decently geared. A terribly geared Warrior can benefit from it though.
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Banned
Its always worth to use sunder armor as a filler simply because u dont lose any dps when doing it.
Even if u have only 30 sec uptime on the boss a single sunder armor stack already increases the raid dps more than rend does.
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Member
Sunder armor is definitely worth using in p3. It's an entire minute you have to DPS the LK, and frankly it'd be worth stacking fully even if it was only 20 seconds of good DPS you had. You can view each stack you apply as 2% or so more physical damage done by everyone in your raid that can do physical damage, and as a Fury warrior you'll always have the free GCD's to spare. Not to mention how quickly the debuff stacks up between 2 or 3 Fury Warriors applying it, anyways. A smart Fury Warrior will have used commanding shout both as soon as arriving in and shortly before exiting FMC where everyone is guaranteed to be in range of the buff (and as a very useful but unrelated aside, a smart Fury Warrior will also sit in Defensive stance inside FMC so he takes 14.3% less dmg than he'd take in Berserker stance!), and you don't need to Demo Shout if you have a bear tank, which if you don't have, you can simply make an arrangement between the other warrior over who keeps it up.
Also, the daze bonuses that abilities like Heroic Strike and Steady Shot have trigger only off very specific dazes like Concussive Shot, and the combat rogue Blade Twisting talent. The piercing howl slow doesn't trigger that even if the spell tooltip describes it as a daze.
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Member
Low gear entails occasionally forgoing main hand Heroic Strikes in favor of main hand auto-attacks, which has the hilariously over-compensating effect of supplying you with much more rage than you'll need and sometimes rage-capping you anyways, due to the nature of harder-hitting main hand attacks. Overall, Unbridled Wrath just has an exceedingly minuscule impact in every imaginable circumstance. The difference in DPS it makes is something like < 0.1% with all 5 points into it. Even if you choose not to opt for the Utility talents, there are stronger personal DPS talents like Improved Execute and Enrage (on some bosses).
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Field Medic Moderator
If you're ever rage capped and you're not spending rage to do something about it, you're playing the warrior wrong.
You're also missing the point. Can != should.
I don't want to be pulled into your specific-numbers-edick-stroking discussions. I simply posted here because I felt that the discussion should be taken in a less hostile direction.
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Member
You hold back on using HS because you know that might mean you can't use your next BT and WW, main hand HS becomes main hand auto-attack, main hand auto-attack crits and inadvertently rage-caps you, etc.
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Field Medic Moderator
If you're at 60 rage, there is literally no reason you shouldn't HS. Much less being at rage cap.
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Banned
>mfw senpai doesnt notice me ;_;
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Member
.....
I was talking about low-rage situations where you decide not to queue HS which often will have an effect of supplying you with massive amounts of rage as a result of forgoing said HS, not to aim for being rage-capped generally.
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Wind of Northrend
@Mercy
Noone will get a gkick for not doin Sunder Armor, i never went that far... As i said, u will still kill bosses, with or without SA stacks, also, nothing magical will happen if u keep 5/5 on the target all the time, its just a matter of beeing a better player for the raid. Its like Feral Druid not doin FF (if there is no other druid in a 10m raid for example).
As far as for teaching and explaining goes, i tryed my best with that. Ppl think that once they reach 100% arp they dont need Sunder Armor and that its a DPS lost wasting a GCD on that. Even after i explained that armor penetration and armor reductions are 2 completely diferent things, they still dont care cos that doesnt make sence to them. When u provide them with wowwiki link with detailed explanations, still no sunders on the boss. Ppl on warmane tend to stick on what they are doin, the comfor zone, and ignore any other suggestions that might increase their dps, or make them better players.
About Unbridled Wrath, i just dont see how will chance on hit that gives u 1 rage increase ur dps (u should NEVER go more than 3/5 in that talent so its not even at its full potential). U need 30rage for WW, 20rage for BT, and 15rage for Slam, i dont see 1 rage making a diference. Atleast for me it never does, i eather have the rage for the spell or i lack more than 1rage.
@DarkenedHue
If u are alone on SA stacking and u get lucky with Instant Slam procs, u will never be able to get 5/5 by the time u get teleported back inside. I said u should use SA regardless if u have a free GCD so yea... I agree with the Commanding Shout, Demo Shout, Defencive Stance thing inside the FMC 100%.
@Vasdos
AHAHAHA ****. Well u rarely do warrior lately anyway fgt.
I dont consider myself THE best player in the universe. For example, i suck dick when it comes to healing, and im not that great when it comes to DPSing as a caster, so im not perfect. And i did made **** ton of mistakes on the road i had when it comes to gaming, i still do, but i also have a constant desire to be better so whenever someone suggests something i try it out. If it works great, if not, nothing is lost exept the time i put in to test that. Altho stacking Sunder Armor is not something ppl should test, its simply the way how this game works but yea. Try new things. They might work in the end...
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Member
These are indeed the best players to have in a raiding guild. Not egotistic ***-clowns who can't handle criticism and don't like being told they're doing something egregiously wrong, nor mediocre players who couldn't give two ****s about bettering themselves for the guild, but players constantly looking for ways to improve their game and push their class to its limits. Kudos to you for having such an attitude :D
Edited: December 25, 2016
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Field Medic Moderator
Yep, most of what I was saying here was directed at Drakantas going on about gkicking people over it. Not so much with you, as I agree with the vast majority of what you've said.
I know that feeling. You just have to try and catch the people who aren't quite into the groove of "I know everything there is to know, and everything you say to me that is different from what I already do is automatically wrong". I find that people who are new to the server or are in more casual guilds tend to be more approachable.
I've always been of the opinion that "every little bit helps". 1 point of rage definitely doesn't matter in one rotation, but over the course of a fight it can make a difference for someone that doesn't get rage capped very often.
About rage costs, unless I'm talented or glyphed into some sort of rage cost reduction that I'm unaware of, WW costs 25 rage (not to nitpick here, I promise).
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