Engineering for ICC

[Sanzuk]

Hello everyone,

my guild is forcing me to drop my current profession and get engineering for ICC raiding, they say that it is a MUST to do the content. (im fury warr)

Any thoughts?

thanks in advance

[Dozorto]

Yes its must, git gud
yes, for everyone; the ultimate reason to get engi is a nitro boot upgrade
Why? Get your engi done, put on nitro boot and go raiding. Should be self-explanotry tbf
tldr icc>naxx, git gud

[sddd12]

ICC is pretty much faceroll. And compared to switching professions, getting your rotations perfect (getting and testing out a good one-button macro/supermacro) provides far more dps increase.

[angrylol]

If you are having problems nitro boosts can pull you up and correct mistakes that would lead to death/wipe.

Engineering is not MUST, but it's pretty amazing. And warriors have movement stuff without profs anyway.

[Kovachut]

Hey, OP, let me answer your question. The reason why Engineering is so popular is because you get two important enchants from it - "Hyperspeed Accelerators" (which is 340 haste for 12 seconds or *roughly*a passive 68 haste buff) and Nitro Boots (increased movement speed for 5 seconds and 22 crit). There's also a cloak enchant, that increases your agility by 22 and gives you a parachute. Hunters use it in combination with Disengage. You can also add a "Frag Belt" to your waist, which won't remove the socket from "Eternal Belt Buckle".

I don't know anything about fury warriors or what profession you are asked to replace, but I can tell you that WITH BIS GEAR haste becomes the best stat for feral druids. I mean, after we cap our arp, the next best thing to go for is haste and Engineering provides most of it. That said, the biggest reason why people take that profession are the Nitro Boots.

Before Frostmourne was released, I played on Icecrown. In ICC normal raids I don't think, that Engineering is a must, since you can deal with all mechanics with relative ease. However, if your guild is planning on killing LK 25 hc, then you might need the Nitro Boots for the 2nd phase. Let me explain:



In that phase, two very important mechanics will occur, which everyone should be aware of. 3 val'kyries will spawn, they will grab players and will throw them off the platform. They'll do that by taking the shortest route. Since their health is higher than on normal mode, those adds NEED to be cleaved/aoe-d down asap [I don't think it's necessary for me to point out, that the valks need to be CCd as well, but I might as well mention it in case someone blames me for missing that part]. However, that's when the second mechanic kicks in, which makes dealing with those adds harder. Defile - a void zone appears under a player's location and it GROWS the longer ANY player stays in it. The first two defiles are easy to deal with, because they spawn after the val'kyries swoop down. You just need to watch out for the timers and spread out prematurely before LK casts that spell. The third defile is different, though. It appears RIGHT BEFORE val'kyries appear and you can't spread out, because then the valkyries won't be stacked and you can't kill all of them on time. So here's what you do:

When the third defile is about to happen, people pop Nitro Boots 2-3 seconds before the timer for it ends. The person, who gets marked, runs behind the main tank and drops it there. The rest of the raid stays as it's depicted on the picture. Now, I must tell you something - my previous GM told me, that if a person didn't have Engineering, then they could use a Swiftness Potion or Dash/Sprint if they play as a feral druid or a rogue. I can neither confirm nor deny whether that statement is true, but I wanted to write it here.

Nitro Boots are helpful in other encounters too - on BPC when people spread out for Empowered Vortex, on BQL when a melee needs to bite an rdps and vice versa. On Halion, Nitro Boots are also quite useful, because the person with the debuff needs to move to the outer edge of the platform asap, in order to be dispelled and to drop the void zone there.

[angrylol]

Activating speed before third valks will lead to bad stack and people unble to cleave them.

How you actually deal with it is stack really nicely, decide to which side will Defile go and to which side rest of the group. Then everyone targets LK and right before Defile he will target player who will get Defile. That player activates any speed right as LK targets him and runs to designated side while rest moves a little to other side[without any speeds] while keeping a good stack. With speed activated on lots of players this will end up as chaotic 10yard spread with valks going everywhere. So don't do that. While nitro boosts help a great deal here to place defile really nicely, leaving space for next one, boosting raid dps because skipped unnecessary movement etcetc. It's not MUST by any means, it's properly doable without any speed increases on anyone.

[Kovachut]

Activating speed before third valks will lead to bad stack and people unble to cleave them.

How you actually deal with it is stack really nicely, decide to which side will Defile go and to which side rest of the group. Then everyone targets LK and right before Defile he will target player who will get Defile. That player activates any speed right as LK targets him and runs to designated side while rest moves a little to other side[without any speeds] while keeping a good stack. With speed activated on lots of players this will end up as chaotic 10yard spread with valks going everywhere. So don't do that. While nitro boosts help a great deal here to place defile really nicely, leaving space for next one, boosting raid dps because skipped unnecessary movement etcetc. It's not MUST by any means, it's properly doable without any speed increases on anyone.

I don't know if I didn't explain it well, but I'd like to clarify some things:

This was the strategy we used in our previous guild <Storm>. Since DBM was a must, everyone had it and it gave a warning to the person, who was marked with defile and needed to move out asap. The reason why everyone had to pop their Nitro Boots 2-3 seconds before the third defile was to avoid any unnecessary delays or latency issues (I guess). When the LK cast the third defile, ONLY the person with the debuff ran away and dropped the void zone behind the main tank or at a certain angle. That was the designated area you talked about earlier. Everyone else WAS STACKED and we stood in a specific place (check the picture above). Since val'kyries always choose the path to the closest outer edge of the platform, we picked the beige dot, because it gave us max distance to deal with those adds. That was the logic according to my previous GM and it worked well tbh. The three valks were stacked pretty much always.

And we also had plenty of room to spare with. That's because we had already planned a zone, where nobody should go during our defile prespread. If you look at this picture:



Everyone was obligated to drop the first two defiles either to the right or to the left side of the teleporter. After we dropped them, we all returned to our initial position (the beige dot in the first picture). We left the path behind the teleporter free, so that we didn't have to step on any defiles while dealing with the valks.

[edit] Your suggested strategy is, admittedly, a good one. I will inform the GM of my current guild about your idea, when the ICC patch launches. Thanks for sharing it!

[angrylol]

Yea, as long as it's coordinated that will work either way,

thing about strategy i said is that by the time DBM warns it almost too late, so those few moments you gain by reacting to LK's target switch are crucial, especially if player don't have speed/has CD on it(and doesn't forget his own characters name lmao). Depends on experience of players I guess, if everyone gets it right LK turns into free loot quite easily, since that point is common downfall for lots of raids.

[Kovachut]

thing about strategy i said is that by the time DBM warns it almost too late, so those few moments you gain by reacting to LK's target switch are crucial

You might be right, but tbh I don't remember whether there was a delay in DBM's defile warning. The last LoD raid I participated in was back in March and my memories are kinda vague atm. So, I won't argue with this statement.

especially if player don't have speed/has CD on it(and doesn't forget his own characters name lmao)

If we are talking about Nitro Boots, then the player shouldn't really have CD on the buff. Back when I used to raid ICC, I afforded to pop my Nitro Boots when I had the disease in phase 1. That's because the cooldown went off by the time the third defile was about to happen. But even if someone doesn't get marked by the Necrotic Plague, they should save their Speed Boosts for the third defile. They shouldn't waste them on minor things. If they do, then that's a misplay.

especially if player don't have speed [...]. Depends on experience of players I guess, if everyone gets it right LK turns into free loot quite easily, since that point is common downfall for lots of raids.

True. It really depends on the players' experience and their will to adapt to a certain strategy. That's why I want to thank you for sharing yours above, because I suspect we might need if if few of my guildies have engineering by the time we do ICC hc. Moreover, thanks for proving that that profession isn't a must.

[Dozorto]

ofc its a must, in a same way berserk on weapons/flask used/dbm are a must
is it possible to go through icc without those? yes
would it be retared? also yes
>>> ICC is easy, if you make it easy<<<

[Ksen6]

It depends what are your current professions. U didnt write enough information for us to determinate it but overall, Engineering is rly good to have for progression.

ICC is pretty much faceroll. And compared to switching professions, getting your rotations perfect (getting and testing out a good one-button macro/supermacro) provides far more dps increase.

Yeah gl facerolling buffed ICC when 80%+ ppl on this server cant even properly dps/heal. 90%+ cant even create proper bis lists for their own specs (math problems). It will take a while before most of the "solid" guilds clear it.

[Sanzuk]

really really helpful, thank you so much for taking your time to write it all done

[Gleveen]

The only reason to have engi is for Halion HM for some specs, all other content require it only in case if raid are unaware of the boss mechanics and sleeping during the fight (all mechanics that require to cover some distance usually come not from nowhere and have DBM anounce so you can prepare for it (defile for example)). So on one hand you need to invest and drop previous profession and on other just be aware about boss mechanics and keep attention (tho using engi in the right time require attention too). But as fury warrior even on Halion you can pretty much avoid void damage with charge so... i'm really interesting what arguments your guid have in defense of neccessity of engi on warriors for clearing content. THe only thing i can come up with if it's your guild is the top tier and aim for server first or something and engi and its speed boost will help to decrease dps loss on some mechanics (min/max case).