WotLK Scourge Strike and Crit Chance

[angrylol]

This is what a pathetic attempt at trolling and mental degradation looks like.

Current state bdk is very bad

[Beanlord]

1- Rikofelt: If you don't wanna rely on RNG you go for t10 legs, RS hc ring. That's everything that I said, Might of blight- Scourge reaver legplates works a bit better in short fights were you didn't got dodged/ missed IT ( you can still miss it with 8% hit and it's proven). You seem to know about dk so I don't know why you had such criticism about my reply.

I'm aware why you and Gnimo choose to play this way. What I'm saying and what has been found out way before either of us played this game is that the BiS that doesn't cap expertise is superior overall in terms of dps. If you feel like you can compete against a sim running millions of iterations on a fight then I don't know what to say.

All is RNG based, you sacrifice a bit of stats to not get dodged on melee/SS/PS. I wanna see your dps when you miss 2 PS in a row at the start of the fight. You're taking the dodge/IT miss problems out. All that's left is the CRIT RNG /Unholy str procs, but that's something you can't solve. As I said above, if you ain't getting dodged that much going for haste on pants and Might of blight does better.

Yeah, rng (of dbw procs amongst other things) will most likely decide the outcome in an ideal scenario where 2 (or more) unholy dks duke it out on a tank and spank fight. Not capping expertise is a calculated risk that will pay off more often than not and the dps difference between the two itemisations isn't exactly trivial. At any rate I don't mind your and Gnimo's playstyles. What I'm against is misinformation. The retail bis list with MoB, dbw and vdw legs is the one with the highest potential damage and best overall damage output. Feel free to play w/e you want but unless you can beat the sims don't tell people that expertise is somehow more worthwhile. A lot of players believe this w/o being very knowledgable about the spec/class and it's a pain to argue with them.

To illustrate this with a different, albeit similar case, a lot of warriors still don't realise that at bis levels of gear haste isn't useless at all, despite what some deluded chap wrote in his guide way back when molten was a thing. It's just vexing to read stuff like this.

Current state bdk is very bad

Consult our mighty overlord and your fellow living meme Dike on that one bruv.

[Gnimo]

https://imgur.com/a/1lI3oO0

Here you go, perfect example of my rng, and why I go for 279 hit and more than 5 expertise.
The moment I go below what I had, this happens, on a freaking Dummy in Ironforge.
This didnt happen with 279 hit and 17 expertise. :D

[angrylol]

Consult our mighty overlord and your fellow living meme Dike on that one bruv.

Just pointing out your hypocrisy.

On topic:
Please give me that sim you all are using. I want that sim that does millions of variables. I want to make sure that sim's output is exactly the same as I do in game. If sim shows 10k dps, I wana see 10k dps on that boss.

[Beanlord]

Just pointing out your hypocrisy.

When me meming a numbskull like dike is considered hypocrisy. Do tell more.

On topic:
Please give me that sim you all are using. I want that sim that does millions of variables. I want to make sure that sim's output is exactly the same as I do in game. If sim shows 10k dps, I wana see 10k dps on that boss.

I'm not sure why you're acting as if you don't know it. The name of it has been dropped plenty of times on other dk threads. It's called Kahorie's.

[angrylol]

Thanks, I have that sim. Maybe some other version where they forgot to write in "millions of scenarios".

So i'm memeing you for going bat**** over "lost" 200 dps with Glyph of disease, but you memeing about something that someone said a year ago and no one even remembers is legit mental peak.

I'm sorry, I never intend to make fun of anyone less fortunate or anything like that.

[Beanlord]

Thanks, I have that sim. Maybe some other version where they forgot to write in "millions of scenarios".

Millions of iterations, not scenarios, know the difference. It's perfectly possible and doable, but you're such a smart chap that I'll leave you to wonder on how people do it.

So i'm memeing you for going bat**** over "lost" 200 dps with Glyph of disease,

What I'm going "bat**** over" is people misinforming the community. If you and any other guy doesn't wanna put the effort in order to optimize your dps be my guest.

... but you memeing about something that someone said a year ago and no one even remembers is legit mental peak.

I'm sorry, I never intend to make fun of anyone less fortunate or anything like that.

You're such a goofball. I'll continue making fun of dike and of you for your bull**** claims for as long as I want. I'd have expected some better covert insults than mental peak and making fun of the less fortunate but I guess one can't expect much from you. If you've nothing to contribute to the thread/current discussion in the thread why do you even post? To be made a laughing stock like on that other thread about disease glyph?

I'm also waiting on my hypocrisy btw. Don't leave me hanging.

[xeki0n]

@gnimo u nub arp udk is best u all suck

[angrylol]

Sims are a set of same rolls ran million times. While useful, it is pretty far from what is actually happening when you play. I still wait some screenshots where your dps on some boss is exactly the same as sim showed. I understand why you are so defensive, with some corner of mind you realize you have half the picture at best. All you got is "someone else said so" and "my sim showed", and to explain something is beyond you. I proposed that Glyph of Disease is the best, and lower crit just contributed to that statement. And it's not about that, while looking at numbers it kind-of is dps loss, but there are things at play with it that has nothing to do with WoW. Ancient things, like the fact that brain like rhythmic things. And when some dodged Plague Strike messes it all up because you, in theory, one day could do more dps when stars align. So, here is another bonkers idea - use glyph of disease if you go low expertise. But I guess sim didnt tell you that. But hey, you can repeat me about this and feel smart, I don't mind.

[Gnimo]

Using Glyph of Disease wont help you the slightest.
Again, the main reason you DONT want to use it is simply:
PS + IT + BS does more dmg than SS (normal hit) + Pesti, ALWAYS, which is 50% of the times for sure (since SS wont crit more than that).
PS + IT + BS give 35 runic power, while SS + Pesti give 30 runic power.
On the other hand, you LOSE dmg if u have to SWITCH targets and you cant hit them with Pestilence (or if target dies before the new one spawns).
On top of all that, you LOSE dmg on Frost Fever AND on Wandering Plague which is ANOTHER loss for GoD.
The 1 Extra GCD wont help you, ever.
Too much runic power? Use DnD and spam Death Coils.
Dodged Scourge Strike? Use DnD and spam Death Coils, or simply use DnD to make up for the lost GCD.
How do I know this?
Noone told me, I tryed both in game.

There will be no gain while using GoD.
Easyer rotation? please... Brain liking rhythmic things? what?

Im not gona try and use my experience as something for you to believe in (since it will be useless), but lets try and use something from someone that knew more about the class back then, than both of use do now.
http://forum.warmane.com/showthread.php?t=326654

"Major
Single Target
Glyph of Dark Death
Glyph of the Ghoul
Glyph of Icy Touch

Multiple Target / AoE
Glyph of Death and Decay
Glyph of Disease
Glyph of Icy Touch"

If you think there is NO reason why GoIT is better than GoD on single target, than i dont know what else to tell you...

As for the idea of: Lower Expertise > GoD, again, no.
Most of the DKs that are with me in raid, and play Unholy, almost never get that many dodged attacks as I do, and believe me, Im always looking at UDKs recounts, especially if i see them running 5 expertise, just to see how ****ed up my RNG really is.

P.S. "I proposed that Glyph of Disease is the best, and lower crit just contributed to that statement."
This, does not even make sence.
If this means: GoD is better if Scourge Strike is not critting properly, than my god, go on a freaking dummy and try it for yourself.

[Beanlord]

Sims are a set of same rolls ran million times. While useful, it is pretty far from what is actually happening when you play.

Wrong. Kahorie's in particualr has an RNG seed that you can change at any point and it's not far from what you have on fights. It's apparent that you've not tried configuring it at all. There are setting for your latency, for how a fight pans out, what talents, buffs, enchants, gems, gear, runic power gains, etc. Back up your statement or stfu.

I still wait some screenshots where your dps on some boss is exactly the same as sim showed.

I provided you with the sim name. As I already said in a previous post you can deal with the rest on your own. It's not my job/responsibility to baby feed you information.

I understand why you are so defensive, with some corner of mind you realize you have half the picture at best. All you got is "someone else said so" and "my sim showed", and to explain something is beyond you.

> comes into thread with a universally accepted false claim that isn't even part of the discussion
> rightfully gets called an imbecile
> continues with another needless post
> gets **** on further
> acts as if he doesn't know how to use a sim and tries not to make fun of the "less fortunate"

Sound familiar? I sure am being defensive though. Anyways, what I have is the research of the people that played this expansion when it was current. The sim is based on math. Feel free to chime in with a better alternative that isn't based on anecdotes or on your biased opinion.

I proposed that Glyph of Disease is the best, and lower crit just contributed to that statement. And it's not about that, while looking at numbers it kind-of is dps loss, but there are things at play with it that has nothing to do with WoW.

Pray tell, what does one look at besides damage done as an unh dk?

Ancient things, like the fact that brain like rhythmic things. And when some dodged Plague Strike messes it all up because you, in theory, one day could do more dps when stars align.

It literally does not ****ing matter what our brains like. Dps-ing isn't some art form, it's cold, hard math and absolutely nothing more. There is general awareness at play, but that's is naturally assumed and thus not relevant in the slightest. On tank and spank fights 100% uptime and optimal rotations are assumed, and for all intents and purposes of a heroic raider that's pmuch what you have and do on such fights. There are no starts to allign for a statistically superior setup to beat a statistically inferior one. More often times than not it will happen. Verstehen Sie?

So, here is another bonkers idea - use glyph of disease if you go low expertise. But I guess sim didnt tell you that. But hey, you can repeat me about this and feel smart, I don't mind.

Here's another even more ludicrous idea, stop being a ****ing ****ter, eh?

[angrylol]

This is hilarious.

it+ps+bs is very minor gain over ss. One way you do this damage iwth one gcd, other way it takes 4.5 seconds. And 3 seconds is a long time when you dont have any. There is a difference - you do 2 ss+refresh diseases or or do bit over half of that damage with it+ps+bs and get those insane op WP ticks. Doing 75k(ss ss dc) dmg or 50k dmg(it ps ss) on, lets say, DBS beasts is not good at all if you can do 1% more dps on boss, right? Allows use of other stuff without any delay on rune regen too.

With GoD if one disease didnt tick WP other might, sure it is dps loss compared to having that 1.5 sec so both can proc it in between. That is most significant loss, with around 1% dps on single target. With GoD you can refresh it with IT+ps when situation calls for it.

And yeah, brains enjoy rhythm. It's not something I made up, it is known phenomena.

I'm still waiting examples of sim results showing exactly what you get ingame. Shouldn't be a problem since you are master at configuring it for million scenarios Rifokelt.

I'm sorry if I require some logic behind my thought. And you going defencive about how stupid I am, how someone else said so and other stuff because it's not your job to feed me, maybe you need therapy or something.
Look, Gnimo gave some logical examples and it makes sense, there is truth in there. I just see something else too.

[Gnimo]

"Doing 75k(ss ss dc) dmg or 50k dmg(it ps ss)"

How can you even compare SS SS DC with IT PS SS?
This would work ONLY if you would have that extra free GCD and AFK while doing the IT PS SS rotation.
With IT PS rotation and Dirge 2/2 you dont have a free GCD nor you lack runic power for anything (especially if you know how to use Blood Tap with Blood Strike in rotation). So, the argument that 1 extra GCD while using GoD is valuable is FALSE.

Again, I dont care what you use tbh, u might aswell go for arp gems as far as im consirned, but the logic you are showing here is false on so many points.

Let me try to compare it exactly point by point and maybe rip it once and for all.
During the rotation you have 12 GCDs:

PS IT BS SS BS DC
SS BS SS BS DC DC
You generate 125 runic power, you spend 120 runic power, so you are left with 5 extra every rotation cycle.

SS BS SS BS DC DC
SS BS SS Pesti DC DC
You generate 120 runic power, you spend 160 runic power, so you need to do HoW instead of 1 of those Death Coils 3/4 rotation cycles.

So the dmg in rotations is:
PS IT BS SS BS DC SS BS SS BS DC DC (constantly)
vs
SS BS SS BS DC DC SS BS SS Pesti DC HoW (every 4th rotation should have DC instead of HoW)
Do the math how much DMG lost is that...

Now, lets compare the Glyphs.
Glyph of Diseases = 0 dmg increase.
Glyph of Icy Touch = 20% dmg increase on Frost Fever, which will increase the dmg of Wandering Plague by a same amount when it procs from Frost Fever.

Now, lets compare the "rhythm" in the rotation.
There not a single thing that is different in how many buttons you actually need to press.
SS = SS, BS = BS, DC = DC, IT = HoW, PS = Pesti
5 different spells, 5 different binds.

If this does not prove something for you, i dont know what will.
Again, i dont care what you use on your char, saying and advising people to use GoD, just cos YOU feel its a DPS gain duo to some mambo jumbo rhythmic and easy to play logic, is not going to help anyone.
If you want to slack sure, go for GoD, if you want to maximise your performance, that is not the glyph for you.

P.S. If you have Kahories, you can do the sims yourself.
On top of it all, i doubt that you have that much of info IN GAME, on Warmane, to back up and compare the results from the sims.
Sims do 100 DBS attempts, while you do 1 per week.
Unless you have 100 DBS attempts recorded, and from those you can calculate the AVARAGE dps you do (when u get both **** and good rng), than you could compare the sim with actual in game DPS. This is coming from a guy that knows what "BiS" lists sims advise you to use, and ignores them to cap (on a Frost DK DPS) or increase (on a Unholy DK DPS) expertise (and Hit, on Unholy) so he can reduce the chance of bad rng raping him.

You cant compare the sim with in game DPS (unless you have as many attempts recorded/screenshoted in game, as the sim did), you cant compare DPS of 2 Unholy DKs from 2 different raids, and you cant compare the DPS of 2 DKs using Shadowmourne DBW, unless they had EXACTLY the same RNG on proc and soul fragment generation (dont forget the uptime of Fallen Crusader aswell).

[Diemtee]

...to avoid random too many dodges on Plague Strike and beside using rs ring with overcap hit rating more then u needed 8% is more then enough or even 7.99% is more then enough and u giving kiddo excuses "to avoid random misses on Icy Touch". almost 2 years i play uhdk and since i change gear and even without exp gear only exp from talent + troll racial which all i have is 5 exp. all i got from LOD fight the longest boss fight i got 1or2 on dodge or parry on Plague Strike and even with 7.99% hit rating never miss once on everyweek im playing the dks....

First of all, interpunction helps a lot in making your posts understandable.
Second, hit rating has nothing to do with dodges and parries, as one could conclude from your post (why I mention punctuation in the first place). Furthermore, if you have anything under 9% melee or 11% spell hit rating, you WILL miss icy touches. The statement that you don't miss with 7,99% hit is pure bullcrap. If you have anything less than 26 expertise, you WILL get plague / scourge / blood strikes dodged (or parried if you're wack enough to not dps from behind). And when that happens 2 times in a row, opening on (let's say) Halion in RS, you'll maybe start to think of capping it. I do however see the point and reasoning why someone would go lower expertise but that's not me. I personally can's stand seeing my attacks being dodged, or them missing due to not capping expertise and hit. But that's just me.

And btw, you all are talking about rotations and shizz, yet I didn't see anyone dropping ERW and summon garg in it. So all those rotations you people wrote about are wack. Like, you all write PS - IT - BS - SS - BS - DC.... and that DC is where you all failed.

As for angrylol talking about rhythm, I can perfectly understand him. I tried using GoD as unholy and it totally broke my feel of the class. I'm so used to PS - IT disease refresh that my dps with GoD dropped significantly.

As for trinkets, I'm using DBW hc just cause at that time of Solace / Encore guild, no one needed it in raid and I got it cheap. I'd replace it with heroic DV in a heartbeat if I could (ofc, not thinking or planning to donate for it), simply due to those crap crit procs. I swear, it feels like Taunka for me procs 90% of the time on trash fights and 10% of time on boss fights.

To conclude this semi wall-o-text, you all should fight less, cause the changes in dps between these play styles are minor but they could impact certain players (for example) in a way as GoD on unholy (negatively) impacted my game play. You should try out different stuff and see what fits YOU. 100-200 dps difference ain't nothing important. 1-2k is. So unless you talk about such a difference, all this arguing and fighting was a waste of time. Cheers and take it easy.

P.S. Diemtee is my DK on Icecrown.

[Gnimo]

"And btw, you all are talking about rotations and shizz, yet I didn't see anyone dropping ERW and summon garg in it. So all those rotations you people wrote about are wack. Like, you all write PS - IT - BS - SS - BS - DC.... and that DC is where you all failed."

This.............................................. ........ (: