1. The only bad thing about the rule change is imo:
    * It is annoying for people that made more than 25 characters that they no longer can play those extra characters in their team. Not a huge issue and they can still use those characters for wg weekly quests and things like that.
    * The changing of rules means that the rules might get changed further in the future. Same thing with shutting down low population servers also kinda means this. So it kinda says that at any moment multiboxers might no longer be allowed to play their teams anymore, if warmane decides it is no longer worth allowing it. (although I do understand limiting the characters to 25 and also shutting down servers where almost noone play on since it cost money to run them)

    The positive things are:
    * Less risk of massive multiboxing teams causes lag when they all use abilities at the same time.
    * Since there is no cap on amount of players AoE can hit of many spells it makes those spells less ridiculous, would probably be very stupid to have someone multibox 120+ druids and keep 20 Starfall active 100% of the time. Shamans also makes melee useless against them when they can 1 shot any amount of melee that come within close range of them. (I think shamans should still be able to 1 shot any amount of melee with fire nova and if not enough then add thunderstorm and they should be guaranteed to die, but still a little better than before)
    * If warmane is being good, then the change should mean that the rule never have to change ever again (unless they decide it is not worth allowing multiboxers which is still a risk, but they won't need to change it because things getting out of hand with too big teams or anything like that).
    * No need for people to feel they need to make a bigger team because of other multiboxers. If someone has a 25 man team, then someone made a 40 man team, then the 25 boxer might felt like they needed to go up to 40, then someone goes up to 80...

  2. 99% of people who think multiboxing is a positive force - are other multiboxers.
    Hahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaah! aaahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaahhh! oh man.. oh man.. yeah.. that's good.. that's the good stuff.. hahahahahaha!.. 99% of --hahahahahahahaha!!!... ahhh... aaaahh... lemme wipe my tears.. aahhh.... *ahem* No.

    Multiboxing seems to clearly be such an issue these days and warmane has already taken all the donation from multiboxers they can just end it.
    I saw this coming. Maybe I should've shared that with the rest. I know you faced huge losses, so I feel for yah. Fortunately for me, this was obvious from the start. I was a GM for a sister server with Arena-Tournament. Our guy was very weary involving any of OUR staff with theirs. Just a code exchange. I think we helped them with the WOTLK project a little before we shut down. Long story short, red flags, but considering what happened here with Molt-down, I'm glad I heeded the advice of the guy who put his complete trust in me within a week.

    If someone has a 25 man team, then someone made a 40 man team, then the 25 boxer might felt like they needed to go up to 40, then someone goes up to 80...
    Technically, this is false. The idea can exist, but not everyone is as willing, or mentally strong enough to do this. Most just stop at 40. Why? because it's a raid size. It's complete. Going 80 is a completely different world. 120 is a goal I don't think anyone has reached, nor would they have the mental energy to do another 40, AGAIN. You people don't understand that the difficulty is NOT in the end game, it's getting TO the end game, without giving up. Sure you have an army, but you gotta do the whole cycle again, along with all the keybinds and anything extra you have with your former team. This is work, not fun, and people play this to have fun. So think about it. Why would someone commit themselves to something bigger, when there is a limit that already exists for them? where have you seen a multiboxer of 80 characters? and what could they do, that a 40 cannot? Nothing. The answer is nothing. 40 is the complete size, and anything beyond, is just extra baggage to scare people. You can't do anything with 80-100. Sure, you can sit in wintergrasp, but all day? to 1 shot anything? 40 does that.

    I'm still against this change for that reason. You're considering there's willing people out there today. If that were true, this server would be multiboxer-only already. You're actually giving this lazy society the benefit of the doubt, that it will be filled to the brim, full of committed and mentally strong individuals. Stop kidding yourselves, that ain't never gonna happen. People are lazy and simply prefer to destroy opportunities, rather than embrace them.

    "If I can't do it, no one else should be allowed to." Is the perfect example of what the majority of people prefer to believe today, and it's not going to change.

    FYI: I'm not bashing anyone for being lazy. It's a lifestyle choice/situational preference for said activity. I'm extremely lazy at fighting games, but I excel in this. My choice.
    Edited: October 30, 2020

  3. If there's something that shocks me the most about the "modern gaming community" is the lack of self-awareness and the unlimited selfishness, and this thread is a prime example of it.

  4. Hahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaah! aaahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaahhh! oh man.. oh man.. yeah.. that's good.. that's the good stuff.. hahahahahaha!.. 99% of --hahahahahahahaha!!!... ahhh... aaaahh... lemme wipe my tears.. aahhh.... *ahem* No.
    Please point to someone - anyone - in this thread who is not a boxer, but appreciates what boxers do to the server. One person.

  5. Since when having dozens of dummy runners running in the name of a single runner, jumping in front of the other runners to keep them from properly running, and not caring about winning individually since they are just there to give one person a huge advantage, would have anything to do with speed? And, even more absurdly than the nonsensical comparisson, thinking that limiting the amout of extra runners is "being uncool"?
    I totally agree with your statement, which truthfully portrays a very destructive playstyle. But then, if Warmane knows how anti-competitive and unfair it is, then why not limit it for real?
    Because 25 toons in PvP are a ton, and allow to kill a player at each gcd or even a raid in few seconds (starfall *cough cough*).
    5 toons max would be a reasonable figure and much more fair limit in PvP, at least in BG contexts (Wintergrasp battle included). It would actually require the multiboxer to coordinate with the bigger team, instead of letting the multiboxer BE the team.
    Also one may just think "multiboxer is OP he will annihilate opponents", but what if a 25 toons multiboxer is not really skilled/geared and joins Wintergrasp battle or Isle/AV? Well, then he's dooming his team to lose, as he's occupying 25 spots without any real utility; and this is very unfair, too.

  6. I totally agree with your statement, which truthfully portrays a very destructive playstyle. But then, if Warmane knows how anti-competitive and unfair it is, then why not limit it for real?
    Because 25 toons in PvP are a ton, and allow to kill a player at each gcd or even a raid in few seconds (starfall *cough cough*).
    5 toons max would be a reasonable figure and much more fair limit in PvP, at least in BG contexts (Wintergrasp battle included). It would actually require the multiboxer to coordinate with the bigger team, instead of letting the multiboxer BE the team.
    Also one may just think "multiboxer is OP he will annihilate opponents", but what if a 25 toons multiboxer is not really skilled/geared and joins Wintergrasp battle or Isle/AV? Well, then he's dooming his team to lose, as he's occupying 25 spots without any real utility; and this is very unfair, too.
    Because the staff has also mentioned they're okay with people playing this game in their prefered way, and that implies that they are okay with multiboxing. They added a limitation because due to new hardware this could very soon reach a more ridiculous situation that obviously nobody wants, so they're preventing this situation from happening.

    Nobody likes multiboxing except multiboxers, the staff knows this, and the majority of multiboxers know this aswell. However, just as ganking lowbies is the prefered gamestyle of some, multiboxing is their prefered gamestyle. And ultimately that's totally fine, despite our opinion against it. This thread was made as an informative one with the possibility of have a civil exchange of opinions with the changes and some feedback. But as we all can see the topic has been derailed and it has become a venting/pointing fingers thread. Really sad that some multiboxers are so unaware of how the rest of the players see them, and really sad for the ones that see it and yet they are getting ****ed on by their own peers, the absolute state of 2020 and the culture of the professionally offended.

    Which on a real note, I truly want to praise the pidgeon friend for being so humble and realistic on this matter. Totally unexpected in a really positive way, kudos to you.

  7. Im totaly with you on this one.
    Wintergrasp is not enjoyable anymore.
    50% of the spots are taken by multiboxers.
    But I guess warmane is fine that they are using 3rd party software.

  8. Imo 25 character limit is a good thing.
    I don't understand in the first place why some multiboxers want to play even more than that.
    The game just becomes ridiculous boring. With over 25 chars you can't do any PvE content and in pvp you barely find a challenging fight.
    25 chars are already enough to be able to park them in the capital city of the opposite faction and sit there for hours without having any challenging fight. So why would you want to go even beyond that?

    I for one started with 5 chars and then later on increased it to 10.
    With my 10 BiS geared chars it's already hard to find in Wpvp equal strong opponents for a interesting match.
    Even in 40 man BGs I can barely find challenging fights.
    In the end I got so bored of my 10 man team, also due to the limited content that I was able to play with so many chars, that I decided to go back to 5 man teams and I find it much more enjoyable/challenging.

  9. This is pretty cool of you, and I would say a healthy approach to the game.

    Sadly there are people who don't really have an interest for challenging/fair fights and are just there to bore opponents. I remember that many-shamans guy on Icecrown who would oneshot whole alliance team just as it entered Wintergrasp battle; he was there just to annoy people with his toxic playstyle, and the server shouldn't have allowed that.

  10. Ban Multiboxing altogether. How do you justify banning people for botting but not multiboxing - it is the same thing. If the multiboxer had to click 25 times, to have 25 characters cast a spell, no problem. But to cast 25 spells with one button press, that is a bot running 24 characters.

    At a minimum, ban the people who take their multiboxers into cities and just camp the AH. Ruins the game.

  11. Ban Multiboxing altogether. How do you justify banning people for botting but not multiboxing - it is the same thing. If the multiboxer had to click 25 times, to have 25 characters cast a spell, no problem. But to cast 25 spells with one button press, that is a bot running 24 characters.
    Botting and multiboxing is far from the same, multiboxing requires manual input where botting relies on automation. Please do us all a favor and read up on things before you post useless, non constructive bs on the forum. Your blind hatred isn't doing anyone good.

    https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Mult...ore%20machines.

    At a minimum, ban the people who take their multiboxers into cities and just camp the AH. Ruins the game.
    If you don't wanna be disturbed while browsing your auctions go to another city or go roll a pve server.

    Sadly there are people who don't really have an interest for challenging/fair fights and are just there to bore opponents. I remember that many-shamans guy on Icecrown who would oneshot whole alliance team just as it entered Wintergrasp battle; he was there just to annoy people with his toxic playstyle, and the server shouldn't have allowed that.
    "Fairplay" means nothing on a PVP server, I would say if 2 people in a party kill you 2v1 that wouldn't be fairplay either... There is absolutely no difference from being jumped by a premade and being jumped by a multiboxer. Premades are stronger even, especially with the latest nerf to multiboxing.
    Edited: October 31, 2020

  12. "Fairplay" means nothing on a PVP server, I would say if 2 people in a party kill you 2v1 that wouldn't be fairplay either... There is absolutely no difference from being jumped by a premade and being jumped by a multiboxer. Premades are stronger even, especially with the latest nerf to multiboxing.
    ...Except that premades are 40 different players, multiboxer just 1....

    /facepalm

  13. "Fairplay" means nothing on a PVP server, I would say if 2 people in a party kill you 2v1 that wouldn't be fairplay either... There is absolutely no difference from being jumped by a premade and being jumped by a multiboxer. Premades are stronger even, especially with the latest nerf to multiboxing.
    This and the others lines of thought can be readily invalidated with one simple question: have you ever seen a non multiboxing team of shamans and druids oneshotting each target at a time, casting the same (instant) spell at the same player at the same exact time?

    The answer is evidently no, and this fact disagrees with both multiboxing being so far from botting programs - since it allows to do things impossible to achieve normally - and it being comparable with normal PvP mechanics.

  14. This and the others lines of thought can be readily invalidated with one simple question: have you ever seen a non multiboxing team of shamans and druids oneshotting each target at a time, casting the same (instant) spell at the same player at the same exact time?

    The answer is evidently no, and this fact disagrees with both multiboxing being so far from botting programs - since it allows to do things impossible to achieve normally - and it being comparable with normal PvP mechanics.
    Premades oneshot targets too. You're telling me normal ppl can't achieve what a boxer does??? Give your premade casting sequences and you'll achieve the very same thing, every toon has a gcd you know... Not sure what that nonsense is you speak of...The fact 15x lightning bolts get casted at once means nothing, it is essentially crippling him more because he can't do specific reactions on certain characters. A multiboxer is always stacked, he can't trinket on specific chars, he can't use cd's properly on specific chars and he gets crippled in mobility easily. Oh by the way those 15 lightning bolts landing at the exact same time aren't unhealable btw (if you have some resilience atleast.)

    Multiboxer gameplay is very "scripted" and it lacks the counterplay every normal player can do in a premade.

    It has been proven time and time again when pvp guilds wiped boxers with equal or even lower numbers than the boxer.

    Few weeks ago i witnessed 2x 25 boxers getting wiped by a single 25 man premade.
    Edited: October 31, 2020

  15. Botting and multiboxing is far from the same, multiboxing requires manual input where botting relies on automation. Please do us all a favor and read up on things before you post useless, non constructive bs on the forum. Your blind hatred isn't doing anyone good.
    That's a really weak argument and using it is just a disservice. Multiboxing is still automation - you are blatantly automating the replication of a single input over 5/10/25 clients, you aren't manually doing it on each character yourself individually. The difference from "classic" botting is how much automation there is, but just the same there are various degrees of "classic" botting, from automatically reacting to something to following complex pathing to harvest nodes. So yes, multiboxing is still low-grade botting, it's simply an exception that is allowed on retail due to the compounding monthly fees and nothing else. Trying to pretend otherwise is just disingenuous.

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