1. May 18, 2019  
    He is becoming more aggressive with every reply, you just cannot reason with some, which seems to be the case with the balance changes we were mentioning as well. All i can hope is that our ideas are at least considered in some way :S
    "you just cannot reason with some" that would sum you up 100%!
    its funny your asking for balance changes 10+years later on wrath...but but i thought wraths pvp was great?
    your sitting here saying no one plays 3v3..and?maybe you should find a way to get people to play 3v3. yet your complain about a scrapped 2v2 bracket,why?it was scrapped because it was broken IN WRATH!if blizz could not fix 2v2 because of dks and pallys warmane much smaller staff cant fix it either.

    i never told you not to ask for changes but rather told you asking for 2v2 changes is the LAST thing you should do. human racial easy change they could give humans back there racial from TBC, but trying to fix/balancing 2v2 in a scrapped bracket = pointless. 3v3 in wrath was the ONLY bracket blizz tried to balance and your playing blizz's game, see my point? 2v2 was broken during S5 day one when the first pvp season started during wrath and arms and the warrior class was the worse spec/class in game in both pvp and pve. that should tell you the issue with 2v2 goes way way deeper then 3.3.5 arms.
    Edited: May 18, 2019

  2. May 18, 2019  
    yes i understand what your saying this is patch 3.3.5 correct? so what lead to patch 3.3.5?there was another 3/4ths of wrath that lead to 3.3.5, i think s5 alone lasted for almost 6 months and thats along time considering wrath lasted for what 2 years? what people are complaining about in 3.3.5 is becasue things happened pre 3.3.5 , see my point? like if you got into a fist fight that fight is the end result something lead to that fight.

    that leads me to 2v2 you do understand 2v2 does not count right?i said a million times blizz scrapped 2v2 and told everyone to play 3v3 so thats why 3v3 had high #'s of players and specs in it, it was the ONLY choice. so unless there are special rules for 2v2 on icecrown then no one should be talking about them. its crazy really everyone knows wraths pvp was a joke for the most part other then 3v3 towards the end of the x-pac yet no one plays 3v3 here,why? that is why most are here complaining... its like a never ending circle they are complaining about a broken bracket that was scrapped by blizz 10 years ago and was never fixed.

    the human racial is another good example that racial came at the start of wrath not 3.3.5 but yet its still the same. army of the dead cant be used in arena right? it was allowed in s5 s6 when dks broke pvp/arena = that lead to 3.3.5, cause and effect.
    dks still the best tanks in game on icecrown?pallys still better tanks then warriors?im will say yes even pve dps hows arms vs dk vs ret?both blew arms away all of wrath in pve dps. this is why arms needed massive buffs they had no place in game in either pvp or pve and if warmane hard nerfed arms for the sake of a scrapped 2v2 bracket where would that leave arms again = replaced by pallys and dks in every aspect. it funny the ONLY bracket people complain about warriors is 2v2 as thats the role blizz gave them MS bots when paired with pallys and dks. no one here is talking about 1v1 arms needs nerfs or arms does to much damage in icc correct? in 3v3 or 5v5 open world?i have not seen many people say arms in 5's is op'ed nerf them...they just keep talking about 2v2, why? if people are hardcore wrath players why are they playing 2v2? round and round.
    Again and again you keep rolling ur stupid line of "UHH DKS WERE OP AT THE START" which still is meaningless, the question here clearly was "on WARMANE" and warmane never had a pre 3.3.5a (to my knowledge) based wotlk server (talent wise) so what you are on and on about is totally meaningless.

    Stop wasting everyones time and every thread crying about DKs. They may have been the best overall wrath class but every single question about what is best since 2011 has been about season 8 since the only way you can play wrath is on private servers and i think almost all of them run 3.3.5a.


    And /thread, the question was what class, not what race. And yes human > all but its fairly irrelevant. Due to how the game works one side will always dominate the other in pvp since people go to where the players are.


    Now to answer the question, paladins are the best class, they are insane in bgs (holy/ret) in 2s (holy, war/Pal being the best comp), 3s (holy), they are viable in open world pvp, they do well in pve and all have a fairly low skillfloor. What is the best spec i would answer differently, id say shadow priest since they are also good everywhere and vs pretty much everything. They are good in bgs, good in duels, good in arenas and are all around very flexible without having to juggle gear so much (a ret is **** in duels vs a lot unless he gears specifically for that). While they arent as asmazing at specific things like some paladin specs (or arms wars in 2s, or DKs in duels) they do everything well.

  3. May 19, 2019  
    Again and again you keep rolling ur stupid line of "UHH DKS WERE OP AT THE START" which still is meaningless, the question here clearly was "on WARMANE" and warmane never had a pre 3.3.5a (to my knowledge) based wotlk server (talent wise) so what you are on and on about is totally meaningless.

    Stop wasting everyones time and every thread crying about DKs. They may have been the best overall wrath class but every single question about what is best since 2011 has been about season 8 since the only way you can play wrath is on private servers and i think almost all of them run 3.3.5a.


    And /thread, the question was what class, not what race. And yes human > all but its fairly irrelevant. Due to how the game works one side will always dominate the other in pvp since people go to where the players are.


    Now to answer the question, paladins are the best class, they are insane in bgs (holy/ret) in 2s (holy, war/Pal being the best comp), 3s (holy), they are viable in open world pvp, they do well in pve and all have a fairly low skillfloor. What is the best spec i would answer differently, id say shadow priest since they are also good everywhere and vs pretty much everything. They are good in bgs, good in duels, good in arenas and are all around very flexible without having to juggle gear so much (a ret is **** in duels vs a lot unless he gears specifically for that). While they arent as asmazing at specific things like some paladin specs (or arms wars in 2s, or DKs in duels) they do everything well.
    my stupid line of "dks UHH DKS WERE OP AT THE START"...hmm? nope dk's are op'ed even in 3.3.5 and i do not give a crap if dks took a back set to arms in 2v2 ONLY in 3.3.5 either, dks are still miles better in every way. hey lets nerf arms because of 2v2.... so that way arms get replaced and another dps spec that you play either dk or pally takes its spot so then you can be the best at everything, sounds good right?
    you just said pallys are the best overall class in game correct?maybe nerf them?nerfing them would also hurt arms in 2's big time.

    sad thing is i watch most of you talk about how great wrath was... then in another thread your crying about this is broken or thats broken and want changes made. well like i said if wrath was as good as you guys claim things would never been broken to start with even more so at end game... and at the very least they would have been fixed. you can look at 2v2 as the perfect example for that yet your here even after you agreed with me playing games,lol.

    "And /thread, the question was what class, not what race"
    yes again ty for agreeing with me... i said this many times in this thread the question was about whats the BEST CLASS in pvp right?yet SOME people are naming arms....and talking about the human racial,why?do you really think warriors are the best pvp CLASS in game?you just name pallys and dks as that...warriors ONLY have arms thats good in pvp classes like pallys and dks have atleast 2+, not hard to see who the better class is.

    "Now to answer the question paladins are the best class" "DKs, They may have been the best overall wrath class"
    good answer....

    "Stop wasting everyones time and every thread crying about DKs""all of them run 3.3.5a."
    dks and pallys are examples of way better and more op'ed classes more so then arms but i have yet to see anyone one of you ask for changes to them....
    patch 3.3.5 your are correct that is what icecrown is/runs on but i can not help if you lack the brain power to understand that there was another 75% of wrath before 3.3.5 and that 3.3.5 is 95% the same. all they did was add end game raiding and make small class changes...
    when was the human racial added?please do not say 3.3.5 yet people are here asking for it to be changed,why?
    you do know that the big arms make over was not in patch 3.3.5 right?it was done like in season 6 or after and people are asking for changes,why?same reason i said other patches lead to 3.3.5 and its funny you and everyone else are asking for changes that came long before some almost 2 years before 3.3.5
    yet your telling me to stop talking about pre 3.3.5, sad and i think its funny. warriors did not brake 2's that was dks and pallys during season 5 so anyone with a brain would say yeah i see what you mean. warriors were bad and 2v2 got scrapped by blizz so now in patch 3.3.5 arms is great in 2v2 yet 2v2 sucks. so if warriors were deleted 2v2 would still suck...but people like you will say no thats not true... round and round.

    warmane just had 3V3 tournament not to long ago right? wonder why they would pick 3v3....
    asking for changes to 2v2 is no different then asking for changes for 1v1 = they do not matter/count.
    can you buy 2nd tier weapons or shoulders from 2v2 on icecrown?or do you have to 3v3 for them?hmmmm. stop taking about pre 3.3.5... only we can...
    Edited: May 19, 2019

  4. May 20, 2019  
    yea...and in 3v3 in Icecrown 48 of the 50 teams are alli. If you want me to go ahead and do the math on human ratio there like i did in the 2v2, I can, but I shouldn't need to. FFS. Do you even listen to yourselves when you argue this issue?????

  5. May 20, 2019  
    when was the human racial added?please do not say 3.3.5 yet people are here asking for it to be changed,why?
    As I have pointed out NUMEROUS times, it has NOTHING to do with original 3.3.5 Wrath. It was never broken in retail Wrath. The problem is, the racial WASN'T broken in original Wrath because almost NO ONE was capable of acquiring the two best PVE trinkets in 3.3.5 Wrath. But due to donating they CAN and DO acquire these items in Warmane. And THAT is precisely where the problem lies. Something that NEVER happened in retail Wrath happens EVERY ****ING DAY in Warmane. So, rocket scientist, tell me me how we fix this unforeseen consequence. I'm waiting.

  6. May 20, 2019  
    yea...and in 3v3 in Icecrown 48 of the 50 teams are alli. If you want me to go ahead and do the math on human ratio there like i did in the 2v2, I can, but I shouldn't need to. FFS. Do you even listen to yourselves when you argue this issue?????
    do the math do anything you like but do not tell me to stop talking about pre 3.3.5 when your doing the same dam thing.

  7. May 20, 2019  
    As I have pointed out NUMEROUS times, it has NOTHING to do with original 3.3.5 Wrath. It was never broken in retail Wrath. The problem is, the racial WASN'T broken in original Wrath because almost NO ONE was capable of acquiring the two best PVE trinkets in 3.3.5 Wrath. But due to donating they CAN and DO acquire these items in Warmane. And THAT is precisely where the problem lies. Something that NEVER happened in retail Wrath happens EVERY ****ING DAY in Warmane. So, rocket scientist, tell me me how we fix this unforeseen consequence. I'm waiting.

    what are you talking about?original 3.3.5 Wrath?yeah you are playing original 3.3.5 Wrath!
    your saying the human racial was not op'ed during wrath on live?LOL!it the same dam racial that was added in the pre wrath patch before wrath went live....its op'ed now and it was op'ed all of wrath. so stop with the icecrown is different crap because its not you just want changes to the game you want/like.

    "the racial WASN'T broken in original Wrath because almost NO ONE was capable of acquiring the two best PVE trinkets in 3.3.5 Wrath"
    LOL! everyone had them trinkets on live! ICC was on farm for most guilds/players even more so after blizz nerfed it and wrath is known as the x-pac for welfare epics.go watch videos on youtube of wraths pvp and you see every melee dps truing into a dam walrus lol. and im pretty sure blizz got more people into ICC then any raid from classic or TBC.... and let snot even talk about other raids in wrath... not what people call difficult.
    besides if your problem is trinkets or human racial ask for them to be changed and tell others to do the same but the last thing you should do is ask for changes to arms because of 2v2... lol.

    "So, rocket scientist, tell me me how we fix this unforeseen consequence. I'm waiting"
    how about you find a server that does not have a cash shop?would that fix your issue?its a private server most of the player bases ends up with bis or close to bis gear do not like it?do not play.
    how about asking warmane to not allow pve gear in pvp? how about playing 3v3 instead of 2v2 like blizz told everyone and i have told you countless times!some how you do not seem to understand, 2v2 in wrath is not balanced its a scrapped bracket 3v3 that no one plays on icecrown... is where wraths pvp balance is supposed to be = play that. do you understand that?if your playing wrath because you love pvp and even more so 2v2 = you picked the wrong x-pac. the op'ed pve gear effects all classes/specs in every part of the game not just warriors in 2v2....nerf pallys and all the gear they use for healing you called them the best class of wrath did you not?i bet it effects arms in 2v2.... but but we want arms nerfs....lol right.

    the funny thing is i said this to you and others a million times over and you keep on asking the same questions, crazy right. wraths pvp was a joke class balance was a joke!and it where blizz gave out welfair epics like candy. everyone had had shadowegde and shadowmoure even more so hardcore raiders and top end pvpers so stop saying other wise.
    i said countless times wraths pvp was not good other then 3v3 and you guys play 2v2,why?you do not want balance you want gear and i have yet to see you or anyone tell me if you can get tier 2 weapons and shoulders from 2v2? pve gear the human racial op'ed classes are just a few example of why wraths pvp was not good and yet your here crying about it,shocking.
    if you do not like wraths pvp then go play an x-pac with better pvp TBC 2v2 is not perfect but its a millions times better then wraths pvp/ 2v2. i todl you wrath was all about that op'ed pve gear and you told me o tbc had op'ed pve gear to....remember that?sure tbc had some good pve gear but nothing like wrath!and warglives are for rogues "pvp wise" where shadowmoure is for 3 classes lol.

    for the record all i did was try to explain to people like you that patch 3.3.5 is 95% if not more the same then other patches during wrath. people like you have asked for changes to things like 2v2 and the human racial correct? but your not smart enough to understand things like that came long before patch 3.3.5, so you/them are talking about pre 3.3.5 lol. you know like patch 3.3.0 was the ICC patch.....weird right?
    Edited: May 20, 2019

  8. May 20, 2019  
    For the record, I've never said ANYTHING about "pre 3.3.5". But nice wall of text. I only read the last line.

  9. May 20, 2019  
    For the record, I've never said ANYTHING about "pre 3.3.5". But nice wall of text. I only read the last line.
    Take my advice, ignore him.

  10. May 21, 2019  
    For the record, I've never said ANYTHING about "pre 3.3.5". But nice wall of text. I only read the last line.
    everything you said was from pre 3.3.5
    "the racial WASN'T broken in original Wrath because almost NO ONE was capable of acquiring the two best PVE trinkets in 3.3.5 Wrath"
    LOL!

  11. May 21, 2019  
    Original Wrath, meaning RETAIL, FFS. It has nothing to do with with version. And I never said a single word about versions. I was comparing retail to what we have now (which - news flash - isn't retail). Nice try attempting to put words in my mouth, but no. And while we're at it "LOL! everyone had them trinkets on live!" Hyperbole much? EVERYONE had them?? REALLY?? Yea, I saw lvl 60s walking round ORG with both ****ing heroic ICC trinkets. *****. NO. The only ppl that had them (both heroic) were PVE 1%ers who killed HEROIC LK weekly. Even then, it took weeks and weeks to get both (DKP much?) A few ppl had them for a few weeks before cata dropped and they became irrelevant. And most of those PVE gods never set foot in a bg. Most ppl focus on one or the other. So no. Again. You did NOT see bgs in RETAIL where 80% of the allies were humans and every ****ing one had DOUBLE HEROIC ICC trinkets. Didn't happen. I was there. You're running on desperation and hyperbole, and one has to wonder why you have SO much invested in this? You're talking to yourself 95% of the time. Stats matter nothing to you. You just want to argue.

  12. May 22, 2019  
    Original Wrath, meaning RETAIL, FFS. It has nothing to do with with version. And I never said a single word about versions. I was comparing retail to what we have now (which - news flash - isn't retail). Nice try attempting to put words in my mouth, but no. And while we're at it "LOL! everyone had them trinkets on live!" Hyperbole much? EVERYONE had them?? REALLY?? Yea, I saw lvl 60s walking round ORG with both ****ing heroic ICC trinkets. *****. NO. The only ppl that had them (both heroic) were PVE 1%ers who killed HEROIC LK weekly. Even then, it took weeks and weeks to get both (DKP much?) A few ppl had them for a few weeks before cata dropped and they became irrelevant. And most of those PVE gods never set foot in a bg. Most ppl focus on one or the other. So no. Again. You did NOT see bgs in RETAIL where 80% of the allies were humans and every ****ing one had DOUBLE HEROIC ICC trinkets. Didn't happen. I was there. You're running on desperation and hyperbole, and one has to wonder why you have SO much invested in this? You're talking to yourself 95% of the time. Stats matter nothing to you. You just want to argue.
    im not reading all that.... like i said your wrong telling me not many had bis trinkets on live wrath.....yup not many had shadowmoure either lol.

    heres the thing its where you fail so try to understand ok? 2v2 was broken during s5 thats the very start of wrath, blizz scrapped the bracket soon after telling everyone to play 3v3 as they were not going to try and balance 2's anymore.this had nothing to do with ICC gear or arms warriors!can you understand that?so all your comments about gear from the shop hurting pvp does not hold up as it was broken/scrapped long before. all that gear did was make things worse adding to the reason why blizz said play 3v3 during wrath.

    now is that easy for you to understand?2v2 was broken long before arms make over and op'ed ICC gear got added!thats as simple as i can came it for you.and please remember everything you say or talk about during wrath counts as its all the same x-pac. like i said ICC was patch 3.3.0.... crazy right?changes made in 3.3.0 are still part of patch 3.3.5, get it now?

    here is a quote from blizz on patch 3.3.5 "Patch 3.3.5 is a minor content patch introducing the Ruby Sanctum raid and cross-game chat using Battle.net.
    The patch was launched on US servers on 22 June 2010 and on other servers on 30 June 2010"

    get it now?patch 3.3.5 is in name only as the last big patch of wrath was 3.3.0 and that had ICC and a ton of class changes and pvp changes. so playing on a 3.3.5 server is no different then live wrath as its all part of 3.3.5, 3.3.5 was just the last patch be that a minor one at that.

    i played live wrath i know how it went and i know hat was wrong with it and the sad thing is your here saying the same thing i said about how wrath was/is broken, the only difference is i know why wrath was broken unlike you.also i think you should stop down playing ICC raid as it was on farm for millions of people. a trinket is still op'ed if its heroic or non heroic to go along with the op'ed human racial that you said was not op'ed on live... #'s say other wise just like they do here on warmane.

    like i said find a new server without a cash shop it you do not like it and/or play 3v3 because thats where wraths pvp balance is supposed to be.funny how blizz could get 3v3 even at end game and make it pretty solid with all the op'ed pve gear... yet they could not balance 2v2.. that should also tell you gear was not the biggest issue.... it was classes "pally and dks".

    last thing lets say your right and no one had heroic trinkets "they did" the human racial still would be op'ed as that still ='s a free trinket for double dps trinkets. it does not matter what trinkets humans used they still got to use 2... when other classes had to use the pvp trinket to Removes all movement impairing effeccts.. humans got that for free...= two dps trinkets = op'ed.

  13. May 23, 2019  
    The hard fact of the matter is that people vote with their dollars. This server is a business like any other. The ONLY thing you're right about is that I chose to play on this server. I guess that was my mistake. Not the first. I'm certain not the last. And in all likelihood I am choosing to leave as well because they're not going to attempt to fix it. I actually thought they would CARE about their business, and want it to continue and prosper, and therefore take a few not-at-all drastic steps to balance the issue and to make it fun for more ppl to play both sides. But if not, OK. Fair enough. I'm a grown woman. Hey, I can go other places and play other stuff. No problem. You allies can enjoy sitting in Q forever, jerking yourselves off waiting for ANYONE to Q horde side so you can graveyard farm them for ten minutes until they all stop rezzing. Sounds SUPER FUN and challenging. I just thought I would try to suggest a solution. Hey, vanilla wow is coming out in a couple months and my son is keen on playing that. Probably take a long summer motorbike trip, work on the career a bit more, and delete this **** show altogether. That's MY solution. Cheers.

  14. May 26, 2019  
    Can someone actually give me real information regarding human racial and not only "its op"?
    I have tried to calculate it between human and orc when you play warrior.
    With orc warrior you have 150 resil from insignia that you can gem into strenght, because human has to gem resil.
    150 str = 300 attack power
    Now this is orc racial - 322 attack power gain * 15 second up-time / 120 second cooldown = 40.25 average attack power gain.
    So basically you have 340 attack power as orc, if you count only trinkets
    Now human with Whispering Fanged Skull - 1250 attack power gain * 15 second up-time / 45 second cooldown = 416 attack power and 3% crit
    Does not seem so broken to me, please correct any mistakes or factors that i did not include into consideration.

  15. May 26, 2019  
    Can someone actually give me real information regarding human racial and not only "its op"?
    I have tried to calculate it between human and orc when you play warrior.
    With orc warrior you have 150 resil from insignia that you can gem into strenght, because human has to gem resil.
    150 str = 300 attack power
    Now this is orc racial - 322 attack power gain * 15 second up-time / 120 second cooldown = 40.25 average attack power gain.
    So basically you have 340 attack power as orc, if you count only trinkets
    Now human with Whispering Fanged Skull - 1250 attack power gain * 15 second up-time / 45 second cooldown = 416 attack power and 3% crit
    Does not seem so broken to me, please correct any mistakes or factors that i did not include into consideration.
    It's a matter of preference if you take http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50343 or http://wotlk.cavernoftime.com/item=50363 as second PvE trinket as warrior.
    The passive stats of the PvP trinket compared to the mentioned PvE trinkets are more or less equally good.
    In the end you get that extra trinket proc as human which is around 11 times better than blood fury of orc.

    It's also worth to mention that a trinket proc can not be directly translated into a average value.
    1250 AP for 15 sec is not equally strong to 416 passive AP. Burst is all that matters in PvP so that huge extra dmg for a 15 sec duration is significant stronger than 416 passive AP.
    Edited: May 26, 2019

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