1. well, i dont see anything challenging about black temple... reavers not working, every boss tauntable which makes it easy to skip mechanics that are too difficult to fix
    some hp tuning would have been sufficient with working boss mechanics

  2. every boss tauntable which makes it easy to skip mechanics
    Agreed. Bloodboil is tauntable rofl.

  3. Sunwells tuned perfectly atm. best tuned raid of tbc so far. /thread.

  4. Sunwell is tuned just where it needs to be. If you’re having trouble you may need to separate the wheat from the chaff if you will in regards to your raiders. Sunwell isn’t supposed to be easy, but guilds are downing it. Adapt or die.

  5. Agreed. Bloodboil is tauntable rofl.
    It's been bug reported many, many times. They all get dismissed because *apparently* there was some early version on retail where he was tauntable. I've never heard of that though.

    And also, it's very clear that Sunwell is tuned correctly. There are new guilds killing these bosses every raid day, without class stacking. I promise you they are all enjoying those kills more than the poorly tuned loot pinatas in Hyjal.

  6. People complaining about Bloodboil being tauntable do not realise he would have been literally impossible to do considering his buffed hp and enrage timer if he was taunt immune, considering the threat reduction mechanic the raid dps would have been significantly lower to not pull aggro, and people wiped to triggering the enrage quite often on him back when BT was released on this server WITHOUT him being taunt immune.

  7. And also, it's very clear that Sunwell is tuned correctly. There are new guilds killing these bosses every raid day, without class stacking. I promise you they are all enjoying those kills more than the poorly tuned loot pinatas in Hyjal.
    I'm seeing guilds already park paladins (mains, alts or otherwise) outside for extra buffs and not taking them along. This is the beginning of class stacking; by getting rid of those classes who's buffs outscale their usability inside of raids. Otherwise they'd take 4 paladins if they wanted everything, 3 if they wanted all of the key buffs. But no, they really only take 2.

    Perhaps Warmane should wipe all buffs upon entry to sunwell and see how well these guilds do?

    I mean, after all, this raid was the cited main reason that blizzard coined the phrase "Bring the player, not the class" for the raid design going into WotLK along with buff consolidation and duplication changes.

  8. I'm seeing guilds already park paladins (mains, alts or otherwise) outside for extra buffs and not taking them along. This is the beginning of class stacking; by getting rid of those classes who's buffs outscale their usability inside of raids. Otherwise they'd take 4 paladins if they wanted everything, 3 if they wanted all of the key buffs. But no, they really only take 2.

    Perhaps Warmane should wipe all buffs upon entry to sunwell and see how well these guilds do?

    I mean, after all, this raid was the cited main reason that blizzard coined the phrase "Bring the player, not the class" for the raid design going into WotLK along with buff consolidation and duplication changes.
    Paladin alts buffing outside raids isn't even close to "class stacking." That's something top guilds have always done. Even 10 years ago this happened, because why wouldn't you buff extra pally buffs if you can? It's blizzlike.

  9. I'm seeing guilds already park paladins (mains, alts or otherwise) outside for extra buffs and not taking them along. This is the beginning of class stacking; by getting rid of those classes who's buffs outscale their usability inside of raids. Otherwise they'd take 4 paladins if they wanted everything, 3 if they wanted all of the key buffs. But no, they really only take 2.

    Perhaps Warmane should wipe all buffs upon entry to sunwell and see how well these guilds do?

    I mean, after all, this raid was the cited main reason that blizzard coined the phrase "Bring the player, not the class" for the raid design going into WotLK along with buff consolidation and duplication changes.
    Yet another rookie player needs to tell his 5 cents. This outside buffing is so basic raid procedure that even mentioning it makes you look like a donkey. In early stage of retail BT progression all top guilds outside soulstoning each other with another 20 warlocks alts, how about that? I assume you would ban them all

  10. People complaining about Bloodboil being tauntable do not realise he would have been literally impossible to do considering his buffed hp and enrage timer if he was taunt immune, considering the threat reduction mechanic the raid dps would have been significantly lower to not pull aggro, and people wiped to triggering the enrage quite often on him back when BT was released on this server WITHOUT him being taunt immune.
    just wrong.... if you have 3 tanks that can pull a significant amount of threat even warriors with glaives can't pull aggro, as the most threat is produced during the fel rage phase (heroism, pots, cds stacking) where you literally cannot pull aggro due to the buff
    the taunt tactic just (paladin taunting and running out of range) relieves healers

  11. Paladin alts buffing outside raids isn't even close to "class stacking." That's something top guilds have always done. Even 10 years ago this happened, because why wouldn't you buff extra pally buffs if you can? It's blizzlike.

    you're right, it's not class stacking. it's negative stacking to allocate those slots to other players. The argument isn't about if it is or isn't blizzlike, it's about the raid being tuned 'appropriately' for guilds that are using these mechanics. If Guilds are able to complete these encounters without these buffs, then you would be correct in stating that the encounters are tuned appropriately. Since I haven't seen that out of any guild that has streamed this content so far; the answer is no.

    (e.g. each of the videos linked in this thread had 3+ paladin buffs, but only 2 paladins participate in the kill. This is negative class stacking and you know it.)

    Yet another rookie player needs to tell his 5 cents...
    If you want be taken more seriously, start by not attacking other people in your opening statement. otherwise you're just spewing garbage because you think you can. It doesn't make you a superior person and instead just makes you a neanderthal with a keyboard.

    P.S. For soulstones? yes, having those wiped on entry to the raid would be acceptable as well. It's always all or nothing, right? But since reading comprehension is not your strong suit you immediately went to 'banning' instead of having the buff wiped on entry just goes to show how much thought you put into this.

    Sorry if you're somehow caused pain by the premise of someone questioning the tuning of encounters on the end raid of the expansion that basically had every guild ***** from here to the ends of the earth on the requirements that were posed to their playbase that caused Blizzard to completely change their raid model in their next expansion when it was released.

    If you had played during that time frame, you would know this, rookie.
    Edited: September 8, 2018

  12. does this look overtuned to you? looks perfect to me.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU9XXcKwdJM

    what's wrong with going outside for extra paladin buffs / imp ds?

    at least we aren't abusing maiden of pain or silithus buff.

    guilds were completely able to buff outside the instance in retail.

    so whats your deal?

    if brutallus is too hard for you to kill, you need more gear or a better raid comp. it doesn't mean the boss is overtuned. look at how many guilds have killed it by now.

  13. does this look overtuned to you? looks perfect to me.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU9XXcKwdJM

    what's wrong with going outside for extra paladin buffs / imp ds?

    at least we aren't abusing maiden of pain or silithus buff.

    guilds were completely able to buff outside the instance in retail.

    so whats your deal?

    if brutallus is too hard for you to kill, you need more gear or a better raid comp. it doesn't mean the boss is overtuned. look at how many guilds have killed it by now.
    Congrats on your kill, however in your video you posted, you have 4 paladin buffs, but only 2 are in the raid with you for the kill.

    Take off 2 paladin buffs from every player in your raid and try the encounter again, or take 2 more paladins and replace out some of your DPS or even a healer or two.

    Do you think you would get that kill? Maybe? It looks like it's in range, but since you hit the enrage timer even without those 2 slots being switched out, I have to go with a no, you probably couldn't do it.

    edit: you also are taking a discipline priests buff and not taking them? that's 3 raid slots you've negative class stacked against.

    Again, the argument isn't against the act itself. But the fact that you now have benched 3 potential players because the buffs they bring which are quite powerful and affect the entire composition of the raid, don't outweigh the DPS/ HPS another class can do if they have that spot instead, to meet warmane's expectations of a harder challenge then retail.

    I will not resign myself to be an AFK buff bot that sits outside the damn instance the entire time while everyone else gets to experience the content just to make the fights more 'challenging' for this playerbase.
    Edited: September 8, 2018

  14. Congrats on your kill, however in your video you posted, you have 4 paladin buffs, but only 2 are in the raid with you for the kill.

    Take off 2 paladin buffs from every player in your raid and try the encounter again, or take 2 more paladins and replace out some of your DPS or even a healer or two.

    Do you think you would get that kill? Maybe? It looks like it's in range, but since you hit the enrage timer even without those 2 slots being switched out, I have to go with a no, you probably couldn't do it.

    edit: you also are taking a discipline priests buff and not taking them? that's 3 raid slots you've negative class stacked against.

    Again, the argument isn't against the act itself. But the fact that you now have benched 3 potential players because the buffs they bring which are quite powerful and affect the entire composition of the raid, don't outweigh the DPS/ HPS another class can do if they have that spot instead, to meet warmane's expectations of a harder challenge then retail.

    I will not resign myself to be an AFK buff bot that sits outside the damn instance the entire time while everyone else gets to experience the content just to make the fights more 'challenging' for this playerbase.
    You're mad 3 players got benched? Here's some news for you - most guilds killing this boss are benching at least 10 players. Are you mad about that? Those people will get in on the kill next week or the week after.

    Here's some more news for you - nobody gives a **** about outside classes buffing, it's blizzlike. At least two of those pally buffs came from alts of people playing their mains IN the fight. Mad about that? Tough, that's what happens on a server with increased rates. People have tons of 70 alts.

    Lets not even mention that's a guild beating the enrage with no class stacking, without a single glaive, and they don't even use the cash shop.

    This thread has been completely discredited. It sounds like you're a mad 2nd string holy paladin who doesn't want to sit on the bench for a guild first kill. Sorry, that's just how TBC is. Buff your guild like a good boy, and watch the attempts on stream so you know what to do when it's you're turn.
    Edited: September 9, 2018

  15. You're mad 3 players got benched? Here's some news for you - most guilds killing this boss are benching at least 10 players. Are you mad about that? Those people will get in on the kill next week or the week after.

    Here's some more news for you - nobody gives a **** about outside classes buffing, it's blizzlike. At least two of those pally buffs came from alts of people playing their mains IN the fight. Mad about that? Tough, that's what happens on a server with increased rates. People have tons of 70 alts.

    Lets not even mention that's a guild beating the enrage with no class stacking, without a single glaive, and they don't even use the cash shop.

    This thread has been completely discredited. It sounds like you're a mad 2nd string holy paladin who doesn't want to sit on the bench for a guild first kill. Sorry, that's just how TBC is. Buff your guild like a good boy, and watch the attempts on stream so you know what to do when it's you're turn.

    Exactly. Not a single glaive, not a single cash shop item.

    There's no reason to argue this further. Buffing outside is blizzlike and if you think otherwise you're wrong.

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