1. I would like to ask, does Warlocks actually have benefit from [Archus, Greatstaff of Antonidas] ? Which spec and why?
    And since it's BiS for Rdruids.Hpriests, are warlocks allowed to take that?


    P.S, idk much about warlocks so don't take this question too seriously.

  2. Violinist's Avatar
    Violinist
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    Demo lock DPS pre-haste nerf :(
    Yes... but even after the nerf i can still do that much
    ---------------------------------
    I would like to ask, does Warlocks actually have benefit from [Archus, Greatstaff of Antonidas] ? Which spec and why?
    And since it's BiS for Rdruids.Hpriests, are warlocks allowed to take that?


    P.S, idk much about warlocks so don't take this question too seriously.
    Actually that isnt a bad question. Now im assuming that u would be stacking spirit if u where to want to use this. From what rawr says actually it gives more spell power than the one hand + oh because of GoLT and of all the spirit u have for the spirit stacking build. Therefore u would give a bigger buff. So u are right, if u play the role of the "Spirit Stacking" demo lock than go with Archus. Thanks for pointing that out :D

  3. Just a question, what is the real feasibility in the Demonic Empowerment spell when pets do have their bugs and all whereas one point in Improved Demonic Tactics contributes better to keeping 100% uptime for Demonic Pact for the raid?

  4. Violinist's Avatar
    Violinist
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    Just a question, what is the real feasibility in the Demonic Empowerment spell when pets do have their bugs and all whereas one point in Improved Demonic Tactics contributes better to keeping 100% uptime for Demonic Pact for the raid?
    Regardless of the pet bugs, Demonic Empowerment will have more of a dps increase than a point in imp. demonic tactics. For as long as i have played lock, i have never had a problem with Demonic Pact falling off, so putting more points in demonic tactics would just be pointless when Demonic Empowerment does more dps.

  5. decimatus's Avatar
    decimatus
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    Hey! Very nice guide! this is the exact build I am following. I am still new to Warcraft and am learning the game bit by bit. I must say, this is a very good build for raiding. Soul Fire crits are so awesome! :D

  6. I would like to ask, does Warlocks actually have benefit from [Archus, Greatstaff of Antonidas] ? Which spec and why?
    And since it's BiS for Rdruids.Hpriests, are warlocks allowed to take that?


    P.S, idk much about warlocks so don't take this question too seriously.
    for affli, you are better off going with Bloodsurge, Kel'Thuzad's Blade of Agony + Shadow Silk Spindle or Sundial of Eternal Dusk

    difference of 34 SP & 68 crit
    apply stat to dps ratios : SP = 34*1.85 = 62.9, crit = 68*1.23 = 83.64
    So SSS should theoretically beat SED

    Theoretical BiS for Affliction = Bloodsurge, Kel'Thuzad's Blade of Agony (Heroic) + Shadow Silk Spindle (Heroic)

    for demo check the numbers below (assuming you have glyph of life-tap & that improved armor talent - if you don't have these, idk why play demo then)

    Archus, Greatstaff of Antonidas (Heroic) : SP = 893 + (0.39+0.2)*141 + 46 (2 extra socket) + (81-63) + 9 (Socket Bonus)= 1049, Haste = 141 (ignored any minor increases from other talents)

    A) Bloodsurge, Kel'Thuzad's Blade of Agony (Heroic) : SP = 893 + 5 = 898, Haste = 71, Crit = 55
    B) Rigormortis (Heroic) : SP = 836, Haste = 66, Hit = 50 (no socket bonus)
    C) Frozen Bonespike (Heroic) : SP = 836 + 0.59*66 = 875, Crit = 50 (no socket bonus)
    D) Shadow Silk Spindle (Heroic) : SP = 119, Haste = 68 Crit = 68
    E) Sundial of Eternal Dusk : SP = 119 + 0.59*68 = 159, Haste = 68

    A + D : SP = 1017, Haste = 139, Crit = 123 (Better than Archus)
    A + E : SP = 1057, Haste = 139, Crit = 55 (A+D or A+E - depends if you concentrate on demonic pact or not)
    B + D : SP = 955, Haste = , Crit = [not so good]
    B + E : SP = 995, Haste = 134, Crit = 0, Hit = 50[Better than archus, but only slightly]
    C + D : SP = 994, Haste = 68, Crit = 50[not so good]
    C + E : SP = 1034, Haste = 68 , Crit = 68 [not so good, since you are better off with haste as demo]

    Theoretical BiS for Demonology = Bloodsurge, Kel'Thuzad's Blade of Agony (Heroic) + Shadow Silk Spindle (Heroic)

    - So in short never go for a staff & never go for Frozen Bonespike (unless you are using absolutely useless stuff)
    - Also this conclusively proves that Bloodsurge, Kel'Thuzad's Blade of Agony (Heroic) is BiS for warlocks

    Edit : Made corrections for enchants & extra socket to archus

  7. Violinist's Avatar
    Violinist
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    for affli, you are better off going with Bloodsurge, Kel'Thuzad's
    This is a demo guild lol. It is best if you are a non-donor and stacking spirit.

    (someone needs to make an aff guide hint hint)
    ---------------------------------
    Actually that isnt a bad question. Now im assuming that u would be stacking spirit if u where to want to use this. From what rawr says actually it gives more spell power than the one hand + oh because of GoLT and of all the spirit u have for the spirit stacking build. Therefore u would give a bigger buff. So u are right, if u play the role of the "Spirit Stacking" demo lock than go with Archus. Thanks for pointing that out :D

  8. Nice guide overall, thanks for making it.

    Firstly, unless I'm missing it, perhaps adding a section about stat weights (or more specifically desired stats) would be handy for the less experienced folks.

    Then, with regards to the gear you listed, I assume you just went on obtainable gear? If not, CTS and Muradin's Spyglass should probably get a mention. As I remember it, CTS is BiS in all cases (Higher uptime due to lower ICD, more SP over a given timeframe), with the second being either Muradin's or DFO (Even Phylactery is still a very good trinket, if you don't have any of the others).

    Might be a good idea to add some RS / Gunship gear for someone looking for gear to donate for?

    Once again, thanks for a great guide

  9. The video i post and should be linked in all demo guides:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieGnHENE7JQ

    Not in the mood to give the same tips i gave already in every single demo thread, again.

  10. Violinist's Avatar
    Violinist
    Guest
    Nice guide overall, thanks for making it.

    Firstly, unless I'm missing it, perhaps adding a section about stat weights (or more specifically desired stats) would be handy for the less experienced folks.

    Then, with regards to the gear you listed, I assume you just went on obtainable gear? If not, CTS and Muradin's Spyglass should probably get a mention. As I remember it, CTS is BiS in all cases (Higher uptime due to lower ICD, more SP over a given timeframe), with the second being either Muradin's or DFO (Even Phylactery is still a very good trinket, if you don't have any of the others).

    Might be a good idea to add some RS / Gunship gear for someone looking for gear to donate for?

    Once again, thanks for a great guide
    I would just like to start this off by saying this,

    Here is a collection of bis gear that anyone (non-donor or donor) can obtain in game
    The gear i was talking about is only the gear that is obtainable in game, so adding CTS + Muradin's wouldn't be right. Even then CTS + Muradin's is not bis for demo locks. From what i am seeing Halion and gunship may be released soon. When that happends, the bis trinkets for demo (non-donor) will be CTS + reign of the dead. Also we would be switching the belt to the marrow 25 one and the neck to the gunship 25 one (this is in the personal dps set). The reason for CTS being bis is as u said more uptime = mor sp. Now based on the values that rawr is giving me, fully raid buffed, with all the nondonor bis gear, you will have 56% crit. making reign of the dead proc a lot which is a lot of dps (especially because as far as on molten, reign of the dead kinda seems to scale with spell power). Now although MSG gives you 180 spell power, you get 150 from RotD. So as far as RoTD vs MSG, RoTD is better. When those 2 encounters are enabled ill update the list.

    U brought up a good point, i will add a complete (aka all HC gear) bis list to the guide for those who are planning on donating.
    ---------------------------------
    The video i post and should be linked in all demo guides:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieGnHENE7JQ

    Not in the mood to give the same tips i gave already in every single demo thread, again.
    i will add the link to my guide. I already have all of the tips that you mentioned. (At least all of the ones i agree with).

    Off topic: Where r u now that crysis is gone?

  11. This is a demo guild lol. It is best if you are a non-donor and stacking spirit.

    (someone needs to make an aff guide hint hint)
    in all the non donor equips the stats are proportionately reduced, the answers remain the same even in case of non-heroic

    affli guide, will be very hard to make without the facility of tables available on these forums ... need to compare equips, stats, combinations, total stats ... will be really annoying without tables.
    ---------------------------------
    The video i post and should be linked in all demo guides:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieGnHENE7JQ

    Not in the mood to give the same tips i gave already in every single demo thread, again.
    in that vid he suggests glyph of felguard, don't use it on molten (apparently it lowers the pet's damage LOL)

  12. Violinist's Avatar
    Violinist
    Guest
    in all the non donor equips the stats are proportionately reduced, the answers remain the same even in case of non-heroic
    Yes but non-donors do not have access to certain gear making the bis list for a non donor differant. For example, a non-donor can simply not have CTS or MSG. I am doing all of my calculations with rawr. So according to rawr, with identical gear set up to maximize spellpower, the staff gives more spell power.

  13. Yes but non-donors do not have access to certain gear making the bis list for a non donor differant. For example, a non-donor can simply not have CTS or MSG. I am doing all of my calculations with rawr. So according to rawr, with identical gear set up to maximize spellpower, the staff gives more spell power.
    Archus (non-heroic) drops from LK25
    bloodsurge (non-heroic) drops from LK25
    rignor (NH) from PP25
    SSS (non-heroic) drops from BPC25
    SED (non-heroic) drops from Sindra 25
    Frozen bonespike (NH) from LM25

    all these bosses are there in-game, issue is whether you can clear the bosses & win the rolls/bids

    P.S. : I have stated BiS only from weps point of view, with other gear, you will have to consider hit too - for considering everything, will have to make a table - damn no table facility

  14. Violinist's Avatar
    Violinist
    Guest
    Archus (non-heroic) drops from LK25
    bloodsurge (non-heroic) drops from LK25
    rignor (NH) from PP25
    SSS (non-heroic) drops from BPC25
    SED (non-heroic) drops from Sindra 25
    Frozen bonespike (NH) from LM25

    all these bosses are there in-game, issue is whether you can clear the bosses & win the rolls/bids
    Yes i know that lol. The simple thing is that with the set of gear that i consider to be BiS for a spirit stacking lock is Archus. I did the calculations lol. As far as hit goes, all of the gear builds are capped. Also note that this is for DPS Centered Demo. This is for people who are just stacking spirit and spellpower so they can give a bigger buff. So all that i am concerned with is which combo of gear has the most spell power.

    Here are my calculations:
    Now the only stats that affect spell power for locks are spell power and spirit so here is how much each item gives of sp and spirit:
    For non donor

    Gear without the wep

    Head: Sanctified Dark Coven Hood - 160 sp
    Neck: Bone Sentinel's Amulet - 97 sp 60 spirit
    Shoulders: Sanctified Dark Coven Shoulderpads - 132 sp
    Back: Greatcloak of the Turned Champion - 97sp 60 spirit
    Chest: Sanctified Dark Coven Robe - 171 sp
    Bracers: The Lady's Brittle Bracers - 97 sp
    Gloves: Sanctified Dark Coven Gloves - 132 sp
    Belt: Belt of Omission - 122 sp
    Legs: Plaguebringer's Stained Pants - 171 sp
    Feet: Plague Scientist's Boots - 122 sp
    Ring1: Memory of Malygos - 97sp 60 spirit
    Ring2: Ashen Band of Endless Destruction - 101 sp
    Trinket1: Dislodged Foreign Object - no passive sp
    Trinket2: Reign of the Dead [H] (Also known as Reign of the Unliving [A]) - 150 sp
    Wand: Nightmare Ender - 60sp 34 spirit
    So total from gear is = 1709sp, 214 spirit
    We also get 515sp, 110 spirit from gems and enchants
    So total sp and spirit is 2224sp and 224 spirit

    Now with fel armor, we get 234 spell power + 39% of our spirit and with GoLT we get 20% of our spirit as spell power:
    2224 + 234 + (.39*224) + (.2*224) = 2590 total sp from gear

    Now if we use bloodsurge + sundial we get these stats:
    2224sp + 792 + 106 = 3122 sp and 224 spirit + 60 = 284 spirit
    So with the above formula we get:
    3122 + 234 + (.39*284) + (.2*284) = 3523 + 63sp wep enchant = 3586sp total

    Now if we use Archus we get:
    2224sp + 792 = 3016sp and 224 spirit + 130 spirit = 354 spirit
    So:
    3016 + 234 + (.39*354) + (.2*354) = 3458 total sp + 81sp wep enchant + 23sp + 23 sp (gems) + 7sp socket bonus = 3592sp

    So without buffs, Archus is in fact better than Bloodsurge + sundial

  15. checking it, damn the heroic & non-heroic got different slots
    ---------------------------------
    Now if we use bloodsurge + sundial we get these stats:
    2224sp + 792 + 106 = 3122 sp and 224 spirit + 60 = 284 spirit
    So with the above formula we get:
    3122 + 234 + (.39*284) + (.2*284) = 3523 + 63sp wep enchant = 3586sp total

    Now if we use Archus we get:
    2224sp + 792 = 3016sp and 224 spirit + 130 spirit = 354 spirit
    So:
    3016 + 234 + (.39*354) + (.2*354) = 3458 total sp + 81sp wep enchant + 23sp + 23 sp (gems) + 7sp socket bonus = 3592sp

    So without buffs, Archus is in fact better than Bloodsurge + sundial
    So in heroic gear (23 SP socket + 5 SP bonus + 63 SP enchant)
    BiS is BS+SED

    In non-heroic gear (46 SP Socket + 7 SP bonus + 81 SP enchant)
    BiS is Archus
    althought with BS + SED you get -6SP & + 63crit (1.37%) <- so there is a good chance this will still win

    consider this
    Archus gives u 6 more spell power and 0.6 extra spellpower to the whole raid (say 5 healers + 9 spell dps including you)
    Consider for all classes, i give them the highest dps/hps coefficient from SP ie. 2.5
    Lets see the incremental damage = 6.6*2.5 + 0.6*(5+9-1)*2.5 = 36 DPS (btw you can 4 dps for the 2 extra haste too)
    Lets see the damage increase from BS + SED = 63*1 = 63 DPS
    (i assumed a very low dps co-efficient for crit)

    [tbh i just realized how small these numbers are & that im just avoiding my books :P]

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