WotLK [Guide] Hitting things smartly:Arms PVE Revisited

[Rommanth]

While i agree with most points listed here( which is a first for ANY of these socalled guides) I do find your glhpy choice interesting,

personally MS+SS+REND - are the ones ill always take simply for the face that it means you can always have SS up and its not cosing you anything(cept a GCD and if arms is played correctly you have more GCD's spare than a Fury warrior or hunter AUTO ATTACK HOOO) so thats generally always a dps gain in any fight that has 2 or more targets, currently my warrior is only 5.1k gs but ive played a warrior for 12 years on retail, and atleast 2-3 years on molten, and any warrior should know how to play arms simply because the DOT buff they bring, Feral/rogues in your raid would love the utility you can bring at the drop of the hat just by knowing how to swap to Arms and you would still only loose, AT MOST 2k dps which in all honestly, IS NOT MUCH and even then given time and learning of the spec that 2k disparity can be taken down, to about 500dps(Been there, done it got the Tshirt and am wearing it) as it currently stands im beating out 5.5k GS fury warriors and higher sometimes as an "lowly bad dps arms warrior"


Now the specs, Incite spec, where do i start, you lose Wep mastery(given you are still gearing i laughed hard at this) 2% chance for your attacks to be dodged less., Lowers the exper cap EVEN FREAKING MORE, given you should never be infront of the target..and while you do use TC alot, and sometimes HS(not very usefull when you can get an slam into the mix) it adds a little bit of spice to the ARMS warrior with a differant spec, but not the preferance i would take.


now the otherspec, 54.17.0 basic and standardized spec for arms duringh execute stage, and a good build all round, although once again, that 25% dodge is lookin at you and sometimes laughing when you cant get EXPR capped and have to gem or enchant it, or even worse take a worse item just to cap it.

now..you never actually explained why you should play an arms warrior, and its differant for every one, heck my own reason is..my own, but the reason to play an arms warrior is a simple one..

Do YOU want to be that mother ****er who swings hard, hits hard and looks hard? Yes? Then Arms, Arms all the ****ing way.

[jendah]

While i agree with most points listed here( which is a first for ANY of these socalled guides) I do find your glhpy choice interesting,

personally MS+SS+REND - are the ones ill always take simply for the face that it means you can always have SS up and its not cosing you anything(cept a GCD and if arms is played correctly you have more GCD's spare than a Fury warrior or hunter AUTO ATTACK HOOO) so thats generally always a dps gain in any fight that has 2 or more targets, currently my warrior is only 5.1k gs but ive played a warrior for 12 years on retail, and atleast 2-3 years on molten, and any warrior should know how to play arms simply because the DOT buff they bring, Feral/rogues in your raid would love the utility you can bring at the drop of the hat just by knowing how to swap to Arms and you would still only loose, AT MOST 2k dps which in all honestly, IS NOT MUCH and even then given time and learning of the spec that 2k disparity can be taken down, to about 500dps(Been there, done it got the Tshirt and am wearing it) as it currently stands im beating out 5.5k GS fury warriors and higher sometimes as an "lowly bad dps arms warrior"


Now the specs, Incite spec, where do i start, you lose Wep mastery(given you are still gearing i laughed hard at this) 2% chance for your attacks to be dodged less., Lowers the exper cap EVEN FREAKING MORE, given you should never be infront of the target..and while you do use TC alot, and sometimes HS(not very usefull when you can get an slam into the mix) it adds a little bit of spice to the ARMS warrior with a differant spec, but not the preferance i would take.


now the otherspec, 54.17.0 basic and standardized spec for arms duringh execute stage, and a good build all round, although once again, that 25% dodge is lookin at you and sometimes laughing when you cant get EXPR capped and have to gem or enchant it, or even worse take a worse item just to cap it.

now..you never actually explained why you should play an arms warrior, and its differant for every one, heck my own reason is..my own, but the reason to play an arms warrior is a simple one..

Do YOU want to be that mother ****er who swings hard, hits hard and looks hard? Yes? Then Arms, Arms all the ****ing way.

Glyph of SS is good, but not useful on all fights (most of the icc ones). You should swap glyphs depending on fight imho.

I don't think you could get anywhere close to 2k dps difference @bis vs good fury. The reason I am sceptical is that all Fury wars I know who tryed arms ended doing like 6-9k less dps at the time. It might be because of the bugs, skill, etc... - I am just very sceptical about arms doing rly good dps. Remember some numbers (dps @fester)?

Anyways you got me curious I will give it a try when I have time.

[barnett12345]

the talents are not loading bruh

[NagyDavid]

please update the talent tree link, i rly need the talents !

[Panofsky]

If I remember correctly these are the two talent specs mentioned by Offbeat.
- Improved execute spec: https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#Lhr...0bRdGuioGxc0bb
- Incite spec: https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#LhrcdfIt00bRdGuiohxZbI

Edit. Glyphs are: Mortal Strike, Rending and Execution for major; Bloodsurge, Battle and Command for minor.

[adikted012]

is Tiny Abom trinket viable for arms spec? :D

[Gnimo]

DBW and STS are the way to go...
As for the spec, going for:
https://wotlk.evowow.com/?talent#LhrcbfIt0bbRdGziohxZbI
Would be the best choice.

Weapon Mastery reduces the expertise cap to 18.
Sudden Death in this spec is not great cos u want to do as many Heroic Strikes/Cleaves as posible, and Mortal Strike and Cleave will make u rage starve a lot if u are not BiS (even if BiS if u use MS and execute recklessly u wont have rage).
U can put those 2 last rage points in improved demo shout or sudden death and use Execute when u have to move.

The Rotation Should be simply:
Abilities: Rend > MS > OP > Slam
Thats the prio list.
Melee attacks: 90+ Rage = HS or Cleave
If u have less rage, just wait for auto attack
AoE: Thunderclap is great to get Blood Frenzy on all targets.
Dont use Mortal Strike if u have to heavly AoE cos u wont be able to use a lot of Cleaves.
This is all if u dont have Bladestorm ofc, since if u do, Bladestorm > Everything else.

As for Glyphs:
Mortal Strike
Rending
Cleave

Even tho Cleave wont be usefull on single target, it will be on AoE, a lot. Arms lacks aoe pressure a lot, and in some fights its really needed. If u want to glyph change, switch btwn Cleave and Heroic Strike.

As for BiS list, its easy to get 1259 arp, 264 hit, and 18 exp with the use of Penumbra, ToGC 25mhc Strength Cloak, Umbrage, Aldryanas, Coldwraith, Apocalypses, Ashen, Signetof Twilight, and 4/5.
Il link SS of the itemisation and stats tonight or tomorow since i cant reach my pc untill than.

When talking about BiS gear, arms wont ever be as good as fury when it cokes to DPS in 25m raids. In 10m raids and when having less gear, arms could parry fury on single target dmg. But, if u ask me, arms is more fun to play...
Just dont get ur hopes up in outdpsing good fury wars. U will bring unique buffs to the raid as arms, fun gameplay, but not top dps most of the time.
Last note: care for aggro. With a lot of crits u might die to this often, so be carefull.

[taralej]

Just to mention: ^that is the late-game spec. The early Arms spec dips into Fury for Imp Execute instead.

[Gnimo]

https://imgur.com/a/9W9SA

Screenshot of BiS gear... U can see the gemming i guess on Armory: Gnemo.
(1x 10expertise10hit gem instead of 10strength10hit makes expertise jump from 16 to 18 which is the cap since u have 2% dodge reduction in Weapon Mastery talent)

As for end game and early game talents, i disagree when it comes to execute spec.
Again, Execute Spec in combination with Mortal Strike spam makes u rage starve a lot.
Both crit increase on Heroic Strike/Cleave and Thunder Clap will help u a low with AoE dps and Deep Wounds count, which is really important cos DW will be one of the top 3 DMG done abilities and will make all ur targets with that dot get both Trauma and Blood Frenzy on them...

I personaly didnt test Arms at lower gear point, but when it comes to end game, Execute spec is not something u want if u want to maximise ur DPS.
Arms will be more fun and satisfying in 10m raids, especialy outside of ICC. U wont have Rage Problems which u might have sometimes as Fury.

Overall, if u ask me, try out both. Test them urself and see which one suits u the most.

Best of Luck.

[Panofsky]

Arms doesn't seem to lack aoe pressure from my personal experience. A clever use of Sweeping Strikes and Cleave should never leave you with a low amount of rage even if you use an Incite +Sudden Death spec or an Improved Execute spec (this one also increasing your Cleave additional damage by 120%). Improved Bloodrage or the Glyph of Sweeping Strikes help a lot.
The Deep Wounds procs should be guaranteed by the Overpower critical hits (which are almost certain, thanks to the Improved Overpower talent).
I don't think it's useful to spec into Weapon Mastery because the arms spec already have 4 expertise points granted by the Strength of Arms talent. As far as I remember from my gameplay in a progressive wotlk server, you shouldn't need any expertise gem, while it's way harder to reach the hit cap, if compared with Fury (no Precision).
I ended up using the Incite+Sudden Death spec during the tier 7 and 8 pve content and I remember having some rage issues on some boss fights, but they were the same rage issues that didn't let me spam Heroic Strike when I tried to respec into Fury. It was related only to the single target rotation. When you are low geared as Arms pve (I mean from 200 to 232 ilvl) on single target you simply use Rend, Mortal Strike and Overpower, with some Slam cast here and there (avoid spamming it) and very few, few Heroic Strike (Sunder Armor and Demoralizing Shout should be used by Protection (applied by Devastate) or Fury warriors, if any of them have joined your raid). When Sudden Death procs, you shouldn't use Execute immediatly but you should wait to build up a bit of rage by avoiding the Slam casts.
When I needed to to pull some aoe pressure (not talking only about dungeons but also boss fights like Sartharion + 3 drakes or Gluth) the combination of Bladestorm + Sweeping Strikes + Improved Bloodrage + Cleave always gave me good numbers.

[taralej]

nonono, ofc Execute is weaker late because at that point you hit harder with your weapon abilities than with your Execute :D that's not the point

Early game, Execute can hit harder than any of your abilities and is your most rage-efficient ability. By design, Execute spec cannot ragestarve you. Sudden Death leaves you at 10 rage, Imp Execute drops Exe's rage cost to 10 - quickmath. So <20% you just spam Execute non-stop forever until the boss dies. It's pretty fun, but yeah - lategame it cannot come even close to Incite. 15% crit on HS and Cleave is just too much, compared to a synergy spec focused on an ability that gets outscaled and is only used <20%.

[adikted012]

idk why hc is good you will waste your melee swing for a skill than execute + white dmg?

[Offbeat]

Talent links updated - yes I still troll the forums now and then.

One small thing though, has the Battle Stance / Blood Gorged et al. bug been fixed? For those who aren't familiar with it, those talents / abilities were supposed to lower your Arp cap by basically giving you a free 10% Arp (so that you only needed 90% sheet Arp to reach the cap - 1260 in other words). However, they were bugged to only grant something like 1% ArP (or 10% of the ArP you already had?). Basically they became more or less worthless.

If not I will have to do a revision on that section of the guide.

Additionally: someone above posted a spec without Sudden Death. Unless there are serious bugs with the damage calculations, Sudden Death will always be a dps gain. There's no way around it. Even with Execute's poor scaling, it is still a worthwhile ability. It almost always does more damage than a Slam, so for that reason alone it's already worth taking. Not to mention that you completely negate your 4pT10 bonus by not taking it.

[jisushadaegis]

Sorry for this ignorant question
But why should I use Heroic Strike on a target, doesn't it generate threat?

[AnaXor1]

Ponete a estudiar zonzo cabeza de huevo