1. [Guide] Hitting things smartly:Arms PVE Revisited

    I am making this guide mostly because the other one doesn't seem to be maintained anymore, as well has having had very few updates.

    This is not intended to be a discussion on the viability of Arms in a pve setting, it is a guide for those who wish to spec Arms for pve. If you wish to flame me or anyone else about "ARMS = PVP NOOB" or somesuch, take it elsewhere, you will simply be ignored.

    If you feel the need to "TLDR etc" this post... Not reading it immediately disqualifies you from having any sort of opinion... It's like voting without even knowing who the candidates are.

    Right, let's get to it:

    Why spec arms?

    Arms is, first and foremost, a utility spec. Assuming you are in a competent raid, you WILL NOT be topping the dps meters on most fights. However, your presence can bring about a big boost in the raid's dps, more so than your personal dps will increase by speccing Fury (In BiS gear, Fury sims out around 1-2k more, while the raid dps gained in 25-man from having an Arms warrior is around 4k+, depending on the raid composition).

    The main (de)buffs you bring are Trauma (30% extra bleed damage) and Blood Frenzy (4% extra physical damage). Both of these debuffs are applied more or less automatically, simply by going through your rotation.

    Arms vs Fury

    Arms is, in my opinion, a much more involving spec to play than Fury. It requires you to pay very close attention to your rage income, you need to make split-second decisions, and penalises you heavily if you mess up. In short, if you like a challenge and having to work hard for optimal results, you will probably find Arms to your liking.

    I will say again, though, Arms will not get you to the top of dps meters (assuming you're in a competent raid), so don't expect spectaular dps. That said, it isn't worthless dps either. Arms still does more damage than the other "red haired stepchild" specs (Subtlety, Frost Mage, Beast Mastery), and can be quite competitive on certain fights.

    A lot of the bad reputation Arms gets comes from people who go from Fury to Arms, try it out in one or two heroics and come away disappointed. I will only say this once:

    ARMS IS NOT FOR THE FAINTHEARTED!


    Arms takes time, practice and a fair amount of experience to play optimally. You simply cannot wade in with whatever gear you have and expect to do well.

    The biggest difference between Arms and Fury, from a slightly philosophycal point of view, is what I call a "Less is More" principle. With Fury, and this is especially true at high gear levels, you have to try to spend your rage almost as quickly as it comes in, generally by having HS / Cleave qued as much as possible. This is because you will almost inevitably have enough rage to use your next ability, and should try to avoid getting rage-capped. With Arms, on the other hand, you have to constantly be thinking of not only the ability you use now, but whether you will have enough rage left to perform the next one or two abilities. In essence, you have to constantly be saving rage, while with Fury you try to spend as much as possible.

    Talents

    There are 2 main specs you can choose from, both with their own pros and cons. Both have more or less the same Arms talents (there isn't much in the way of choice here), but the subspecs differ:

    First spec is the Improved Execute subspec:

    Improved Execute subspec

    This spec is the best spec when you're starting out, largely due to the higher relative damage of Execute compared to your other abilities at lower gear levels. Once you get the 4pc t10 bonus, this spec once again gains ground compared to Incite spec due to higher Execute usage (the two are very close at this level, but Incite still pulls ahead). Another benefit of this spec is that it gives you a fair amount of leeway in your talent selection, mostly in the Fury tree. If you already have another warrior specced into Commanding Presence, you're free to spend the points elsewhere (Typically in Imp Cleave / Piercing Howl).

    Then there is the Incite subspec:

    Incite subspec

    This is the highest personal dps spec if you are in mid- to high level gear (around 245+) AND you are capable at managing your rage. The main value of this spec is, as mentioned, higher personal dps due to more effective HS, Cleave and Thunderclap (aoe). But it does require you to be extremely attentive to your rage income and expenditure. It does give you the option of dropping Slam from your rotation entirely and using HS and Cleave as your sole rage-dumps, but this isn't recommended unless you're absolutely sure that it will be a nett gain. This is typically done in conjunction with dropping a point in Incite in order to pick up Piercing Howl for select fights (LK, mostly).

    As I have mentioned earlier, Arms is primarily a utility spec, and as such it will be up to you to adapt your spec as your guild requires.

    As for some specific optional talents:

    Anger Management: Take this if you feel you are constantly constrained by rage (Drop a point from Imp Execute to get it, it's already part of Incite subspec).

    Weapon Mastery: This talent is only worth it if you have less than 18 expertise. Remember, as Arms, the penalty for not being Exp capped isn't nearly as big as for other specs, because it allows us to use another OP (which is almost guaranteed to crit at decent gear levels). If you find yourself very low on Exp, drop 1 point from Imp Slam / Anger Management to get 1 point here. Personally (on retail) I've run with 12 Exp without speccing into this and didn't suffer too much of a dps loss, it's just annoying when you have to spend an extra GCD to reapply rend / your MS gets dodged.

    Unbridled Wrath: Don't get this talent, it simply isn't worth it. A small chance to gain 1 extra point of rage when you hit just doesn't justify the amount of points you have to spend to make it worthwhile. Arms doesn't attack quickly enough for this talent to be of any real use. If you need extra rage, get Anger Management and more importantly, take a close look at how you manage your rage.

    Piercing Howl: This is a very handy ability on some fights, and practically useless on others, take it if you feel you need it, although it isn't a strict dps gain.

    Improved Cleave: If you find yourself regularly having more than 2 targets, this talent could be worth it (mostly while doing heroics / FOS + POS etc). It can be a decent dps gain on fights with regular adds.

    Enrage: The only reason this is here is because I've seen a few Arms warriors with this talent... DO NOT GET IT. It doesn't stack with Wrecking Crew, which will be up for the vast majority of most encounters.

    Blood Craze: PVP talent, absolutely no point in taking this.

    Improved Demo Shout: If your healers are complaining that the tanks take too much damage, this talent could be worth it (although it's probably more of a gear issue). I have heard that Molten bosses don't have AP, though, so it could be completely worthless.

    Glyphs

    There are several options available to you when it comes to Glyphs, all with relative value, depending on the encounter / your spec / your playstyle. In no particular order:

    Bladestorm - One of my personal favourite glyphs. The ability to use BS more often is especially usefull on fights with adds. Not to mention that proper BS usage is a decent dps gain on both single and multi-target.

    Mortal Strike - It buffs your hardest-hitting abililty, the ability you use on cooldown. Get this for single target encounters.

    Rending - It saves you extra GCD's. On single target encounters it is a must-have, since it nets you about 2 extra slams per minute (could be wrong on the exact number).

    Heroic Strike - Competes very well with BS glyph on single target encounters, especially when used in conjunction with Incite spec.

    Cleaving - Don't use this for single-target fights, unless you'll be spending a significant amount of time facing more than 2 targets. Can be used in place of MS glyph if there are parctically constant adds (such as Anub in ToC).

    Execution - This glyph has a place at lower gear levels, when Execute is one of your hardest-hitting abiliies. Typically you'll be doing heroics and POS / FOS at this point, so Rending won't be so much of a gain (due to shorter boss fights) as this glyph.

    Sweeping Strikes - A nice glyph for heroics etc, allows you to use SS straight off the bat without having to wait for additional rage to continue your rotation. Has very little (if any) use in raids.

    Ability usage

    Arms, as with most specs in WotLK, doesn't use a set rotation but rather a priority system. It is as follows:

    Single target damage priority:
    Make sure rend is always up
    Mortal strike
    Overpower
    Execute
    Bladestorm
    Heroic strike if you have over 75 rage
    Slam is your filler

    2-3 target damage priority:
    Make sure rend is always up
    Sweeping strikes
    Mortal strike
    Overpower
    Execute
    Bladestorm
    Cleave if you have over 75 rage
    Slam is your filler

    4 target damage priority:
    Rend a target that will most likely live the longest
    Thunderclap
    Bladestorm
    Sweeping strikes
    Mortal Strike
    Cleave if you have over 75 rage
    Overpower
    Execute
    Slam is your filler

    5+ target damage priority:

    Thunderclap
    Bladestorm
    Sweeping strikes
    Mortal Strike
    Cleave if you have over 75 rage
    Rend a target that will most likely live the longest
    Overpower
    Execute
    Slam is your filler

    Taken from http://www.wowsubprime.com/forums/vi...t=0&view=print

    Stats

    I'm not going to give you a specific gearing guide / set up a BiS list, you can decide that for yourself. As for what stats you want, in order of importance:

    Hit - You need 8% to be melee hit-cappped. At this point none of your abilities will miss (they can still be dodged / parried, Auto-attacks will still glance [this cannot be avoided]). If you are a Draenei / are certain that you will always have one in your party (their buff IS NOT raidwide) this drops to 7%. This is the single most important stat you should aim for if not capped, unlike being dodged, you gain nothing from missing an attack (and wasting rage in the process).

    Apparently the hit-cap is closer to 9% on Molten. I suggest getting as close to that as possible without making any drastic changes to your other stats.

    Expertise - Despite what I said above, don't ignore expertise completely. If you have no Expertise whatsoever, it becomes one of the main stats you should aim for. There is a point where having a large amount of your main attacks (MS / Rend / Slam / HS) dodged outweighs the extra OP's you get. A safe bet is to try to stay above 18.

    Armor Penetration - After your hit and expertise is looked after, this is the next stat you should aim for... IF you already have around 45% ArP (by way of a trinket proc like MR) or around 60% from gear alone (before gems). When you reach this point, you should aim to get up to 100% during the proc, or as high as possible if not using a proc trinket (eventually you will try to cap this at 100% without a proc). Remember that Battle Stance (the stance you'll be dpsing in 99% of the time) gives you 10% passive ArP, and Mace Spec gives 15%. Both of these you can simply add onto the ArP percentage displayed on your character sheet (mouse over Hit to see it) to get your final ArP value.

    The respective caps for Arp is as follows:

    -1400 rating without Battle stance & Mace Spec (Not relevant to Arms since you'll spend most of your time in Battle Stance)
    -1260 with Battle Stance
    -1050 with Battle Stance + Mace spec
    -1177 with 2p t9
    -967 with 2p t9 + Mace Spec

    Strength / AP - More Strength (and consequently AP) is always a linear dps increase. It's simple, your abilities hit harder. Don't gem for it once you have enough ArP to gem ArP, since you'll typically get enough from gear. However, once you're hard-capped on ArP, you can fill the rest of your gem slots with Strength / Strength + Crit gems (if the socket bonus is 6 Str or more).

    Crit - Crit is a very important stat for Arms. Your talents (Deep Wounds, Wrecking Crew, Trauma, Impale) depend on you having a healthy amount of crit in order to maintain good dps. The minimum amount of crit you should aim for is around 35% unbuffed. This will allow your OP to crit almost all the time in raid buffs (where you'll be at 40%+), allowing Trauma and Wrecking Crew to be up almost permanently. Crit is so important that in some slots Agility items (Such as the EOF Cloak, Ashen Ring) are considered to be BiS, even if it is at the expense of some Strength. In BiS gear you'll have close to 60% (or more) crit raidbuffed.

    Haste - Avoid it like the plague (although you'll probably pick up one or two pieces while gearing)! Seriously though, Haste does very little for Arms, and at some points (once your swing timer goes below 3 sec without BL) actually ends up being a dps loss. In order for Haste to gain a positve dps value, you need an obscene amount of it (in the order of 1300 or thereabouts), while sacrificing a lot of other positive stats.

    Weapons

    As with most physical damage dealers, your weapon is the single biggest contributor to your dps. When choosing a weapon, there are several factors you have to look at in order to decide which is best.

    Weapon spec: In its simplest terms - Poleaxe > Mace >>>>>> Swords

    The additional crit chance and crit damage of Poleaxe spec outweighs any of the other potential bonusses from Mace or Sword spec. Axe spec is the only one of the three specs that essentially increases its own value: The increased crit chance increases the value of the increased crit damage. This is in addition to the high value Arms already places on Crit.

    Mace spec isn't far behind Axe spec, but it loses out due to the loss of crit. Also, with the amounts of ArP avilable on ToC and ICC gear, it isn't very likely that you'll truely NEED the extra ArP, at least not at the expense of the Poleaxe bonus.

    Sword spec is terrible, sorry to say. Blizzard added a 6sec internal cooldown, meaning that the proc could only occur once every second swing (or at least in that time-frame, it procs from abilities aswell). An additional problem is that it procs a white swing, which can be a glancing blow, further reducing the value of this spec.

    Weapon damage / Speed: This is the single most important part of choosing your weapon. An ilvl 284 weapon will always produce superior results to an ilvl 264 weapon, regardless of the weapon spec, regardless of the stats (caster weapons and feral / hunter Staves excluded, ofc). By weapon damage I mean the average between the min and max damage displayed on the weapon. With weapons of equal ilvl, the slower weapon will generally be the best bet (assuming they're both of the same weapon type, if you're comparing equal ilvl maces and axes, the axe will usually be best, though there are exceptions [Cryptmaker vs Bryntoll]).

    For example, let's say you have two theoretical weapons of equal ilvl (and consquently dps), weapon type and stats, but different speeds - 3.6 and 3.4 for the purposes of this example. The 3.6 weapon will be the clear winner. This is because a lot of your abilities - specifically MS, OP, HS Slam and Deep Wounds - are based on the base weapon damage with various modifiers.

    As for which specific weapons you should aim for, in order of value:

    Donor weapons:

    Shadowmourne - Not much to be said about this, it ticks all the boxes - and then some - when it comes to weapons.

    Oathbinder (HC or Normal if you're not donating) - As has been said several times elsewhere, if you can't get SM, this is BiS. It has a LOT of ArP, gives a lot of crit, counts towards Poleaxe spec, has a decent amount of AP and is slow (3.6). DO NOT get Glorenzelg over this if you are serious about Arms. The normal version is the best weapon you can obtain in-game. Depends on your guild whether they'd let you have it over a Feral / Hunter. Cannot be dual-wielded if you plan on speccing Fury

    Cryptmaker HC - If you can't afford SM or Oathbinder, this is the next-best bet. Frees up a lot of hit on other gear, aswell as ArP (from the weapon and Mace spec). The slight loss of weapon damage compared to Glorenzelg is, in my opinion, quite worth it compared to the stats you get from the sword.

    Glorenzelg HC - The only reason you should have this as Arms is if you respecced from Fury. It isn't a bad weapon per se, with a good amount of Strength, decent Crit, a ton of Expertise (read stat weights about that, though), 3 red sockets aswell as its inherent weapon damage. But, and this is a big but, Sword spec really is quite bad in WotLK. You'll still see decent dps with this, but nowhere near as much as with the other options.

    Non-donor weapons:

    Oathbinder -> Shadow's Edge -> Cryptmaker -> Glorenzelg Norm -> Bryntoll
    Followed by various 10-man weapons, which i simply don't have the energy to list atm.

    Sunder Armor

    A special note on how Sunder interacts with our dps, and specifically with ArP.

    This http://www.wowpedia.org/Armor_penetr...m_Ghostcrawler information refers.

    With regards to ArP: Firstly, Sunder and ArP DO NOT do the same thing. Sunder reduces the actual armor of the target, while ArP essentially allows you to ignore a certain amount of the target's armor. In a nutshell, ArP will never ignore ALL of a target's armor, as can be seen in GC's explanation. Now, what Sunder (and similar debuffs) does is reduce the initial armor of the target (as in the armor on their character sheet - if mobs had such a thing). What this means that the amount of armor that ArP has to deal with is basically reduced BEFORE the ArP calculation comes into effect.

    What this means for your dps is that having Sunder up will always be a dps increase, regardless of your level of ArP.

    Who should maintain Sunder: If you have a Prot warrior, rejoyce, no need to worry. If not... Fury warriors are the ideal candidates , since they are much more likely to have spare GCD's in which to firstly get Sunder up, and then maintain it. They will probably complain about the dps loss (just tell them to shut up and deal with it :D), but it is in fact a dps gain for themselves once the boss lasts longer than around 2 minutes. If there is no Fury warrior present the responsibility will fall on you, assuming there are other physical dps classes. If you are the only physical dps (quite possible in a 10-man), Sunder will only start being a personal dps gain if the boss lasts longer than 3 minutes. This is because of the amount of GCD's used to get it up initially. Once it is fully stacked, it only requires one GCD eevery 30 seconds to maintain, so keep track of when you may have to move, so you can refresh it rather than having to reapply it.

    A side note on Sunder: The optimal way to apply and maintain it is supposed to be that all the warriors just spend a few GCD's on it at the start, and share the maintenance duties between themselves. Unfortunately this is bugged on Molten, as one warrior's Sunder will replace another's, instead of stacking up together.

    Thank you for reading this guide. If you have any questions , suggestions or feedback, feel free to post it here or to PM me.
    Edited: December 20, 2017

  2. Advanced Priorities

    Bladestorm: BS should be used as soon as possible after it becomes available, IF both TfB OP and MS are on cooldown, and preferably right after a Sudden Death Execute. For instance, your opening rotation will look something like this:

    Charge (always start with this, the rage and Juggernaught buff is well worth it) > Rend > MS > Slam > OP > SD if procced > Bladestorm

    After you come out of the first BS, just about everything will be available (and probably SD aswell), so stick to your priorities at this point. For subsequent Bladestorms, make sure you have both OP and MS on cooldown before using it. Typicaly it will go something like this: OP > MS > SD if procced > Bladestorm

    Taste for Blood: Even though TfB ranks higher than most abilities on the priority system, you can always delay it for up to 6 seconds before the next proc overrides the current one. In practice, this means that, if you have MS or SD available when TfB procs, those two abilities take higher priority than OP. The most important thing with TfB is that you never let one proc be overriden by the following one.

    Sudden Death: Although an SD Execute doesn't hit as hard as MS or (in some cases) OP, when this procs, it always becomes your highest priority apart from keeping Rend up. For instance, if you get both OP and SD procced at the same time, you should use Execute first, and the same goes for MS when it comes off cooldown at the same time as an SD proc. The main reason for this is that the MS or OP can proc an additional SD, while if you didn't use the proc beforehand, you'd be wasting a proc aswell as not having the benefit of an additional Execute to use.

    In the case of OP, the only time you won't do the abovementioned is if TfB is about to fall off and you won't have time to use it before it gets overridden.

    Heroic Strike and Cleave: Your usage of these two abilities is what will make the difference between being an average or a good Arms warrior. While the safest bet is to use them only when you have 75 or more rage, you won't get to use them a lot at all if you stick that as a hard and fast rule. The biggest factor you always (as I said at the start) have to take into consideration is whether you will have enough rage to perform your other abilities untill the next melee swing. On fights with constant / regular raid damage you will have a lot more opportunity to use them (even if you're at low rage) than on static fights without raid damage. If you have Bloodrage available, you can probably afford to use HS or Cleave at or below 30 Rage, since the ability (especially if talented) will make up for the otherwise lost rage. Essentially, any scrap of rage that you don't need to continue your normal rotation should be used on one fo these two abilities.

    Contrary to what I said at the start, getting rage-capped is just as bad for Arms as it is for Fury. If you find yourself regularly sitting at 100 rage, you should use HS / Cleave much more often.

    Slam: Slam is right at the bottom of your priority system. However, how you use it will have a major impact on your dps. Although MS hits much harder than a Slam, 2 Slams will always be more damage than one MS. So, if you find yourself with 30 rage just after a melee swing and just MS available, rather use 2 Slams before the next swing. It gives you more damage than a single MS would, gives you a higher chance of a crit (simply because it's more swings) and also gives a higher chance to proc SD. The same goes for HS, if you can't decide whether to use HS or Slam, Slam will probably be the safer bet in a low-rage situation.




  3. Good guide... but? Why arms better then fury? You didnt explain.. Only your opinion..IN my opinion a skilled fury, with correct gear, will always rip arms, no matter of gear and skills. Perhaps most of you will argue... but fury is better then arms. More dps... You might die faster... I havent met much good fury warriors. And about the Execute part... No, just no...
    Never use inproved execute or the talent in arms that grants you execute. First of all, execute is a rage eater, even though u can get the glyph and the talent in fury. Second, to do that, your wasting 5 extra talents (3 in that arms thing, 2 in fury, and + u need 2 more in fury in something to unlock the improved execute. Even fury warriors dont use improved execute. Then... Lets say it eats 40 rage. On reality, it actually eats like 80. Just like heroic strike should eat 15, it actually eats 50... Then... Id rather get talents like i got for arms, with the change of poleaxe/mace/sword spec.
    Look me up, Tiderion on Sargeras
    My opnion about the guide: 7/10
    ;)

  4. Noblesse's Avatar
    Noblesse
    Guest
    Good guide... but? Why arms better then fury? You didnt explain.. Only your opinion..IN my opinion a skilled fury, with correct gear, will always rip arms, no matter of gear and skills. Perhaps most of you will argue... but fury is better then arms. More dps... You might die faster... I havent met much good fury warriors. And about the Execute part... No, just no...
    Never use inproved execute or the talent in arms that grants you execute. First of all, execute is a rage eater, even though u can get the glyph and the talent in fury. Second, to do that, your wasting 5 extra talents (3 in that arms thing, 2 in fury, and + u need 2 more in fury in something to unlock the improved execute. Even fury warriors dont use improved execute. Then... Lets say it eats 40 rage. On reality, it actually eats like 80. Just like heroic strike should eat 15, it actually eats 50... Then... Id rather get talents like i got for arms, with the change of poleaxe/mace/sword spec.
    Look me up, Tiderion on Sargeras
    My opnion about the guide: 7/10
    ;)
    He did explain. You just clearly cant comprehend anything you read.

    Arms is a utility spec, he states it will not out dps fury.

    The one thing I disagreed with after skimming it was the difference in dps between arms and fury. It will be a lot more than one or two thousand dps.

  5. freezeclaw's Avatar
    freezeclaw
    Guest
    About the glyphs, is it better to switch out glyph of heroic strike for bladestorm or execution? Since at high gear levels, the heroic strike glyph is devalued as your rage gain high enough to make do with it.
    So iono which one to take, execution or bladestorm. With the 4pt10 in mind.

    And about the priorities, in single target, won't it be better to make it MS > OP(Dodged) > Exe(procced) > OP > bladestorm > exe > slam? It might be hard to fully master it, but u should prioritise the dodged OP as it goes away very fast...(for me it goes away in one gcd when i press another skill >.>) And about the procced exe vs TfB OP, won't it be better if exe gets the priority as OP will have a chance to proc exe, and it will be a dps lost if OP reprocced it when you used OP instead of exe. And, Bladestorm should be prioritized higher than Slam just because slam is spammable and bladestorm yields a dps increase.
    About heroic strike, i find myself capable of using heroic strike on lower(~50-60) rage without rage starving myself. If i accidentally queued it lower than 40, Bloodrage ftw.

    And on the AoEs, shouldn't sweeping strikes be on a higher priority than bladestorm? it's best to use cleave, sweeping strikes and bladestorm for easy dps *-*(Very.Easy)

    About the stats, how will haste actually manage to make your dps lower? And in a raid, your swing timer will automatically be lower than 3sec (~ 2.6) due to imp. icy touch / the shaman totem(forgot name)
    if bloodlust is up, its better to take slam out of your skills for the entire duration becaus slam has a fixed cast time of 0.5sec, which will actually net you a dps lost due to the fast swing timer on your swings. (i do not know the real calculation though)

    For the incite spec, dropping anger management at average gear levels or even low gear levels for weapon mastery is better as 1 rage per 3 secs is... Low. And by adding weapon mastery, it lowers your expertise cap which makes gearing easier.

    I need to find a good fury warrior in frostwolf... i've managed to outdpsed many fury wars >.> even though they have somewhat better gear. (blame molten for having bads D:<) /blame !

  6. About the glyphs, is it better to switch out glyph of heroic strike for bladestorm or execution? Since at high gear levels, the heroic strike glyph is devalued as your rage gain high enough to make do with it.
    So iono which one to take, execution or bladestorm. With the 4pt10 in mind.

    And about the priorities, in single target, won't it be better to make it MS > OP(Dodged) > Exe(procced) > OP > bladestorm > exe > slam? It might be hard to fully master it, but u should prioritise the dodged OP as it goes away very fast...(for me it goes away in one gcd when i press another skill >.>) And about the procced exe vs TfB OP, won't it be better if exe gets the priority as OP will have a chance to proc exe, and it will be a dps lost if OP reprocced it when you used OP instead of exe. And, Bladestorm should be prioritized higher than Slam just because slam is spammable and bladestorm yields a dps increase.
    About heroic strike, i find myself capable of using heroic strike on lower(~50-60) rage without rage starving myself. If i accidentally queued it lower than 40, Bloodrage ftw.

    And on the AoEs, shouldn't sweeping strikes be on a higher priority than bladestorm? it's best to use cleave, sweeping strikes and bladestorm for easy dps *-*(Very.Easy)

    About the stats, how will haste actually manage to make your dps lower? And in a raid, your swing timer will automatically be lower than 3sec (~ 2.6) due to imp. icy touch / the shaman totem(forgot name)
    if bloodlust is up, its better to take slam out of your skills for the entire duration becaus slam has a fixed cast time of 0.5sec, which will actually net you a dps lost due to the fast swing timer on your swings. (i do not know the real calculation though)

    For the incite spec, dropping anger management at average gear levels or even low gear levels for weapon mastery is better as 1 rage per 3 secs is... Low. And by adding weapon mastery, it lowers your expertise cap which makes gearing easier.

    I need to find a good fury warrior in frostwolf... i've managed to outdpsed many fury wars >.> even though they have somewhat better gear. (blame molten for having bads D:<) /blame !
    About the intricacies with priorities, I'll add a whole new section on that as I simply didn't have the energy to do it yesterday (the guide took me the better part of a day to write, did most of it from memory). I'll also add a section on professions, for those that are interested.

    As for the glyphs: In my experience, Execution doesn't quite cut it at higher gear levels, especially with Incite subspec (which you are, iirc?). Heroic Strike actually gains value the more crit you get. Typically, on a normal tank & spank fight at high gear you'll be using HS more or less every second melee swing, the HS glyph allows you to use it more often. Bladestorm glyph competes very well with HS glyph, to the point where, in my experience, the main deciding factor is the amount of time you sepnd attacking more than one target. I used to switch between BS and HS glyphs, depending on the fight.

    Anger Management & Weapon Mastery: If you find yourself low on expertise with the Incite spec, yes, Anger Management should be the first to go.

  7. - Arms vs Fury ( in BiS gear defending raid combination) Fury does 10k more dps.
    - Stats : forget about Agility? Arms warrior can gear T10 x4 + All AGI gears where you can reach almost 76% crits.
    - Talent :
    Overpowered has the highest piority.
    Sunderer always if there is not any prot warrior.
    Shattering throw : Specially good and adds pretty good situational burst. A fury warrior does not change stance to use this ability...

  8. Sestrun's Avatar
    Sestrun
    Guest
    - Arms vs Fury ( in BiS gear defending raid combination) Fury does 10k more dps.
    - Stats : forget about Agility? Arms warrior can gear T10 x4 + All AGI gears where you can reach almost 76% crits.
    - Talent :
    Overpowered has the highest piority.
    Sunderer always if there is not any prot warrior.
    Shattering throw : Specially good and adds pretty good situational burst. A fury warrior does not change stance to use this ability...
    You do realize it's not all about dps hey? Every spec brings a cetain buff/debuff to the table.


  9. The one thing I disagreed with after skimming it was the difference in dps between arms and fury. It will be a lot more than one or two thousand dps.
    Unfortunately I'm still gearing my warrior here on Molten, so can't use that as reference. But, back on retail I was rarely more than 2k below our top Fury war, and that is with about 200ms more and a crappy PC. There were fights where he pulled ahead significantly (Valithria, for what it's worth) and others where I actually beat him, but we were usually quite close (and more or less equal in gear... until he got SM :P).

    As for the difference, according to Rawr in BiS gear on a static fight with no raid damage (as if something like that exists...) the difference is around 1.5k. Admitted, it is simmed, so there is the human factor to bring in. Doesn't mean that, when properly played, the two aren't relatively close, though. Not to the point where Arms is worth more than Fury (assuming the debuffs are looked after), but it's not such a huge gap that you'll be letting your raid down by speccing Arms (if you play it well).
    ---------------------------------
    - Arms vs Fury ( in BiS gear defending raid combination) Fury does 10k more dps.
    - Stats : forget about Agility? Arms warrior can gear T10 x4 + All AGI gears where you can reach almost 76% crits.
    - Talent :
    Overpowered has the highest piority.
    Sunderer always if there is not any prot warrior.
    Shattering throw : Specially good and adds pretty good situational burst. A fury warrior does not change stance to use this ability...
    Agility in itself isn't a stat you aim for. Rather, you aim for the crit you get from it. No need to add it as a stat. But I'll add some more to the Crit section about it.

    As I said, I'll be adding more to the guide, especially with regards to priorities. But, a TfB OP doesn't rank higher than MS, since you have a 6sec window to use it in. As for Sunder, Fury is much better at it than Arms, they can do it with very little disruption to their rotation, at least not nearly as much as for Arms. If no one else is doing it though, yes, it's your job.

    As for the 10k: I'm not talking about pvp heroes thinking they can just waltz in and do good dps. A properly played Arms war WILL be relatively close (within 1-2k dps on most fights) to an equally geared Fury war. Also, the raid dps increase I mentioned assumed just one of each physical class / spec. It could be much more than 4k, depending on the raid composition.
    ---------------------------------
    Good guide... but? Why arms better then fury? You didnt explain.. Only your opinion..IN my opinion a skilled fury, with correct gear, will always rip arms, no matter of gear and skills. Perhaps most of you will argue... but fury is better then arms. More dps... You might die faster... I havent met much good fury warriors. And about the Execute part... No, just no...
    Never use inproved execute or the talent in arms that grants you execute. First of all, execute is a rage eater, even though u can get the glyph and the talent in fury. Second, to do that, your wasting 5 extra talents (3 in that arms thing, 2 in fury, and + u need 2 more in fury in something to unlock the improved execute. Even fury warriors dont use improved execute. Then... Lets say it eats 40 rage. On reality, it actually eats like 80. Just like heroic strike should eat 15, it actually eats 50... Then... Id rather get talents like i got for arms, with the change of poleaxe/mace/sword spec.
    Look me up, Tiderion on Sargeras
    My opnion about the guide: 7/10
    ;)
    I'm not going to dignify this with a response.
    Edit: I lie, I'll bite...

    Firstly, as per your armory, that's a pvp spec with 2/3 Deep Wounds... No.

    Execute uses a maximum of 30 rage, I don't know where you get this from. It's an instant, not like HS which is on next hit.

    The rest still isn't worthy of a response.

  10. Noblesse's Avatar
    Noblesse
    Guest
    - Arms vs Fury ( in BiS gear defending raid combination) Fury does 10k more dps.
    - Stats : forget about Agility? Arms warrior can gear T10 x4 + All AGI gears where you can reach almost 76% crits.
    - Talent :
    Overpowered has the highest piority.
    Sunderer always if there is not any prot warrior.
    Shattering throw : Specially good and adds pretty good situational burst. A fury warrior does not change stance to use this ability...
    76% crit is way over the soft cap.

  11. freezeclaw's Avatar
    freezeclaw
    Guest
    76% crit is way over the soft cap.
    Unless, you are both hit and expertise capped O_ O

  12. Great guide, that is how you play Arms in PvE. +1

    Also, the PvE hit cap is slightly bugged on Molten. It is roughly 9% hit for special melee attacks.

  13. Great guide, that is how you play Arms in PvE. +1

    Also, the PvE hit cap is slightly bugged on Molten. It is roughly 9% hit for special melee attacks.
    Thanks.

    I'm not so sure about that bug. I've been running with just over 8% on several melee chars, and have yet to notice a miss (perhaps I'm just not paying attention to it).

  14. I've seen it multiple times in raids when I tank with 263 hit rating. Go sit at the heroic dummy for a few minutes and you'll see misses.

  15. Noblesse's Avatar
    Noblesse
    Guest
    Unless, you are both hit and expertise capped O_ O
    Not unless youre hit hard capped.

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