1. "3 points in Incanter's Absorption. The only reason I'm mentioning these points as interchangable is because most mages have no idea on how to actually use this. If you raid ICC and want to maximise your damage, the talent is a must."

    How do you actually use Incanters absorption in pve?

  2. How do you actually use Incanters absorption in pve?
    It's pretty easy but it gets dodgy if you don't have good knowledge on how to maximize gcd usage, you'll be alright if you only use the wards to proc it.
    On some rare occasions you can make the judgement if you have enough mana to utilize mana shield but you'll have to be careful because if it forces you to evocate when you would be otherwise be dpsing, you'll lose dps.

    On certain bosses with aoe frost or fire dmg such as marrowgar, gsb, bpc, vdw sindragosa and LK wards can be incredibly useful to boost your dps with some foresight.

    Even if you only use it one or twice on one of those fights it's still a dps gain so go for it and remember to use it as much as you can without frying yourself in fires.

  3. This guide has so much wrong I don't really want to write it all.

    For example, there is a haste cap and I will share it with you, it depend of your latency though so you will have to find it for yourself, no magical number for everyone.

    After you are done casting AM you get a 5 second buff on yourself that give you 12% casting speed, in that time you should be able to cast 3 AB and have time to start casting a 4th AB or AM (depending did one of first 2AB proc AM) because it get buffed with 12 spell cast speed, even if you only cast 0.1sec of that new AB with 0.1second of the 12 spell cast speed buff the whole cast will be boosted. So AB with basic buffs inside the raid should be less than 1.6second cast. Well that's only for ICC mages of course.

    Also when you already have 4 AB stacks , you don't go for more AB unless you are blowing CD-s and spamming AB (for crying out loud don't AM when you have APower, unless you are low on mana which mean you didn't prepare for AB spam and full use of Arcane Power) when you have 4 AB even if you have enough mana you don't continue AB-ing , its not WORTH IT! You will go oom and become useless before you blink in reality .

    And you DON'T! Presence of Mind if you don't have 3 or 4 stacks of AB! (I Recommend 4 if you have some boost on top of POM) you get 30% bonus crit when you use Presence of mind!

    I just don't understand how do some people give themselves the right to teach people how to play a class when they are lacking the basics.

  4. I just don't understand how do some people give themselves the right to teach people how to play a class when they are lacking the basics.
    And yet u said:
    (for crying out loud don't AM when you have APower, unless you are low on mana which mean you didn't prepare for AB spam and full use of Arcane Power)
    U do realise thats the dumbest advice u ever gave to someone?
    Spamming AB like crazy will make u oom by the end of APower, and before u say u have evocation for that, just dont. Also, not doin AM makes u lose the 12% haste buff. And on top of everything, 3x AB > 1x AM will always be better, burst, no burst, doesnt matter.


  5. U do realise thats the dumbest advice u ever gave to someone?
    Spamming AB like crazy will make u oom by the end of APower, and before u say u have evocation for that, just dont. Also, not doin AM makes u lose the 12% haste buff. And on top of everything, 3x AB > 1x AM will always be better, burst, no burst, doesnt matter.
    After AB spam you need to do evocation , you don't go below 25% mana when spamming AB.

    Edit: At last second of APower you do AM and then with the 12% cast speed you do evocation to min max.
    Edited: June 28, 2017

  6. After AB spam you need to do evocation , you don't go below 25% mana when spamming AB.

    Edit: At last second of APower you do AM and then with the 12% cast speed you do evocation to min max.
    No. Its time to stop...
    U never, NEVER, spam AB like a ******. NEVER!
    AM with the AB buff will do MORE DMG than 5th AB, and on top of that its going to give u 12% haste so yea...

    3x AB > 1x AM is the rotation.
    If u can fit 4x AB > 1x AM within that 12% haste set bonus, with help of Heroism, Icy Veins, Engi gloves, Haste pot, w/e, do it...
    Otherwise: AB > AB > AB > AM > AB > AB > AB > AM ... repeat.
    P.S. Try not to overdo it on Haste with Hero + Icy Veins + Gloves + Pot. If u can fit 4x AB > 1x AM with Hero only, save Icy Veins and rest of haste buffs for when Hero ends.

  7. This guide has so much wrong I don't really want to write it all.

    For example, there is a haste cap and I will share it with you, it depend of your latency though so you will have to find it for yourself, no magical number for everyone.

    After you are done casting AM you get a 5 second buff on yourself that give you 12% casting speed, in that time you should be able to cast 3 AB and have time to start casting a 4th AB or AM (depending did one of first 2AB proc AM) because it get buffed with 12 spell cast speed, even if you only cast 0.1sec of that new AB with 0.1second of the 12 spell cast speed buff the whole cast will be boosted. So AB with basic buffs inside the raid should be less than 1.6second cast. Well that's only for ICC mages of course.

    Also when you already have 4 AB stacks , you don't go for more AB unless you are blowing CD-s and spamming AB (for crying out loud don't AM when you have APower, unless you are low on mana which mean you didn't prepare for AB spam and full use of Arcane Power) when you have 4 AB even if you have enough mana you don't continue AB-ing , its not WORTH IT! You will go oom and become useless before you blink in reality .

    And you DON'T! Presence of Mind if you don't have 3 or 4 stacks of AB! (I Recommend 4 if you have some boost on top of POM) you get 30% bonus crit when you use Presence of mind!

    I just don't understand how do some people give themselves the right to teach people how to play a class when they are lacking the basics.
    Ok dude, to my mind you said some good things and some ****,

    For the haste cap, at end gear icc why limiting yourself at 3AB per rotation, find you cap to reach 4 on 12% haste buff, if you stay in the range of the shamy totem it's easy, for an exemple 50% haste (in an optimize raid, with the 12%buff) your casting time drop to 1sec ok, so aim something like 1.2s casting (1,2x4 = 4.8 btw < 5sec), than during you burst spread you CDs (IV EngineerGloves Berserk IP Heroism) to constantly be at 1s, never under. This way you will maximize damages,

    Additionnals advices :
    - Call PI on Arcane Power (mana efficience improved)
    - Do not spam AB on 1s casting phases for 2 reasons : -first with the haste cap i give to you you will be half your fight at 1s and so you don't optimize the buff give by the 2T10, - 2d reason : damages mades by the AM are insane (4 tics) in the same time you cast a AB (this is your most powerfull spell not the AB 4stacks)
    - Use Spirit of Mind right before the AM, the channeling is not count as a 10s cast spell so you should be on arcane potency the whole AM (4 tics) + then 1st AB (but take care most of TFK cores are bugged at this mecanic and only apply arcane potency on the 2 first tic.

    In general in my opinion you miss judge the potential of the AM.


    Tiny.

    PS : I'm open to comments. and forgive my english if you got me.

    PS : This way of playing don't need evocate yourself except on LK 25hc

  8. 4x AB > 1x AM without any help of a external Haste Buff is a tricky business...
    If u dont manage to reach the 12% Haste buff with AM u will do less DPS.
    U might even do less even if u reach it...

    Bottom line is, once u get 3/4 AB debuff Arcane Missiles deal insane amount of DMG, more than Arcane Blast ever will.
    Diference btwn 3/4 AB debuff AM and 4/4 AB debuff AM is minor and not worth 1 extra AB (1extra AB = 1/3less AM during the whole fight).
    U want to get as many AM casts as posible, they boost Arcane Mage DPS the most.

    On top of that, with 3 AB 1 AM u have more mana to spend on Incanter's Absorption using Mana Shield.
    On most short fights u can combine this with Arcane Power and finish on 1% mana left by using 1 - 2 Mana Gems, or Evocation on 50% of the fight, right before ur procs are up again, and gain even more Spell Power trough Incanter's Absorption.

    After reaching 1445 (44.07%) haste rating with gear only, i find it better to go for extra Crit and just do the 3 AB 1 AM rotation. U could posibly go for a bit less haste to match this rotation, but i dont like doin so since i have low FPS...
    Main reason is cos with Heroism/Bloodlust u dont need more than 1445 Haste from Gear alone to do 4 AB 1 AM.
    Going more Haste would be wasting stats during that buff from my pov, while u can never have enough crit.
    GCD cap is at 1sec AB cast time. 1445 Haste + Heroism/Bloodlust + 5% from Shaman totem + 3% from ret paladin aura is enough to reach that (maybe not exactly 1sec cast time, but u will do 4 AB 1 AM rotation easy).
    After Hero/BL is over u can use Icy Veins + Engi Gloves into Haste Pot for 1sec AB cast time again.

    Hell, u can test all of this urself on a dummy or in a raid and compare the results anyway... Just NEVER spam AB like crazy. Never...

    As for Presence of Mind before AM, Arcane Potency will be consumed by First Missile hit (1/5 missiles will have 30% extra crit, not all 5 of them - unless multiple Clearcasting procs, but we are talking about Arcane Potency from PoM), so its best to use PoM for a Strong AB crit i guess...

  9. Yo,

    I'm arcane mage playing with MEMORIES since Ulduar, and since you guys are arguing I'll share my math.

    I assume the following stats in raid: 70% crit for AB (which means around 61% for AM from inceneration and clearcasting+potency).
    1100 haste, namely 1.2 casting time in raid with full buffs.

    I removed all my proccing gear to have damage values of unbuffed by AB spells on dummies, I obtained:
    AB=4545 (non crit) and 8000 (crit). Which means on average AB=0.7*8000+4545*0.3=6964 damage
    AM=1714 (non crit) and 3348 (crit). Which means on average AM=13472.

    Those value were taking with low gear (I removed ring/cloak/trinket), alone on dummies. Which means I will have way higher spell in raid. AM benefits more from the spell than AB, so I will assume that AB=7000 and AM=14000 for the sake of simplicity. Note that you could change those base number depending on your gear, and then complete my post by using the same formula with in raid values, would be awesome. But I think this 2/1 ration isn't far from reality.

    2 last points before the math: each AB debuff gives 18% increase damage (glyph), so for example damage from 3AB+AM will be: 7000*(1+1.18.1.36)+14000*1.54.
    casting time will be 1.2s when under T10 buff, and 1.2s*1.12= 1.344s when not under this buff. Because it is a 12% haste buff.

    First part: rotation with no CDs

    AM=14000/1.2=11667 dps
    AB+AM=(7000+14000*1.18)/(1.2*2)=9800 dps
    2AB+AM=(7000(1+1.18)+14000*1.36)/(1.2*3)=9528 dps
    3AB+AM=(7000(1+1.18+1.36)+14000*1.54)/(1.2*4)=9654 dps
    4AB+AM=(7000(1+1.18+1.36+1.54)+14000*1.72)/(1.2*4+1.344)=9684 dps Pls note that one spell is taking longer to cast
    5AB+AM=(7000(1+1.18+1.36+1.54+1.72)+14000*1.72)/(1.2*4+1.344*2)=10406 dps
    6AB+AM=(7000(1+1.18+1.36+1.54+1.72*2)+14000*1.72)/(1.2*4+1.344*3)=9479 dps

    Ofc the smaller rotation are impossible in practice because of the missile barrage proc. But look at how constant the dps is, my conclusion is that it doesn't matter much which rotation you choose during this out of CD phase. However 4AB+AM is better than 3AB+AM. 5AB+AM is even better, but cost more mana. All higher on AB rotation will cost more mana for less dps, so avoid that out of CDs.

    Part2: burst time baby !

    Let's assume that I used AP, and got my AB stack up to 4. I am haste capped during all my arcane power like a good mage should be. This means that I have 11s left to dps under AP, and have my 4 stacks and missile ready. Pls note that this of course applies to mirror image buff/trinket buff.

    If I spam AB, I get withing those 11s: 10AB+AM=(10*7000*1.72+14000*1.72)/11=13135dps.
    If I do AM then 2 extra 4AB+AM cycle: (3*14000*1.72+2*7000*(1+1.18+1.36+1.54))/11=13033dps

    So I did the same dps spamming than with my normal cycle basicly. But with trinket procs that you have during those burst phase (you should use CDs on trinket procs), it means that AM is even more powerful, and that the normal cycle is more dps than the spamming AB cycle. And I'm not talking about the fact that you are burning your mana like a ******, and that if you use normal cycle you get the haste from T10 and need to use less haste CDs to keep this 1s cap that I assumed.

    Conclusion

    Not a big impact on the cycle you use out of CDs. 3AB+AM or 4AB+AM are nice because you get missile barrage procs more constantly. But note that spamming missile as soon as it's up is not a dps loss ! Just do as you feel confortable and preserve your mana.

    For burst phase, use a normal cycle, no doubt about this one.

    When should you go over 4AB+AM ? Only when you want to round up your CDs, like if you have 4s left of AP and are already full AB charge, then you keep spamming AB and use AM on the last sec of AP, instead of using AM directly and finish your AP by some weak *** unboosted AB. If you have time for 4 spells you can take the risk of going AM+2AB+AM, but you will lose dps if you are not lucky with missile barrage proc. Gotta improvise.

    As I said if someone can give raw values closer from what we do in raid, and use my formula it would be nice. I apologize if there is any mistake.

    Jinkho

    PS: Gnimo you are playing on Iceclown right ? Because using mana shield for incanter absorption is ******ed on Lordaeron, since the fights are 2 to 3 time as long as on Iceclown, can't affort the mana at all. That's why I never use this talent (would only be good on Syndra cause you have free gcds in my opinion).

  10. Yea, most of fights are short so i can afford doin that...
    On Lich King im not so sure id be using Mana Shield for anything. :D
    As for 3 AB or 4 AB, all i know is, after i switched to 3 AB 1 AM from 4 AB 1 AM, my DPS went up...
    Also, have in mind that there is [Glyph of Arcane Missiles] which is one of the main reasons why i think u should always try to cast more AMs than ABs.

    I kinda didnt understand the math part with AB spam tbh, but i did the test myself...

    3 AB > PoM > AB > CDs > AM > AB spam = 410k dmg over 40sec...
    total of 22 AB (12 Crits 10 Normal Hits)
    and
    1 AM (1/5 Missiles Crited) casted.

    3 AB > PoM > AB > CDs > AM > 3x AB 1x AM = 490k dmg over 40sec...
    total of 20 AB (11 Crits 9 Normal Hits)
    and
    6 AM (15/30 Missiles Crited, 2/30 Missed) casted.

    Both times trinkets proced after i used 1st AM.

    Edit:
    This is the gear i used for it...
    http://armory.warmane.com/character/...ecrown/summary
    Edited: June 30, 2017

  11. The glyph was taken into account in my math, since I took a real value for the crit on missile.

    You can't theorycraft on a single event like you did there, but what you observed is basically what I explained when I said that during burst you get such a high spell (especially with the trinket you are using), that AM will get much more value than AB.

    This 3AB+AM vs 4AB+AM thing that you are talking about shouldn't be a big difference at all as you can see with the formula, unless you are under trinket proc where you wanna spam missile asap I guess. I ain't got those trinket yet (we have some ****ty luck on DFO), so I did not tested it myself yet.

  12. Well even tho its a single event, the damage diference is huge and something that cant be neglected from my pov.

    My point was only: Dont Spam AB on Burst.

    As for 3 vs 4 AB into AM u are right. Overall DMG will be almost the same... Altho 3AM 1AB requires a bit less Haste (u can go for More Crit), will let u have more mana overall (Important for longer fights), is easyer to do (when BiS u dont need to worry about FPS not letting u get in the 12% haste window with AM when casting 4x ABs).

    I hope u break the curse and get DFO in the next raid (i know the feeling, farmed it for months aswell).

  13. Anyone got original talent picture?

  14. Since professions hasn't came soon, any suggestions what the best for an arc mage would be?

  15. Can anyone post picture or link to the talents since none of the two links i found works.

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