1. hadlokstorm's Avatar
    hadlokstorm
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    I'm sure everyone agrees that Demo is a Support DPS spec but people forgot or don't focus on the "Support" aspect of the spec.

    I dunno about you guys but people spec-ing into Demo (acting like a baus) is way better than newbs who claim that Destro is best in dps.

  2. I don't know how to create Soul Shards in DEMO SPEK! Please Please Macaroni Cheese HAALP!

  3. Ps you can't test demo dps on a dummy, your felguard will do much better damage with raid buffs plus you got an execution or decimation phase to skyrocket your dps.
    What raid buffs? Battle shout? barely makes a difference. It's the ICC buff that makes it hit hard, but then again it makes you hit harder as well. It does way too low dmg compared to the warlock.

    Destro: The Imp goes oom way too fast - prevents it from doing damage and giving you empowered imp procs
    Demo: felguard does way too low dmg
    Affli: Corruption rolls with haste - makes affli by far the best dps spec

  4. aivwaras's Avatar
    aivwaras
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    I've seen demo locks going over 22k dps in voa 25, over 28k dps in icc25. Talked to one of them. He Kinda times his meta at the peak of his procs (both trinkets, t10, ashen ring, tailoring back enhcant + hyperspeed accelarator on use) a little later than the beginning of the fight. Has anyone else ever tested this? I mean usage of meta earlier than decimation (I am talking about the fights with less than 3 mins fight time, thus having time for only 1 meta)

    In reply of the post above, the corruption rolling with haste is both a bonus and a huge minus for affliction. Yes, it's capable of doing high dps, but it's also very easy to lose the 5 sec haste buffed corruption due to fight mechanics: either due to high amount of movement or raid wide stun (like pp normal fight). Which would be a lot different with rolling crit (~70-80% crit with all procs anyone?)

    As for me, with most of the haste buffs (hyperspeed, bl, potion of speed and passive 1.2k haste) in affliction spec, I could do 19.5k dps on dbs25 at max. With demo 22.5k. That's why I wouldn't call demo only a support class. Mages love em, but being 3rd-5th dps in raid is not too shabby either.

  5. Blmaestro's Avatar
    Blmaestro
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    As for me, with most of the haste buffs (hyperspeed, bl, potion of speed and passive 1.2k haste) in affliction spec, I could do 19.5k dps on dbs25 at max. With demo 22.5k. That's why I wouldn't call demo only a support class. Mages love em, but being 3rd-5th dps in raid is not too shabby either.
    This is sorta what I'm saying, demo locks own affliction in standstill fights, on molten the felguard isn't your source of dps, it's exploiting the meta and decimation. You might be underwhelmed with your dps above 35%, but I have had many raid leaders that call on me specifically to obliterate bosses below 35%. All you affliction lovers can play around with your 5 second corruption omg op, but it's unrealistic to maintain this on bosses like LK, SINDRAGOSA, HALION and BPC, especially without following tactics and doing things right like running away with fiery combustion consumption or moving away from defile instead of getting a shaowbolt cast cuz your corruption is about to drop off. In HC raids, most fights favor demonology, though if you don't use engineering or speed pots like me, affliction could be useful with manageable 8 seconds corruption instead. As for felguard damage, it's underwhelming and doesn't benefit from the ICC buff, but raid buffs do make a difference. I'll show you recount comparing training dummy versus actual raid fight.

  6. soo... is there any reason demonology is better than affliction on molten DESPITE the bugged felguard and rolling haste with corruption? Even on retail, affli was better, and demo was only used for the SP buff. Maybe you're just not very good at managing the execute phase affliction has.

  7. hadlokstorm's Avatar
    hadlokstorm
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    Demo IS a Support type before DPS. Raid Leaders wouldn't give Demo-Locks a second look if not for the raid-wide buff.

    As per why Affliction is not up to expectations is: the Rolling Corruption and there is this bug to consider as well.

    Yeah...I know that I'm pointing out the obvious.

    For the most part, it is still Rolling Corruption's "fault" since, during execution phase, you have to make the decision of either clipping Soul Drain to refresh corruption OR just let corruption tick out while in Demo, in execution phase, pop meta and spam Soul Fire.

    __________________________________________________ _______________________________
    About the original purpose of the thread, these are my concerns (by index):

    1 -5 % crit is also given by FFB Mages ( Improved Scorch talent) and 13% spell damage can be given by UH DK and/or Druid Boomchicken. Thus these bonuses aren't provided by Demo-Locks alone.

    2 - No demonic empowerment, dropping 2 points into aftermath and not maxing out Necrosis (??????).

    3 - You are only mentioning the benefits when you should point out which glyph to use.

    4 - Nice input at the Haste bit but imo, people would get confused with that or go with tl:dr.

    12 - "Personal" BiS? I just can't wrap my head around that.


    With all the mentioned and unmentioned concerns, there are better guides which are already posted.

  8. Corruption rolling with haste instead of crit is a huge dps bonus, the only downside as you pointed out is that you can't let drain soul tick more than 2 times, but it wasn't that different on retail, it was like max 3 times.

  9. aivwaras's Avatar
    aivwaras
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    About the original purpose of the thread, these are my concerns (by index):

    1 -5 % crit is also given by FFB Mages ( Improved Scorch talent) and 13% spell damage can be given by UH DK and/or Druid Boomchicken. Thus these bonuses aren't provided by Demo-Locks alone.
    There will always be people who will say demo is a support class on any occasion, and there will be raid leaders who will take demo locks not only because of the Demonic pact but also for very nice dps they can dish out.

    And talking about the crit buffs. Mages scorch and warlocks imp shadow bolt stack here.

  10. hadlokstorm's Avatar
    hadlokstorm
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    Corruption rolling with haste instead of crit is a huge dps bonus, the only downside as you pointed out is that you can't let drain soul tick more than 2 times, but it wasn't that different on retail, it was like max 3 times.
    So rephrasing:

    Max Drain Soul ticks with Rolling Haste: 2

    Max Drain Soul ticks with Rolling Crit: 3

    It maybe just one extra tick but in a cumulative sense, it is a loss. You may say that it is a huge dps bonus but it isn't (or maybe it can't be) on par with Affliction DPS in retail. If it was a huge dps bonus, I wouldn't be hearing a lot of " Affliction isn't like it is/was on retail" comments in-game nor forums.

    There will always be people who will say demo is a support class on any occasion, and there will be raid leaders who will take demo locks not only because of the Demonic pact but also for very nice dps they can dish out.

    And talking about the crit buffs. Mages scorch and warlocks imp shadow bolt stack here.
    Initially, I was inclined to agree but remember that Demo-Locks in raid equals Demonic Pact buff. Thus it is always a given. The only thing that varies is the amount of spell power depending on what type of Demo-Lock you are. You are referring to those who excel, giving the buff AND a huge dps output at the same time so your statement further bolsters my opinion that Demo-Locks are Support FIRST and DPS SECOND.

    Forgot about them buffs stacking. Thanks.

  11. aivwaras's Avatar
    aivwaras
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    So rephrasing:

    Max Drain Soul ticks with Rolling Haste: 2

    Max Drain Soul ticks with Rolling Crit: 3

    It maybe just one extra tick but in a cumulative sense, it is a loss. You may say that it is a huge dps bonus but it isn't (or maybe it can't be) on par with Affliction DPS in retail. If it was a huge dps bonus, I wouldn't be hearing a lot of " Affliction isn't like it is/was on retail" comments in-game nor forums.



    Initially, I was inclined to agree but remember that Demo-Locks in raid equals Demonic Pact buff. Thus it is always a given. The only thing that varies is the amount of spell power depending on what type of Demo-Lock you are. You are referring to those who excel, giving the buff AND a huge dps output at the same time so your statement further bolsters my opinion that Demo-Locks are Support FIRST and DPS SECOND.

    Forgot about them buffs stacking. Thanks.
    Yes. I can't disagree with that. The demonic pact of 400-700 additional sp for the whole raid is awesome.


    Speaking about the dps. I was asking about the timing of meta in one of my previous posts above. I didn't get any replies, so I tried using it as soon as I get the most of procs in dbs fight today. Fortuntely the dfo, ring and t10 4p procced in the early beginnig (plus bloodlust). My end dps was 25.4k

  12. hadlokstorm's Avatar
    hadlokstorm
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    Speaking about the dps. I was asking about the timing of meta in one of my previous posts above. I didn't get any replies, so I tried using it as soon as I get the most of procs in dbs fight today. Fortuntely the dfo, ring and t10 4p procced in the early beginnig (plus bloodlust). My end dps was 25.4k
    In a 5 minute fight: Pop meta as soon as the fight starts so that you get another chance to pop meta when boss hp is t 35%.

    In a 3 minute fight is where I am confused: Do I pop meta at the start of the fight, rendering me meta-less at execution phase OR pop meta at execution phase ?

  13. aivwaras's Avatar
    aivwaras
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    In a 5 minute fight: Pop meta as soon as the fight starts so that you get another chance to pop meta when boss hp is t 35%.

    In a 3 minute fight is where I am confused: Do I pop meta at the start of the fight, rendering me meta-less at execution phase OR pop meta at execution phase ?
    Well as my yesterdays test showed, if the fight lasts 3 min or less, popping meta as soon as you have most of your sp procs(trinkets, enchants, ring, set bonus) and bl/heroism, it yelds such beefy corruption, immo, immo aura (and of course stronger sbolt, incin) that the bursted dps number stays almost unchanged until the decimation phase, where it gets risen again even without meta.

    All in all, it depends on luck (procs) and the fight

  14. Blmaestro's Avatar
    Blmaestro
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    Demo locks can do just as much damage as non-support specs, with the exception of ffb mages, ret palas and mm hunters. If you are comparing demo locks to arms warriors in pve, pls sir you are insulting us. They are probably the best spell power source in wotlk and properly played are in the top half dps.

    Metamorphosis is on a 126 second cooldown with max points in Nemesis. Assuming a boss hp goes down 33% a minute for a 3 minute fight, you should meta at the start and whenever decimation procs and meta is available. On shorter fights, meta on decimation would be similar as using meta at the start when trinkets and stuff proc. I've done 21.5k dps on DBS using meta at these different times, though usually they BL at start. It's roughly equal because soul fire is so freaking op with its ridiculously fast cast time and it hits like a truck, it's probably better with base spell power and no procs than non-decimation dps with all trinket, ring, tailoring back and engineering hands proc.

    But be warned, unless you got voice communication program, demo locks are the worst raid leaders. Nothing is more annoying than seeing demonic raid warning at a crucial stage and you're not sure what he wants you to do.


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