Nice stuff man, but you forgot about Mages. Mages using Mage Armor (which they will be vsing you) have an additional 40 resist, on top of common buffs like Mark of the Wild, will be at 142 Spell Resistance. Since Spell Penetration cannot reduce Spell Resistance to 0, 135 is the most common amount (Cloak enchant + 4 Stormy Majestic Zircon). Some say its not worth it just to be capped against Mages, but you will face a LOT of them in Arena and getting a Wind Shear/Hex resisted can literally lose you the game. For more info on how Spell Penetration works, check this out.--=-- SPELL PENETRATION & HIT DILEMMA --=--
I've seen a lot of questions about the usefulness of Spell Penetration stat on my realm and the overall of Internet. Some players say that Spell Penetration didn't work... Well, let see this basic concepts introduced by Blizzard (for patch3.3.5):
The effective resistance rating of the target was calculated as follows:
effective resistance rating(ERR) = Rb + max((Lt - Lc) * 5, 0) - min(P, Rb)
Rb - target base resistance (as advertised on the character sheet)
Lt - target level
Lc - caster level
P - caster spell penetration
Look at min() and max() functions! min(a, b) - returns the minimal value among a and b values!!! For lvl80 PVP Lt=Lc!!!! Then:
1.With Rb>P: ERR = Rb - P (with Gift of the Wild(75 resistances to all) you have the formula ERR = 75 - P);
2.With Rb<=P ERR = Rb - Rb = 0 ->> no character resistances.
Keep in mind, ERR is a relative parameter. ERR can be Arcane, Frost, Fire, Nature and Shadow (It's not universal!!!). (Paladins holy damage can't be resisted).
HOW IT REDUCES THE DAMAGE????
Damage reduction percentage (DRP) = 100% * effective resistance rating (ERR) / ( K + effective resistance rating (ERR) )
K = 400 for most lvl80 mobs and pl characters (seems). Then, if you have not any Spell Penetration:
1. Gift of the Wild (75 to all) reduces your damage to DRP = 100%*75/(400 + 75) = 7500%/475 = 15.8% !!!
2. Totems, Auras (130 to specific resist type) DRP =100%*130/(400 + 130) = 13000%/530 = 24.5% !!!
RESISTANCES TRICKS
Well, we can stack Spell Penetration in next order: 75, 85, 100, 130, 135 from enchants and gems. (75 SPe with 3xStormy Majestic Zircon or 85 with 2xStormy Majestic Zircon and Cloak Enchant: +35 Spell Penetration ). UrbanJuggernaut posted, that 130 is the cap. But how useful it can be for ele shamans?. Shaman's offensive spell are NATURE (Lightning Bolt, Chain Light, Lightning Shield, Earth Shock, Thunderstorm), FIRE(Lava Burst, Flame Shock, Magma Totem, Searing Totem, Fire Elemental) and only ONE FROST(Frost Shock) kind.
Main question: Who have a good protection against NATURE and FIRE???
1. NATURE: Hunters with Aspect of the Wild (130) and, of course, other shaman's :) Nature Resistance Totem(130).
2. FIRE: Paladins Fire Resistance Aura(130) and other shaman's Totem of Fire Resistance(130). --> IDK exactly about Mages and Locks fire resistances.
3. FROST: Paladins Frost Resistance Aura(130), DK Frost Aura(100??) and shaman's Totem of Frost Resistance(130).
Conclusion: With 85 Spell Penetration only Hunters, Paladins and other Shamans can reduce about DRP = 100%*(130 - 85)/(400 + (130 - 85)) = 100%*45/(400 + 45) = 4500%/445 = 10% elemental ehamans offensive spells(non-Binary) in duels, for exaple!!! Although resilience is generally considered to be a more useful stat when choosing between the two. So, resistances will stack only a few players probably. In most battlegrounds and arenas nature resistance is rarely applied, as I have seen... With 85 SPe we can cover the most useful and common druids resistance buff Gift of the Wild (+75 to ALL resistances!).
Recomendations: In most Worldwide, Duels, Battlegrounds and half of Arena matches 85 SPe is enought for elemental shamans. 130 SPe can stack hi-end geared (Wrathful set) ele shamans to gain 90-95% hit for shock spells and Binary Spells (if no else to stack is needed). Who needs 130-135 SPe? Well, I think only Locks and Shadow Priests(especially). In most arenas, party or raids there is always a Shadow Resistance(130) auras on everybody. Their offensive spells are Shadow based for Locks and ALL for Disco Priests.
SHAMAN'S BINARY SPELLS
They are: Purge (the best spell in WoW :D which removes 2 buffs), Wind Shear(interrupt spells, but not all; makes mobs less likely to attack you), Hex(CC into a frog for 10 sec), Roots(passive: from talent tree after ET; CC all!!! hostiles in 10yrd range for 5 sec), Slow(passive: after Earthbind Totem is dropped; reduces the speed for all hostiles in 10 yrd range for 50%).
Semi-binary spells: all shock spells( after damage they doing next effects --> 50% slows a single target - Frost Shock, 10% haste reduced - Earth Shock, DoT - Flame Shock(rogues cant hide with this debuff, opponents tremble awaiting Lava Burst :D).
Binary spells are spells which can only have full effect (hit) or no effect (resist); partial resists are not possible. Normally, damage spells are only binary if they have an additional non-damage effect. Some examples are Death Coil and Mind Flay. Frostbolt is no longer a Binary Spell.
For binary spells, both spell penetration and spell hit rating can be used to overcome resistances. From official resource.
DoTs used to be binary spells, but this was changed.
Spell resistance was the second of two rolls to determine whether or not a spell was resisted. (Spell hit was the first roll.) The spell resistance roll would calculate in one of two different ways: one way for Binary Spells, another way for non-Binary spells.
Resistance reduced the chance for the binary spell to land by a certain percentage. Spell hit would not reduce this chance (hmmm). It was assumed that this percentage was exactly the damage reduction percentage given above
For Binary Spells is useful next formula:
Average Resistance (AvR) = (Target's Resistance / (Caster's Level * 5)) * 0.75;
- in this formula is not any Hit rating and SPe. Officially posted, that Hit not improves Binary Spell, but I have no evidience about how Spell Penetration improves Binary Spells...
Why is it called "average resistance"? For spells that have a non-damage effectÔÇösuch as slow, root, stun, purgeÔÇöyou'll either take the hit or avoid the hit altogether; these are examples of binary spells. The average resistance is the chance you'll totally avoid the hit. Adding the word "average" is a little redundant in this case.
However, when spells do only damage, it's not just a full hit or full miss situation. Pure damage spells can be resisted for 0%, 10%, 20%, 30%, etc. (in 10% increments up to 100%) of their regular damage. Your average resistance can still be anywhere betweeen 0% and 75%.
OVERALL CONCLUSION
For ele shamans below 6kGSPVP next stats are priority: Hit (5%) > Spell Penetration (85) > Haste > Spell Power > Crit > Stamina > Intellect.
Above 6kGSPVP: Hit(5%) > Spell Penetration(130 - 135) > Spell Power > Haste > Crit > Intellect > Stamina.
Spell Penetration is absolutely useless for PVE.
Elemental Shaman's PVE DPS, with less than 390 Hit (15%), suffers catastrophically.
P.S. Thanks for reading!
-
UrbanJuggernautGuestNice stuff man, but you forgot about Mages. Mages using Mage Armor (which they will be vsing you) have an additional 40 resist, on top of common buffs like Mark of the Wild, will be at 142 Spell Resistance. Since Spell Penetration cannot reduce Spell Resistance to 0, 135 is the most common amount (Cloak enchant + 4 Stormy Majestic Zircon). Some say its not worth it just to be capped against Mages, but you will face a LOT of them in Arena and getting a Wind Shear/Hex resisted can literally lose you the game. For more info on how Spell Penetration works, check this out.
-
Member
Something is undefined with Spell Penetration and Hit ratings for Binary Spells
Well, thanks. I just posted that ..."I am not certain about Mages and Locks resistances tricks at the moment"... and ..."It's good to stack 135 SPe for gear over 6kGS anyway"... in Overall section. On my realm most PVP characters are Unholy DKs, Retri Palas, Arms/Fury Warriors (with Shadowmourne from black-market), SPriests, Destro Locks and MM/BM(using pets bug) Hunters. I am running with 93 SPe. Moreover, palla's Hand of Freedom I can't purge :( !!??.
The information about Spell Penetration, Hit and Resistance's effect on Binary Spells are vaguely and shattered across overall the Internet. Looks like nobody know exactly how it works from case to case. I tested it a bit and found very interesting things, on my personal WoW server (similar to Molten):
[IMG] http://imageshack.com/a/img194/8208/zu1q.jpg [/IMG]
[IMG] http://imageshack.com/a/img513/2903/j33n.jpg [/IMG]
The Ice Barrier is the most resistible Mage buff. The most important thing is that I got resisted mage's Ice Barrier with my 120Hit and 136 SPe also. These resistances have a percent probability which not depends by Hit and SPe anyway, but are conducted by AvR formula more....
My character is overcapped "PVP Monstrous" here:
[IMG] http://imageshack.com/a/img20/3455/2r89.jpg [/IMG]
I should to admit that with 121Hit Binary spells are a bit effective.
I will post new thread about these thing, on Molten Forum, in more detailed format.
-
Member
and what about wars with SM where he charges,hamstring on u and use BS and u are dead. what tactic???
-
Member
Heal yourself through bladestorm?!You cant really die from bstorm unless you are really low on ressilience!!
-
Member
Shamans have mail armor (20k) which reduces a part of damage in trivial cases, but warriors with Shadowmourne, DBW and Halion armor penetration trinket can be a huge problem. True. The resilience is a bread and butter for any PVP shaman's gear in the specified case. It's required about 1300, better 1400 resilience due to the lack of defensive spells and weak CC abilities.
If a warrior is not a pro, then he will Intercept you with instant Bladestorm. In this case stay stunned for 3 sec to reduce taken damage by 60% due to 1400 resilience and Astral Shift. Otherwise drop Stoneclaw Totem, Magma Totem and begin to self heal. Skeleton Key will help a lot also (with this trinket active the taken damage can't be more than 20-25%HP after all). The Magma Totem will do the same damage, to target, as you will have after all. Against warriors try to use Healing Totem among specified school. After BS you can Thunderstorm with Earth Shock, because warrior will Intercept again after your Thunderstorm and while you are stunned he will do 10% slowed dmg. After this slow him by Frost Shock or Earthbind Totem and run in oposite direction of the warrior ALWAYS. The fact that a good PVP gamer learning how to move by mouse only, is their strong and weak moment ;). You will win seconds... Avoid any closed area!
Due to Hamstring is the reason why UrbanJuggernaut posted early: "Don't fu-king try to run from Bladestorm", especially if you got Hamstring...
In the end shamans vs warriors have 50%/50% chanche to win, without any exploit and bugs. Their fight is the most honored and balanced where not spells or gear have the primary value, but clever tactic. You must fight by brain mostly.
P.S. You forget about Spell Reflection spell ;)... and Thunderstorm can be reflected now... Thanks Molten for such AoE fix...
-
LexdohrGuest
Hi man. Thanks for the great guide. The link to the talents isnt working for me though. Any suggestions?
-
Member
The best elemental guide i've ever seen :cool:
thank you very much
-
Member
A
Actually i agree with you.If warr. have enough ressilience its 50/50 game...If not its in your favor...Also i have 1430 ressilience and 1470 with brewfest drink and warrs still hits hards.Anyway ele. isnt best duel spec in the game,but for arenas its in top 5 !!!!
-
kutija999Guest
Can someone upload picture of OP's talents pls? Original link for talents doesn't work anymore
-
Member
This is the cookie-cutter spec:
It's pretty straight-forward. You could switch Guardian Totems for 2 extra points in Thundering Strikes, but that's about it.
-
Member
The displayed spec can be valuable during dueling vs some casters only, when is important to "ground" more spells (due to 2 sec G-totem cooldown reduction). In the BG and Arenas addition 2% crit chance can be more valuable (to improve FS DoT mostly). The addition +20% to Stoneskin armor is completely useless vs casters and mostly useless vs well geared melees. As I posted above Warriors, Paladins and DK runs with premade Shadowmourne, which stacks their armor penetration over 85%. Hunters and Rogues stacks a lot of points to armor penetration also and some critical abilities. In general, this talent will not save you a lot against specified guys :).
... This means - the more armor you have, the more armor they will ignore.
-
UrbanJuggernautGuest
WOW! It has been over a year since I last played or checked out my guide. Glad to see so many find it useful :) I will try to fix the talents link eventually.
-
Member
Hit Dilemma
Hello guys. I'm having a dilemma currently about hit rating and paladins. Since I'm ally side all
my retri paladin opponents are Blood Elves (Battlegrounds mostly) along with the Divine Purpose
talent. That brings their spell avoidance at 90%, and please do correct me if I'm wrong.
4% Spell avoidance vs level 80 casters + 4% spell avoidance from Divine Purpose + 2% spell
avoidance from BE racial. Should the above be correct and stack, how much hit should
one have versus BE paladins? I've missed some Lava Bursts which happens to be crucial.
Can their racial be negated by Spell Pen? If not, should one go over 6% hit to counter
BE paladins?
Thanks in advance for your responses.
-
cferxGuest
A really Usefull guide :)
Thanks a lot, i hope you can fix the Talents tree soon :D
Good Luck !.
-
Banned
About gems:
Using
2x Mysterious Dreadstone(12sp/13pene) is in general better than using
Runed Cardinal Ruby(23sp) and
Stormy Majestic Zircon(25pene).
If u aim for 85 spell pene ull get 35 from cloak enchant so u need 50 more from gems.
U can use 2x Runed Cardinal Ruby and 2x Stormy Majestic Zircon and get 46sp and 50 spell pene.
U can use 4x Mysterious Dreadstone and get 48 sp and 52 spell pene.
The difference is super minor but if u are looking for the best of the best then Mysterious Dreadstone is the way to go.
Quote
