Cataclysm [Guide] Combat Rogue PvE

[Griefel]

It seems Rupture is affected by BG, and that makes it worth using - tested as we speak.

[RyuIsaCookie]

There we go. That's a SS with no buffs/food/flask/scrolls or w/e. You can see my stats and spell % of total dmg done. If anyone posts a SS with haste stacking doing more dps Ill admit I am wrong.

[Suube]

In the discussion of Mastery Vs. Haste, wouldn't that be a discussion of how much and by when you can get it?

Most lower geared rogues cannot meet that level of mastery since the itemization for it isn't there. Also wouldn't mastery have a soft-cap of sorts? Where you'll stop seeing any gains from it since even at a 40-50% proc chance you can have a string of main gauches occur but but be energy depleted due to the lack of haste?

Also in terms of rupture I've actually never been a fan, even on retail the effort and minimal dmg that it can provide is weaker then what a string of Eviscerates can bring. Unless I'm missing something about rupture, I do know it can be better with a well composed team, but here on Molten I feel that hardly happens.

Edit: Also did you forgo Expertise inplace of Mastery? Seeing as you only have a 12 in it, is there a molten bug that diminishes Expertise?

[RyuIsaCookie]

In the discussion of Mastery Vs. Haste, wouldn't that be a discussion of how much and by when you can get it?

Most lower geared rogues cannot meet that level of mastery since the itemization for it isn't there. Also wouldn't mastery have a soft-cap of sorts? Where you'll stop seeing any gains from it since even at a 40-50% proc chance you can have a string of main gauches occur but but be energy depleted due to the lack of haste?

Also in terms of rupture I've actually never been a fan, even on retail the effort and minimal dmg that it can provide is weaker then what a string of Eviscerates can bring. Unless I'm missing something about rupture, I do know it can be better with a well composed team, but here on Molten I feel that hardly happens.

Edit: Also did you forgo Expertise inplace of Mastery? Seeing as you only have a 12 in it, is there a molten bug that diminishes Expertise?

I never get energy starved, regeneration is sick even with low haste. Not to mention that during AR even now I get capped due to global cd. All the energy regenerating abilities make it so that you have to not hit anything to get energy depleted.

Rupture is useless even with bleeds. I tested again on dummy it does 10-12k where my avrg eviscerate does ALOT more. I dont think even with bleed buffs rupture is a match to eviscerate.

Currently even at 12 expertise I feel good enough and and even on Maloriak or Magmaw where you cant really stay behind all the time my rotation and overall dps doesnt suffer from not being capped.

[Justicerr]

In the discussion of Mastery Vs. Haste, wouldn't that be a discussion of how much and by when you can get it?

Most lower geared rogues cannot meet that level of mastery since the itemization for it isn't there. Also wouldn't mastery have a soft-cap of sorts? Where you'll stop seeing any gains from it since even at a 40-50% proc chance you can have a string of main gauches occur but but be energy depleted due to the lack of haste?

Also in terms of rupture I've actually never been a fan, even on retail the effort and minimal dmg that it can provide is weaker then what a string of Eviscerates can bring. Unless I'm missing something about rupture, I do know it can be better with a well composed team, but here on Molten I feel that hardly happens.

Edit: Also did you forgo Expertise inplace of Mastery? Seeing as you only have a 12 in it, is there a molten bug that diminishes Expertise?

Yes, there is a bug about expertise. The thing is, Parry doesn't exist in PvE. Bosses and mobs do not parry at all, only dodge. Which makes expertise only 50% valuable.

About the rupture part what Stellar said^

[Suube]

So with enchants and gems do you solely pursue Mastery even over flat AGI? I'm messing with my current gear for results and would love the insight.

[Griefel]

Yeah let's just say nobody cares about feelings and "i think"s, the math is clear, it is a dps increase with mangle up, either if u want to use it or not is your problem.

[RyuIsaCookie]

Yeah let's just say nobody cares about feelings and "i think"s, the math is clear, it is a dps increase with mangle up, either if u want to use it or not is your problem.

Ok keep your rupture up while i hit 45-50k eviscerates. Seems fair deal.

[Justicerr]

So with enchants and gems do you solely pursue Mastery even over flat AGI? I'm messing with my current gear for results and would love the insight.

I've thought about that, but I'd say no, agility is still your top stat by far and you should always gem/enchant agility. 40agi on red sockets, 20agi+20mastery on yellow, 20agi+20hit on blue, and ofc 54agi+3%crit dmg on meta.

[Suube]

So after some testing, reforging, and balancing I've come to agreement with Stellar and Soulseeker. Mastery on MoltenWoW indeed plays a huge role in our dps, making it more stable and higher then what you would expect. However I still feel a soft cap of 40-50% chance for main gauche would suffice and then would be surpassed by haste. Am I wrong in that thought?

[Justicerr]

So after some testing, reforging, and balancing I've come to agreement with Stellar and Soulseeker. Mastery on MoltenWoW indeed plays a huge role in our dps, making it more stable and higher then what you would expect. However I still feel a soft cap of 40-50% chance for main gauche would suffice and then would be surpassed by haste. Am I wrong in that thought?

Yes, I think you are wrong, because I'm not sure you understand what makes mastery so good for combat rogues. It is the fact that it can proc by itself when it shouldn't. I've seen me get 13 main gauche procs off of one attack.

So you're wrong by a mile, cause mastery gets better and better for you the more you have. Considering that, theoretically, if you have 50 mastery, which gives a 100% chance of a main gauche proc, you would see an endless chain of procs from every attack. Just theoretically, because you can't possibly stack that much mastery.

[Suube]

I'm only wrong in the ways of MoltenWow since I was unaware of that bug which it is clearly one. But in retail I'm sure there is a applicable softcap no?

[Seigfried]

So ~13 Expertise and ~8 Hit
N I C E

[dominitian]

I also tried to reforge in mastery and use it as a secondary stat after agility and what i have discovered is in fact mastery is better than haste and it gets even better the more mastery u have
for me which for now i just have 16,7 mastery, main gauche wasn`t the main dmg ability (it was sinister strike) but i have seen a dps increased since my 2nd stat is mastery

[Griefel]

Ok keep your rupture up while i hit 45-50k eviscerates. Seems fair deal.

Good luck with that, but you should stop telling people they should do what you're doing because you do it, since it doesn't have much weight in reality, and it certainly doesn't offer the best possible dps for a Combat Rogue. New ppl always scour these guides and offering bad info is the worst thing one could do.

[size="3"]If you SS another target without redirecting to it, the bug fixes itself.

There is a small error here, it doesn't always work this way(I have only noticed it like 1-2 times) the rest of the time I go the bug up no matter what I do until I log off.