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A depression-like response (anhedonia etc) to bereavement (which isn't my word) generally isn't considered depression because it's a proportional response. As you said yourself, depression can be considered a disproportionately negative reaction to unpleasant events; however, the exact cause(s) of depression are not fully understood (there appear to be biological and hereditary components), and it is conceivable that someone would become depressed without being triggered by anything in particular. There isn't a concise explanation of the causes of depression agreed upon in the psych community, so I don't think it's really worth debating here at all.
I agree that the "triggers" for depression, or the aspects of a depressed person's life that they feel are particularly problematic (disregarding the initial cause of their depression) do not have to make sense, either to the outside observer or the depressed person themselves. I think we have a similar understanding of depression in this respect. My conclusion from that, though, is that people who are depressed are making inaccurate judgements, and therefore cannot determine whether or not their life is worth living (and should be prevented from committing suicide), in much the same way that a drunk person cannot determine whether or not they should be, I don't know, driving, or something similar. I know that the analogy isn't perfect in many respects, but I think it does illustrate the idea that depressed people are unreliable judges. I think Oregon's (relatively new) law on assisted suicide handle this matter very well. I don't expect you to be familiar with it, of course, but the general idea is that someone can get a prescription for a medication to kill themselves if multiple physicians have confirmed that they will die within 6 months (from some other illness, obviously), and they have had a psych evaluation to ensure they have no mental disorder impairing their judgement. The idea is that there are certainly cases in which suicide may be a legitimate choice, but having a mental disorder immediately excludes a person from making that choice.
In regards to a severely depressed person (since we were originally talking about suicide, after all) having a "defective" mind, I would absolutely say that they do. I would say that anyone with a mental illness is somewhat defective. At that point (where the psychological abnormality inhibits one's daily life, a general criteria for something to be considered a disorder), I would say that the brain is failing to preform its duty and is defective in the same way someone who has to be on dialysis has defective kidneys. Whether it's "pure" or not is completely irrelevant to me. Furthermore, I abhor the idea that a depressed person is operating the way they should or the way they were "born" to. After all, brain development is nowhere near completion at birth and environment factors absolutely influence its continued development, but more importantly, that perspective suggests that depression may not be treatable, and that depressed people should accept that that is the way they function, and that is how their life will continue to be (i.e. completely miserable). I am sure you don't mean to suggest that people suffering from depression shouldn't seek treatment, but that's where your idea of depression being a normal state of functioning for some people leads.
None of us mods have been expressing opinions that would be censored if given by regular users. If you think our arguing violates the rules we enforce, you have a very poor understanding of the forum rules.
**** my depression and ever mentioning suicide... If I knew you'd guys make a 10 page argument about it and evolve it into a Member - Moderator relationship argument, I'd just kill myself before even asking anything, lol...
Clear evidence you were just seeking attention
Nah, I was actually really depressed. But I'm fine now.
He just said he didn't want so much attention. Your reading comprehension is...impressive
Not surprising.
I wasn't talking about this argument in this thread.
While for the most part this is true, there are multitudes of people here that will try anything to argue with him, desperation does crazy things.
Coming soon: The multilingual millionaire genius neuroscientist shares his views on other people's jobs and gives his annual performance review.
Biting in 1, 2, 3...
This is so far gone that it can't even be considered irony anymore.
I'm seriously considering (be careful here, sensitive topic lol) going into a deep depression knowing that you haven't done that already.
Look at this post, from the same guy who writes like a 4 years old. I'm really rustled by this. Not sure if anyone else is, but I'm really rustled that one time he writes so well and another he writes like a ******. Perhaps I am the mentally deranged one.
Don't worry buddy, we'll find a cure for your depression. After all, it's good we're not all freaks who would enjoy in another persons death. :)
I look forward to the counseling.
Life and death.
I didn't see any http link to one of your published articles? Where are they?
I mean, I've personally met all the top neuroscientists of the world last night for dinner, and they never heard about you.
I even called Santa to see if you were being a bad boy and he just chuckled. Puzzling, I know.
In a last attempt I had a seance to contact the geniuses Death has already claimed, but alas - my efforts were foiled again.
If you weren't such a brilliant mind, Mister Gagha Wayne Stark, I'd assume you were just typing bull****, since this is the internet, but why would you do such a thing? I mean, I apparently am trying to use your weapons-grade stupidity against you without even noticing. Your genius must be rubbing off on me.
But before retiring back to your delusional world, please share your published articles with us, lowly human beings from the real world.
I'm the same as always.
PS: Euphie, I might go into a longer reply when I'm out of work and back at home. But I guess the main point is we have different opinions at the root of this - you considering it a "defect", I'm considering it just the way they are - and that's really not a point of view that I see changing on either of us. If we can leave that bit aside we could argue more, but I think that pretty much means any point of view developing from there on this subject can't be dissociated from that base.
Go read the 10 page essay Obnoxious and the rest wrote, you won't need any counseling for the rest of your life after that...