Share something pointless about your life!

[Kelzio]

Spoiler: Show

[Euphemism]

I didn't make myself clear. I'm not dismissing what the actual book says, simply disputing your apparent claim that the book has a checklist of what constitutes as a valid reason for triggering a depression. I very much doubt it goes like "losing one pet: mild sadness, losing two pets: strong sadness, losing four to five pets: depression available." In a way you could say depression is an extremely disproportional reaction to something. Sure, there are cases where it's considered "spontaneous" but I do wonder if those are in fact completely out of the blue for no reason whatsoever or simply seen like that because of such a tiny and trivial trigger that the link between cause and effect just isn't made. As you said, depression isn't a rational reaction, and as such it's not limited by what you consider "valid" for causing it. People handle your "bereavement" in different ways, just like they get affected by different things. What will make some people cry will get just a shrug from others. When you put that together with the disproportionate reaction aspect I see on depression, you just can't dismiss losing a job or a break up as possible triggers, because the trigger doesn't has to make sense to you. I mean, even for the depressive person it often doesn't makes sense after the episode is over.

But back to the initial thing, I do consider being a clinically depressive person and being drunk different things. As I said, I see the first as "pure," because it's simply the person's brain working the way it is. I don't see it as "defective," just as working in a non-standard way, but still pure regarding what it is. You're born like that, while you aren't born a drunk (I'm not going to get into cases of mothers who take drugs and the child is born already addicted). If you go picking and choosing what aspect to analyze and compare between depression and drunkenness you might as well say both are the same because on both you are liable to do stupid stuff, but the point of view I used is that on one your brain is under the influence of external substances that cause that state, while on the other your brain is just being itself, working with it's peculiar chemistry.

A depression-like response (anhedonia etc) to bereavement (which isn't my word) generally isn't considered depression because it's a proportional response. As you said yourself, depression can be considered a disproportionately negative reaction to unpleasant events; however, the exact cause(s) of depression are not fully understood (there appear to be biological and hereditary components), and it is conceivable that someone would become depressed without being triggered by anything in particular. There isn't a concise explanation of the causes of depression agreed upon in the psych community, so I don't think it's really worth debating here at all.

I agree that the "triggers" for depression, or the aspects of a depressed person's life that they feel are particularly problematic (disregarding the initial cause of their depression) do not have to make sense, either to the outside observer or the depressed person themselves. I think we have a similar understanding of depression in this respect. My conclusion from that, though, is that people who are depressed are making inaccurate judgements, and therefore cannot determine whether or not their life is worth living (and should be prevented from committing suicide), in much the same way that a drunk person cannot determine whether or not they should be, I don't know, driving, or something similar. I know that the analogy isn't perfect in many respects, but I think it does illustrate the idea that depressed people are unreliable judges. I think Oregon's (relatively new) law on assisted suicide handle this matter very well. I don't expect you to be familiar with it, of course, but the general idea is that someone can get a prescription for a medication to kill themselves if multiple physicians have confirmed that they will die within 6 months (from some other illness, obviously), and they have had a psych evaluation to ensure they have no mental disorder impairing their judgement. The idea is that there are certainly cases in which suicide may be a legitimate choice, but having a mental disorder immediately excludes a person from making that choice.

In regards to a severely depressed person (since we were originally talking about suicide, after all) having a "defective" mind, I would absolutely say that they do. I would say that anyone with a mental illness is somewhat defective. At that point (where the psychological abnormality inhibits one's daily life, a general criteria for something to be considered a disorder), I would say that the brain is failing to preform its duty and is defective in the same way someone who has to be on dialysis has defective kidneys. Whether it's "pure" or not is completely irrelevant to me. Furthermore, I abhor the idea that a depressed person is operating the way they should or the way they were "born" to. After all, brain development is nowhere near completion at birth and environment factors absolutely influence its continued development, but more importantly, that perspective suggests that depression may not be treatable, and that depressed people should accept that that is the way they function, and that is how their life will continue to be (i.e. completely miserable). I am sure you don't mean to suggest that people suffering from depression shouldn't seek treatment, but that's where your idea of depression being a normal state of functioning for some people leads.

It's always good to see that they are enjoying a right that the community they argue with isn't allowed to have.

None of us mods have been expressing opinions that would be censored if given by regular users. If you think our arguing violates the rules we enforce, you have a very poor understanding of the forum rules.

[Kelzio]

**** my depression and ever mentioning suicide... If I knew you'd guys make a 10 page argument about it and evolve it into a Member - Moderator relationship argument, I'd just kill myself before even asking anything, lol...

[Terafema]

**** my depression and ever mentioning suicide... If I knew you'd guys make a 10 page argument about it and evolve it into a Member - Moderator relationship argument, I'd just kill myself before even asking anything, lol...

Clear evidence you were just seeking attention

[Kelzio]

Clear evidence you were just seeking attention

Nah, I was actually really depressed. But I'm fine now.

[Euphemism]

Clear evidence you were just seeking attention

He just said he didn't want so much attention. Your reading comprehension is...impressive

[Shiina]

Clear evidence you were just seeking attention

Not surprising.

[Ricks2]

None of us mods have been expressing opinions that would be censored if given by regular users. If you think our arguing violates the rules we enforce, you have a very poor understanding of the forum rules.

I wasn't talking about this argument in this thread.

[unbanned]

We all know people have beef with obnoxious for good reasons, some people just can't get over it.

While for the most part this is true, there are multitudes of people here that will try anything to argue with him, desperation does crazy things.

I don't give a damn about what he may think about my job.
Just wanted to end it my way and I'm expecting a ban.

Coming soon: The multilingual millionaire genius neuroscientist shares his views on other people's jobs and gives his annual performance review.

You're starting to annoy me. Can you stfu for half a second and get up from your chair and go see how the sun looks like? Prick.

Biting in 1, 2, 3...

Don't mind Pysiina, he's just being his usual know-it-all thread spam whore.

This is so far gone that it can't even be considered irony anymore.

**** my depression and ever mentioning suicide... If I knew you'd guys make a 10 page argument about it and evolve it into a Member - Moderator relationship argument, I'd just kill myself before even asking anything, lol...

I'm seriously considering (be careful here, sensitive topic lol) going into a deep depression knowing that you haven't done that already.

[PROJECTyuma]

Spoiler: Show

So, why didn’t you actually bring it on ? It is an easy thing to repeat yourself in a bunch of meaningless words pulled at every post which actually only show how little you know about neuroscience, but it is another one when it comes to « prove » your sayings.

As I already said, people are hardly able to believe what I tell them about human brain for modern discoveries haven’t emerged yet against the old ideas. They still don’t know that neuroscience is such a moving discipline one can only retain the fewest of it if they don’t study it seriously, and this still hardly makes them able to understand how human brain works as scientists still haven’t discovered everything about it. Neuroscience truly began improving less than two centuries ago and many old theories are being totally erased, yet it had to wait for modern technology to really develop. You’re unaware of so many many things…

I’ve been reading more books and articles about neuroscience than you’ll ever read in your lifetime, for it is simply my metier. I’ve gotten access to their comments, criticals, evaluations and I realize I knew nothing each time I assist to a congress. Unlike you, kindergarten is far behind me since long…

Do you really think you can use my own weapons against me ? Don’t make me laugh…
The world is such an unbelievable place, and I can get to meet with all sorts of persons everyday.

Do you really think having read one or two lines on wikipedia will make you able to « argument » as you dare say, while it is against modern researches you’re actually going ? You wouldn’t be able to understand a thing if you were presented a real essay, so don’t play around with these matters please, you may fool everybody here as many prefer believing you, but you won’t fool me, unfortunately for you, because you’re messing with the wrong person.

You can get pissed or feel self conscious as hard as you want, insult for long as you want, use Kemii as an excuse and make me say what I didn’t as many times as you want, just pull every trick you can think about for all I care, the reality will remain exactly as science states, and the gap between my knowledge in this discipline and yours will stay as huge as the earth is beneath the sky, because you’ve never just studied it.

Let me tell you one last thing before retiring from this debate once and for all, because discussing with people like you is such an annoyance beyond all belief : Only a fool challenges a « multilingual millionaire genius neuroscientist » in neuroscience…



I already got the chance to meet with a lot of doctors in various fields of study. Believe me, you wouldn’t dare compare him to any of them, though he seems to be a very smart guy. Perhaps it is better if he keeps his job as forum moderator since he enjoys that.

Look at this post, from the same guy who writes like a 4 years old. I'm really rustled by this. Not sure if anyone else is, but I'm really rustled that one time he writes so well and another he writes like a ******. Perhaps I am the mentally deranged one.

[Kelzio]

I'm seriously considering (be careful here, sensitive topic lol) going into a deep depression knowing that you haven't done that already.

Don't worry buddy, we'll find a cure for your depression. After all, it's good we're not all freaks who would enjoy in another persons death. :)

[Paseqt]

o ****, what did I just walk in on?

[unbanned]

Don't worry buddy, we'll find a cure for your depression. After all, it's good we're not all freaks who would enjoy in another persons death. :)

I look forward to the counseling.

o ****, what did I just walk in on?

Life and death.

[Obnoxious]

<Long *** rambling that avoids a simple request>

I didn't see any http link to one of your published articles? Where are they?
I mean, I've personally met all the top neuroscientists of the world last night for dinner, and they never heard about you.
I even called Santa to see if you were being a bad boy and he just chuckled. Puzzling, I know.
In a last attempt I had a seance to contact the geniuses Death has already claimed, but alas - my efforts were foiled again.

If you weren't such a brilliant mind, Mister Gagha Wayne Stark, I'd assume you were just typing bull****, since this is the internet, but why would you do such a thing? I mean, I apparently am trying to use your weapons-grade stupidity against you without even noticing. Your genius must be rubbing off on me.

But before retiring back to your delusional world, please share your published articles with us, lowly human beings from the real world.

I haven't heard that one in a while, are we all slowly going back to old habbits?

I'm the same as always.

PS: Euphie, I might go into a longer reply when I'm out of work and back at home. But I guess the main point is we have different opinions at the root of this - you considering it a "defect", I'm considering it just the way they are - and that's really not a point of view that I see changing on either of us. If we can leave that bit aside we could argue more, but I think that pretty much means any point of view developing from there on this subject can't be dissociated from that base.

[Kelzio]

I look forward to the counseling.

Go read the 10 page essay Obnoxious and the rest wrote, you won't need any counseling for the rest of your life after that...