1. @Fieryfrostyflow :
    The range is only a matter of gameplay, personnally i play all my fights alone, this is a thing i can offer me because i'm mage (except Marrow where i'm pack all the fight, sindy where i play nearly at melee and LK phase 1 and 2). On lady I play at 40-41 in phase 1 and I have access to all adds no matter their are at right or left, on phase 2 I moove myself asap at 35-41. On DBS I play at 40 (I left 1 meter security for the case where the boss moove a bit) I don't moove at all beast will be dead before join me. On festergut same as DBS I play at 40m (I just check that I have the totem and Concentration aura), i don't moove at all (execpt like one time in 2 mounth when i have the gas spore and even at this time i have choose a spot not so far to the joining point (this is an advantage to have such a huge range i can easely stand behind the last range dps), I ice block the pungent blight. On rotface I play at key points for the puddles at 35-41 meter to prevent moovement from the MT. On PP I have a spot at 40-41 from the desk and 40-41 from the green ooze spawn, i play there most of my fight, as a mage engineer i'm absolutly not scared by the red ooze spawn and i have not a lot of moove to do even if i kitt him, the only point against me, i don't go packing with other raiders on green except when i judge they are not enough on the target, which really never happen in my guild, and if i m target i can blink to get close from the pack. On BPC I play at 35-40 from Taldaram and Valanar (we have wars and ferals MT so i m not worried from the valanar bump) and like 25-30 from keleseth this placement is mostly du to the fact at this exact location in my grun we don't have much ppl so i have less risk to get bump by somebody who made a wrong moove. On BQL I play at 40-41 and only moove to links and to go get the bit (if the raid need it or if i want to do a huge score) I iceblock the shadow flammes, and play behind the center so only need one GCD to join the mass dispel when BQL take a flight. On Sindy I play at melee almostime 5-10, it get me less flight time when she grab me and more dps time to hit her when she flight down after transitions. On LK I start my phase 1 at melee to Saper charge, then i play all the phase between 20-35 meter depending on the distance from the OT, i play this phase not in the pack of range, in order to avoid a maximum of traps, if i have the plague i wait a gcd engineer boots and go on MT then blink to go back (or soft moove with gcd), sometime i do the inverse, depending the actual distance of the OT, if the blink is enough to join him i blink first. On transitions i play at 40.5 from the boss and 20-30 from enraged spirits. Phase 2 I play in the pack (finnally it is the only time in icc i m packed =D ) in order to have proper valkyrs ways. Phase 3 : I play at the center of the platform and LK is almostime at the border so i maintain a 30-41 range all the time.

    So I m selfless, and i'm not in the fact i don't disturb any of my mates when abilities comes on me and the fact i have a really fast capacity of moovement with all my gcd blink and boots so i can join the pack to save a green ooze target or whatever, faster then any other player in the raid.

    To my mind a raid has to be spread as much as possible melee include to be to much dps efficient as possible, but i totally got the fact some players need to be lead and it's ok for me so I don't care if other players play packed, but i don't.

    And about breaking my cycle for moove, i think you have got my way to play, i don't break my cycle, never, i only moove and gcd, i have even made the choice of magic absorbtion in my template in order to be able handle more time in a puddle when i wait for a GCD. I'm litterraly all the time on casting, in a LK who have a 15min duration i put approximatly 200 fireballs on the boss, (i can give you a record i have made some mounths ago).


    Tiny.
    Edited: February 18, 2017

  2. About you guys didn't mention fire blast to proc HS, why? It can save extra downtime using after casting FFB/FIreball right? I want further explaination about this.

  3. About you guys didn't mention fire blast to proc HS, why? It can save extra downtime using after casting FFB/FIreball right? I want further explaination about this.
    It's because fireblast do not enough damages to be interessting in order to HS proc, cast a Fireball is more powerfull/usefull, the only utility of Fireblast is to moove without doing anything, but as TTW mage (or FFB) we have so much gcd during which ones we can moove that using fireblast almost never happen. The only one time I have to use my fireblast on all wotlk end content bosses is on halion during a twilight cutter or a meteor strike, and even at this time it's always because i have not enough anticipate.

    Tiny.

  4. Hi,

    As of April 2017, which Mage spec currently does the highest dps given today's warmane server and having BIS gear? I currently am a FFB but I've heard that Arcane or TTW is better.

    Thank You

  5. arcane best burst, ttw = 3 or 6% more crit, ffb is good but full rng :/

    go for ttw if you have 14% hit and 50%+ crit self buffed

  6. You can honestly have great success with both specs. TTW may perform better based on pure numbers. However, the shorter the fight is, the better Arcane will perform compared to TTW. Truth of the matter is, in the LOD-clearing guilds at the moment, every fight in ICC other than PP and LK are so short that Arcane will indeed outperform TTW, even on Sindragosa due to Incanter's Absorption and the natural phasing of the fight despite its length.

    Have both specs and play whichever you enjoy the most.

  7. the actual issue of arcane is it complete and utter lack of relevant cleave tho, thats why it sucks at lod

  8. So i guess the part that you have to move a lot its ok for Arcane.
    Everything that Arcane can do TTW can do it better, just fights has to be over 1 and half minute longer.
    Both End game bosses in this patch depend on aoe dps - Halion and The Lich King, where Arc falls behind faster than they make fast and furious movies.
    Even on fast clearing ICC guilds i saw a lot more 21k + keeping mages on bosses when the fight is over, that i saw arcane ones, but then again they may be bad not as good as you guys.

  9. You can honestly have great success with both specs. TTW may perform better based on pure numbers. However, the shorter the fight is, the better Arcane will perform compared to TTW. Truth of the matter is, in the LOD-clearing guilds at the moment, every fight in ICC other than PP and LK are so short that Arcane will indeed outperform TTW, even on Sindragosa due to Incanter's Absorption and the natural phasing of the fight despite its length.

    Have both specs and play whichever you enjoy the most.
    As a mage, as a player in general, you can't rely on some meters from 2010 or what you saw in a raid, whoever it is that you saw playing. As a good player you should know how to play both specs well enough and use them when necessary. It's not just the bosses which might make you change your spec, it's the raid composition, their ability to play and so on... For example if you join a pleb ICC 10 normal and get to Saurfang you might want to switch to Arcane and spec Slow, on the other hand if the group is good enough you can easily go Fire there and still do enough damage to the beasts and the boss. Another example is Rotface. The usual tactic used for Rotface is stacking under him, you would want to remove 2 points from Flame Throwing (range talent) and put them into Student of the Mind (spirit talent). Generally you should have 2 specs, Fire TTW with Flame Throwing and Arcane with Magic Attunement, but you have to be able to respec at any time in order to minmax.
    Edit : If you have Dual Talent Specialization you can also keep 1 spec, for example Fire TTW with Flame Throwing, and keep the other spec unspecced, meaning that you can spec it right in front of the boss.
    Edited: April 19, 2017

  10. Thanks for the info. I've always ran both specs, and swap based on the fight and the raid group.

    @ceo, I obviously check logs of all the guilds that log, and I consistently see TTW mages pull numbers slightly to greatly below what I and a few others I've seen have managed to do with Arcane, when comparing the logged fights of similar length. Unless the arcane is doing something wrong (spam 4 blast->missiles, blow all cooldowns at the start), theres little chance for TTW to catch up to Arcane that quickly. As for myself personally, I out-dps my TTW spec as Arcane on all fights in a typical end-game guild raid group other than PP, LK, and Halion, where I play TTW. Perhaps there is a skill difference, but I doubt it.

  11. Thanks for the info. I've always ran both specs, and swap based on the fight and the raid group.

    @ceo, I obviously check logs of all the guilds that log, and I consistently see TTW mages pull numbers slightly to greatly below what I and a few others I've seen have managed to do with Arcane, when comparing the logged fights of similar length. Unless the arcane is doing something wrong (spam 4 blast->missiles, blow all cooldowns at the start), theres little chance for TTW to catch up to Arcane that quickly. As for myself personally, I out-dps my TTW spec as Arcane on all fights in a typical end-game guild raid group other than PP, LK, and Halion, where I play TTW. Perhaps there is a skill difference, but I doubt it.
    In which guild/raid group you raid, can you give us some numbers (not screen, i'll trust you on words), per example your dps on PP on a good encounter, your dps before FM on Lod.

    Because I'm playing mage since a while, probabily like almost all ppl who speak regulary on this section of the forum. And I've meet really good arcanes mages, amazing burst etc, but i have never seen once above me at the end of an encounter who is more then 3 minutes long. I don't play Arcan personnally i'm good with the theory but i don't feel the gameplay.

  12. Hello,

    I play mage on Lordaeron in one of the top 4 guilds, and we are currently progressing ICC hc.

    Now keep in mind that on Lord fights are buffed, and we are far from bis gear (got 4P Yesterday and I'm still below 6k gs). We also don't have 3°% buff ofc. In my guild we are progressing with two TTW mages (Neryx and Predicte), and one arcane mage (me, Jinkho).

    Fire is better on Rotface (gotta move a lot), and arcane on Saurfang (focus add, dodging marks with invis instant). All other bosses are pretty much tied so far. I don't like your idea of swapping spec all the time, because you gotta gem haste for arcane and crit for fire, only the two bosses that I talked about are worth a swap in my opinion. Unless you have all the gear in the world (which may be the case in Icecrown but not in Lord), you cannot play both spec at 100%.

    As far as Lich King is concerned I could top dps on nm 25m if you don't take ghouls and shamblings into account, so arcane isn't bad on this boss at all. I also did progress on Bane (lich king 10m hc), where fire and arcane mage are pretty close from each other dps wise.

    We need to go further into progress to give more statistics, but my opinion so far is TTW is always good, and arcane is as good (and better on some bosses) if you have mana tide, PI and/or innervate. So one arcane per raid is a good idea because of the burst and fast switching it provides (slime on PP, mages/supressors on Vael, isolated Val'Kyr in LK, adds on DBS...).

  13. In which guild/raid group you raid, can you give us some numbers (not screen, i'll trust you on words), per example your dps on PP on a good encounter, your dps before FM on Lod.

    Because I'm playing mage since a while, probabily like almost all ppl who speak regulary on this section of the forum. And I've meet really good arcanes mages, amazing burst etc, but i have never seen once above me at the end of an encounter who is more then 3 minutes long. I don't play Arcan personnally i'm good with the theory but i don't feel the gameplay.
    So you havent seen good arcane mage. kek

  14. In which guild/raid group you raid
    Tinyball its Shaos, we raid together. my best Professor DPS was 18.5k, and I've never played Arcane at lod, its 100% worse than TTW there. My most recent raid wasn't my best, but I did alright-ish in it: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...e/?s=243&e=347

  15. Tinyball its Shaos, we raid together. my best Professor DPS was 18.5k, and I've never played Arcane at lod, its 100% worse than TTW there. My most recent raid wasn't my best, but I did alright-ish in it: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...e/?s=243&e=347
    Hi Shaos =P, ok based on the raid you give me, your DPS on Marrow and DBS was really good,
    You did Marrow without PI and had 22k6 dps it's better then a TTWfire can reach without an amazing luck and PI (my Pov).
    Your DBS is fine but with a PI a TTW fire can reach it, maybe do better, but i think i didn't personnally.
    But i really thing this is about the fact Marrow is lasted 1:44 min, and DBS 2:18 min.

    To my mind a TTW who stay properly focus, reach 20k on each ICC encounter except VDW Gunship and Sindragosa, on PP it's hard to reach but not impossible.

    To explain my PoV (assuming the player stay properly concentrate)(+assuming concentring you assault on the principal target maximize you dps on it):

    - Marrow : one target in TTW 20k-21k is easy to reach with good healers and proper moove (assuming don't blink on Storm and only use GCD to go away). Reaching 22k as you did in arcane suppose assuming have a really good timing on LB and mates properly packed + using somes tricks like flamecaps, Saornites/Saper charges. So to my mind Arcane must be definitly stronger.
    - Lady : as TTW, one target and a switch, switching on this encounter don't influence that much on the TTW dps he just gain some Pyro DOT but that don't represent a lot, except if he play engineer properly then it influence but Arcane can almost do the same. But where the TTW will really gain is on the fact he have Flame throwing, and properly place at the beginning of the fight he will not have to moove at all during the fight (may be 2-3 GCD during the Phase 2, but he can do it smoothly without loosing any DPS). 20k is reable quite easly in theses conditions (if he do not overaggro, hahaha, remaining our raids =P).
    - Gunship : ...
    - DBS : as TTW, 20k is easy to reach, 22k harder, i haven't seen better without PI. To my mind Arcane is stronger here, due to the fact LB, even properly timed don't do enough damages on beast, and the fight is too short for the TTW be able to catch up the Arcane. (I don't count Mages tricks by rogues etc, [hi Paper !])
    - Festergut : as TTW 21k is a good amount of dps, 22k reachable, 23k Hard.. on this boss mages seems to hit harder idk why... to my mind this boss is the 3rd one there Arcane can be better, but he can easely be distrub by random mooving dummies, then TTW have no issues on this side, stay far away at range of Totems and it's easy game, technically the best TTW between the other in the raid is the one on timed best way is Ice Block and is the luckier.
    - Rotface : as TTW 20k is a good amount 21k reachable, 22k idk. Whatever the mobility gived by GCD made the TTW largely win against Arcane.
    - Putricide : Not much TTW play this one properly, the placement at the beginning of the raid is fundamental, properly placed you can don't moove more then in a range of 10 feets the whole fight, avoid goo in one GCD, reduce the chance of having one on you by begin alone on your 6 feets range spot. You can also easely avoid being bump by green ooze if you have a good raid placement. Finnally, do not panic during transitions and moove for nothing, if you stay focus especially on the 2d transition here a TTW fire mage will made a real difference. A good dps on PP is 18k5-19k5 on PP, but as i said before 20k+ can be reach i'm hoping be able to reach 21k one of theses days, without doing any mistakes and properly use my saro bombs + saper charge (3 targets hitting with the saper charge if it crit it can be insane). To my mind as Arcane on this boss TTW cannot be beat, I saw Paper do amazing numbers as Arcane once but still. And it requiert a particulary short fight !
    - Council : as TTW 22k is easy to reach with a good placement at beginning and a minimum of focus, a good player can reach 24k maybe more, the trick is in the fact you can constantly maintain 2 living bombs up even when you are targeting Keleseth, that made you Pyro proc as hell if you manage it well (i mean have 6 sec between each explosion) + the fact they tic on 2 targets at the explosion ! To my mind Arcane cannot hit harder.
    - BQL : To much based on who is the first bit, to my mind this fight isn't relevant, without bit during the whole fight a fire mage can maintain 20k-21k idk if Arcan can do the same, assuming the longliness of the fight i think not.
    - VDW :...
    - Sindragosa : This fight is too much based on unchained magic procs, to my mind the skill of the player completely made the difference, and i cannot prononce about the Magic absorber Arcane spec, but to my mind the 2 sec casting of the Fireball give an advantage to TTW mages against Unchained magic, even if both spec can almost ever manage the debuff during the whole phase 1.
    - LK : As TTW your living bombs put you above an Arcane mage, and the fact you DPS LK during the transition made you easely fill the gap the arcane put between you to in the Phase 1 in terms of damages on LK. A good dps there as TTW is 18k5-20k (depending on too much mechanics) but in term of Damages on LK 7Millions is for me a minimum in a good raid group, and 9Millions can be reach by particulary good players. Arcane is clearly out perform here assuming the Aoe TTW deals and the fact a good TTW haven't to evocate hisself before the Frostmourne phase, thing an Arcane cannot do without slow down is dps or using a Mana Injector instead of his Wild Magic potion, and even then.


    - Halion : As I said i'm not enough comfortable with this boss to judge.


    Tiny.

    PS : You saw me in raid, you know the numbers I advence are likelihood.
    Edited: April 20, 2017 Reason: Orthography

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