1. [Guide] Frost PvP

    Hello, I'm Gresan of Neltharion | Jyx of Frostwolf . Highest ratings: 2.5k in 2v2 and 2.4k in 3v3.
    Or on Retail as Kemii of Tarren Mill EU | Kemii of Ravencrest EU .

    So there has been a lot about Unholy. Lets get Frost sorted out. This isn't finished, but from my experience on Warsong/Sarg with the new patch I put this together to help those struggling with the changes.

    Please feel free to tell me I'm wrong, add anything you think I missed too.

    OK so 4.3 brought a lot of changed to Frost, most of them are a nerf and we gotta live with them. It's hard to be frost now, those of you who relied on death strike spamming, roll blood, you wont cope with it.

    No more obliterate. Take that **** off you bars.

    First up are the patch notes. You will find all the changes that happened between 4.0.6 to 4.3.4 below.
    Spoiler: Show
    General
    • [Raise Ally] has been redesigned to be a battle resurrection, analogous to [Rebirth]. It is instant cast, but costs 50 Runic Power to use, and has a 10-minute cooldown. It shares the same global battle resurrection cap with Rebirth and Soulstone.
    • [Obliterate] base damage has been reduced to 150% weapon damage, down from 160%.
    • [Death Strike] now heals the death knight whether or not the attack misses, or is dodged/parried. As a result of this change, Death Strike no longer refunds its rune cost if it fails to hit the target, as the death knight will still receive the healing effect.
    • [Blood Presence] now provides an armor bonus of 55%, up from 30%.

    Frost
    • [Blood of the North] (passive) now permanently converts both Blood Runes into Death Runes. There is no longer any proc interaction with [Blood Strike] required to activate Death Runes.
    • [Frost Strike] now deals 130% of weapon damage, up from 110%.
    • [Howling Blast] damage has been increased by 20%. To compensate, the area-of-effect splash now does 50% of the single-target damage, down from 60%. The net result of this change leaves the area-of-effect damage roughly the same as 4.0.6 numbers. In addition, Howling Blast now has a facing requirement.
    • [Hungering Cold] now has a 1.5-second cast time.
    • [Might of the Frozen Wastes] now increases two-handed weapon damage by 3/7/10%, down from 4/8/12%.

    Blood Talents
    • [Blade Barrier] has been redesigned. It now passively reduces damage taken.


    Unholy Talents
    • [Desecration] no longer triggers when an applicable strike hits a snare-immune target. This is primarily to avoid unnecessary spell effect clutter during boss encounters.

    Glyphs
    • [Glyph of Raise Ally] is now [Glyph of Death Gate], and makes [Death Gate] cast 60% faster.
    • [Glyph of Dark Succor] has been redesigned. Rather than placing a 15% maximum health floor on [Death Strike] healing while in Frost or [Unholy Presence], it causes the next Death Strike within 15 seconds after killing a foe that yields experience or [Honor Points] to heal for at least 20% of the death knight's maximum health (still requires Frost or Unholy Presence).

    Fixes
    • [Rune Strike] and [Festering Strike] now correctly have their damage increased by [Might of the Frozen Wastes].
    • The talent [Killing Machine] can now properly be triggered from off-hand attacks as well as main-hand attacks.




    This is for my 2h "Necromaster" spec, healers in elwynn are terrified of me :(

    Spec:
    Can be found here


    Note the 1 in Obliterate is only to allow you to fill the required 31 points in frost to open the other trees, it is of no use at all.



    Glyphs:

    *Removed until able to log on and get new image*


    Prime:

    Howling Blast
    Frost Strike
    Death Coil


    Major:

    AMS
    Strangulate
    Hungering Cold


    Minor:

    Blood Tap
    Horn of Winter
    Resilient Grip

    So your glyphs are pretty simple, removing Obliterate, for obvious reasons and replacing it Death Coil for the extra healing from Lichborne to make up for the lack healing from Death Strike.
    We are still keeping the Hungering Cold Glyph as 40 Ruinc is just too valueable to lose on the CC when we are using Frost Strike as our main offensive skill.
    AMS is more useful than Dark Succor in arenas, as your most likely with a healer, take AMS for the extra duration, much more helpful in an arena situation.
    Death Strike (Dark Succor) has changed to a Victory Rush style skill. Only on the killing blow do we get our epic 20%+ heal. Which means that yes we are lacking the suriviablity but when we get the Killing Blow its a minimum of 20% healing. This is mostly if your a BG hero and there are a lack of healers in crowd situations.

    Stat Priority:
    Things change here a bit, nothing major but still changes.
    Hit 5% > Strength > Expertise (15*) > Mastery > Haste > Crit
    Why Mastery over haste? We are no long using Oblit, so our KM procs are not of major importance as such. Mastery benefits the damage of Howling Blast, Frost Strike and Frost Fever (Disease). Therefore you want to be taking mastery as your main secondary stat as we are playing with these three abilities the most.
    * I have been running with 15 Expertise for months, never had much of a problem with this.

    Spell Penetration:
    You should get at least 200 Spell Penetration, maybe up to 250 if you are having issues with mages.

    Gear:
    Gear:
    Red: [Resplendent Lava Coral]
    Yellow: [Mystic Lightstone]
    Blue: Stormy Deepholm Iolite

    Enchants:
    Helm: Str+Resil
    Shoulder: Str+Resil
    Chest: 40 Resilience
    Cloak: 70 Spell Pen / Swordguard (Tailoring)
    Bracers: 50 Expertise
    Gloves: 50 Strength
    Legs: Strength + Crit
    Boots: 50 Mastery
    Weapon: Rune of Fallen Crusader

    Presences
    First and fore most you play in UNHOLY presence.... Unless your being tunneled, then you switch to Blood... I NEVER want to see you in Frost presence.... ever!

    Skills:
    OK so we have Death Runes as standard, bye bye Blood Strike. Use this to your advantage to get in extra 2 Howling/Necrotic in.
    Personally I find that using Necro on Healers such as Paladins, Holy Priests and Resto Druids best, so use the extra two death runes on necrotic rather than howling to keep the pressure to a max. This can also be very helpful against DPS classes such as Ret Paladins, Rogues, Feral Druids. Since these classes can heal a lot on their own.
    Other than that use your 2 death runes on Howling Blast, for the damage. (Also another reason to use mastery = OP Howling damage which is semi-spamable)
    There are other things you can use death runes on, like Chains to stop kiting, opening with Plague Strike to keep diseases up constantly. Learn to love that you never have to blood strike again!

    Survivability:
    No more Death Strike spamming... You gotta learn to live without it now. Clever use of your defensive CDs will be needed. I also Presence dance. Say your against a rogue/feral/warr start the fight in Blood Presence. Their opening damage hurts, we can mitigate it a little. Switch back to UH when it's over. When they pop CDs again back into Blood. Yes its a GCD but it's gonna save your *** when you take 8% less damage. Using Icebound when they burst (Melee classes) and AMS to avoid terrifying damage from casters. Using Death Pact accordingly as it's our big instant heal, don't waste it too early on and remember it costs 40 Runic to use.
    Lichborne is our saviour. This is why you might wanna take both Glyph of Death Coil and Glyph of Death's Embrace. The extra healing is a must, and the refund of it is just too good to give up.

    You might wanna macro this and replace your normal Lichborne on your bars.

    Code:
    #showtooltip Lichborne
    /cast Lichborne
    /cast [target=player] Death Coil
    This will use Lichborne and then spam Death Coil until you run out of runic. It's 10s, you should be able to get in 4 Death Coils fine, and with the death runes you can use Howling Blast really quickly to get runic back so you can Death Coil more. This is where you gotta get the skill of knowing when to use it and when not to.
    Don't just pop it off the bat when your feared, unless the kill target is low health or your needing to peel from your partner. Save it for healing yourself later on.


    Crowd Control:
    Hungering Cold now has a Cast Time.
    WE CAN BE SPELL LOCKED!
    You get interrupted during cast you can be locked out of the Frost school, which means no Howling, Chains of Ice. Such as sad nerf. Learn to fake cast. No joke.

    Viable Arena Comps
    For 2s and 3s your comps are limited, due to most teams working better with an UH DK, but you still preform well alongside a burst class.
    2s:
    Disc/Frost = Disc needs to know what the **** Mana Burn and Fear is.
    Ret/Frost = Ret need to know how to play support, since you will be targeted a lot.

    3s:
    Shadowfrost = DK/Spriest/Healer (Rdruid is the best)
    Vanguards = DK/Ret/Healer (Priest/Rsham)

    Macros:
    There are quite a few macros that you will learn to love, I already gave you the Lichborne heal one.

    Howling Blast - Your gonna take HB off your bars and replace it with this.... cos it likes to bug out AutoAttack sometimes.

    Code:
    #showtooltip Howling Blast
    /cast Howling Blast
    /startattack
    Raise Dead/Death Pact - Big Healing, 3 Min CD

    Code:
    #showtooltip
    #show
    /castsequence Raise Dead, Death Pact
    Burst Macro - Can be used once every minute (every 2 trinket will be used if equipped)

    Code:
    #showtooltip Pillar of Frost
    /cast Outbreak
    /cast Blood Tap
    /cast Pillar of Frost
    /cast Horn of Winter
    /use 14
    Focus Strangulate - Strangs your Focus Target (If you have one, if not then current target)

    Code:
    #showtooltip Strangulate
    /cast [target=focus,harm] Strangulate [harm] Strangulate
    Focus Mind Freeze - Mind Freese your nearby Focus (without having to change targets)

    Code:
    #showtooltip Mind Freeze
    /cast [target=focus,harm] Mind Freeze
    Focus Death Grip - Long range interrupting

    Code:
    #showtooltip Death Grip
    /cast [target=focus,harm] Death Grip
    Focus Chains of Ice - Great for keeping a DPS off your *** when your on their partner.

    Code:
    #showtooltip Chains of Ice
    /cast [target=focus,harm] Chains of Ice
    I will be updating this as things go along, so keep an eye out.
    OK so I think thats about it mainly. Nothing more major changed, we got a battle res, that **** is OP. 50 Runic but its instant.

    Thanks Ceironn for the edit to Glyphs.

    Edits:
    14/12/2013 - Changed URL to different Wow Tal Calc. Also changed Glyphs due to fixed exploits.
    06/03/2014 - Added Gear section - Gems and Enchants.
    08/04/2014 - Added Arena Comp section - As Suggested by Akken.
    03/03/2022 - Fixed dead link to talent tree and reuploaded images.

    Spoiler: Show
    My other guides
    Cataclysm:
    Frost PvP 4.3
    Frost PvE 4.3

    MOP:
    Frost PvE 5.4
    Unholy PvP 5.4
    Edited: March 3, 2022

  2. Take death coil glyph instead of the frost fever one(increases healing and damage done).

  3. Take death coil glyph instead of the frost fever one(increases healing and damage done).
    yeh :x frost fever is always on with Howling.

    oh question: so we're not using Obli as much and probably Frost strike to burn runic, does blood plague still make a noticeable difference?

  4. Grymninja's Avatar
    Grymninja
    Guest
    Alright all your content seems to make good sense Jyxi. :D

    A bit more color plis. Frost guide and all you use is red. Dis not be blood. Red is for the important ideas/cautions, not sub topics. Also use bigger texts on certain phrases, like Title. It really makes it more appealing and draws people in. Kay.

    ...would you like me to proofread it? I mean it's not a big deal, but I think it'd be much better without all those grammar mistakes. *Nazi* <3

    Also if you could link the talents through talent calculator or w.e, that'd be super helpful. Touching on what arena combos are still best would also be a nice addition. :)

    Oh noes spell locks! D:


    Overall, great job. I just have some presentation issues. ;D




    P.S. Teach meh 2 fake cast plis.

  5. Alright all your content seems to make good sense Jyxi. :D

    A bit more color plis. Frost guide and all you use is red. Dis not be blood. Red is for the important ideas/cautions, not sub topics. Also use bigger texts on certain phrases, like Title. It really makes it more appealing and draws people in. Kay.

    ...would you like me to proofread it? I mean it's not a big deal, but I think it'd be much better without all those grammar mistakes. *Nazi* <3

    Also if you could link the talents through talent calculator or w.e, that'd be super helpful. Touching on what arena combos are still best would also be a nice addition. :)

    Oh noes spell locks! D:


    Overall, great job. I just have some presentation issues. ;D




    P.S. Teach meh 2 fake cast plis.
    Em, it's just showing the changes in 4.3.... there are enough guide on frost cata that I don't think a person with 70+ IQ would want to read again.

    Red = DK colour, but if it makes you happier I'll make it blue.

    And I will add a link to a talent build and add the patch notes in a spoiler at the top.

  6. Grymninja's Avatar
    Grymninja
    Guest
    Em, it's just showing the changes in 4.3.... there are enough guide on frost cata that I don't think a person with 70+ IQ would want to read again.

    Red = DK colour, but if it makes you happier I'll make it blue.

    And I will add a link to a talent build and add the patch notes in a spoiler at the top.
    but half the people on molten have IQ of less than 70... D: Unless you don't care about them. ;D

    I just personalize the guide according to spec, not class, but w.e it's personal preference.

  7. Died's Avatar
    Died
    Guest
    I've never bothered to use the Strangulate glyph because my latency makes it hard to land interrupts, so I usually just plan around a blanket silence. Is there any merit to the idea of using the Chains of Ice glyph in its place?

    Also: which accessories are you using to hit your rating caps?

  8. Alright, again, I'm correcting you on your "never no aint no never Obliterate" attitude.

    Keep it on your bars. Even if it's not on your main bars. If you enjoy tearing anyone that isn't a plate class or an Enhancement Shaman the **** up, you'll keep it. Also, take the point out of Obliterate damage (and maybe the two points out of Pale Horse) and put it into KM. It'll pay off in the long run, especially if you keep the "No Oblit" mentality.

    Don't count on Glyph of Death's Embrace for long. It shouldn't return RP while self-healing off Lichborne anymore, and it will likely be fixed soon. Once that's gone, get the Death Grip range. It's really nice, especially if you have focus grip macros set up. Also nice for getting openers against other DKs.

    Should also include for Lichborne healing that, if possible, popping Pillar increases each individual heal by about 6k/ea, which is an extra ~40k healing if you fully dump 130RP.

    If this is supposed to be a comprehensive guide, you meed macros:
    Focus Chains, Focus Grip, Focus Strang, a macro to set targets as focus (mouseover, target), et cetera.

    Take the three points out of disease length in UH and put them in disease damage.

    Your expertise should be anywhere between 12 and 16, I use 14 and rarely (maybe once in 25 duels) get dodged or parried. Also, a side note for most people that are **** about their 5% hit. If you can't get exactly 5.00%, do NOT go under by more than .10% (4.90% hit). Trust me, the .1% is misleading -- you'll be missing a **** load of moves.

    Do not completely eliminate Death Strike. It's still useful as hell. Even if you didn't completely mean to eliminate DS, people follow these guides relgiously if they've never played the spec before.

    I've never bothered to use the Strangulate glyph because my latency makes it hard to land interrupts, so I usually just plan around a blanket silence. Is there any merit to the idea of using the Chains of Ice glyph in its place?

    Also: which accessories are you using to hit your rating caps?
    CoI glyph sucks. No.

    Literally, my DK is sitting in full 5pc Vicious, along with weapon and relic, everything else is Ruthless, and I can't get my hit under 5.2% fully reforging out of it. I was at 5.02% in full Vicious.

    That's about it for now, I guess. Other than those things, most of which are mimor, good guide.

  9. Died's Avatar
    Died
    Guest
    PS: faced a FDK/HPal in 2s on my warlock yesterday - holy ****!

  10. No, green is dk color! Good guide, saved me from updating mine, im too lazy.

  11. Ok so question on expertise....
    Im in almost full vic (only helm, 1 trink and sword BT) I only have 1 piece on my with expertise and thats the vic shoulders. I completely reforged everything to mastery, socket gems to str+master+spell pen I have:

    5.15% hit, cant get any lower.
    220 spell pen cuz of 3 blue slots and cape :x
    Haste at 56%
    Mastery 15.01
    and ....tun tun tun.....6/6 expertise x.x....

    If I start reforging for expertise to 13-14 my mastery will be badly hit (potentially under 13)

    The only other pieces of gear that has expertise is the neck and bracer of proficiency. Bracer I can get since the one I have now increases haste. but if I replace neck that's 81 hit lost and which is also 81 mastery lost somewhere else to make up for it.

    Advices? x.x DW atm, waiting for coin shop to open to buy OP 2h :x

  12. Grymninja's Avatar
    Grymninja
    Guest
    Can you not reforge some haste? Or is that the minimum with Molten's bugged haste and icy talons and what not.

    *DAMMIT WHY CAN'T I GET MY HASTE UNDER 50%?!?!* - said no retail player ever

  13. AMS glyph not work havent +2 sec more ?

  14. Also, take the point out of Obliterate damage (and maybe the two points out of Pale Horse) and put it into KM. It'll pay off in the long run, especially if you keep the "No Oblit" mentality.
    Go home you're drunk.


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