Enhancement 4.3.4 Discussion

**brontokz** · February 28, 2014

wasnt it something like : the shaman deals 55k crit damage but the target died a milisecond before the actual damage calculated, so it deals 0 damage (because the target already dead) and 55k overkill.
caused by connection delay between server and client, sort of?

**Panofsky** · February 28, 2014

Originally Posted by Cytolysis

If there's one thing that annoys me in the forums, it's people spreading big rumors without actual proof.

Ok, so, talking about proofs. Please link me one video from retail (not from other buggy private servers) where I can see a 55k lava lash crit on pvp. I've tried to find one on youtube, always watching those with random bgs and world pvp content (where you have higher chances to fight people with low resilience) and I've never seen crits which are higher than 40k. If you say that you have tested lava lash damage pve-wise and it's retail-like then there is something wrong with resilience (a general resilience bug or bad interaction between lava lash and resilience). That wouldn't surprise me, it's Molten.

**Cytolysis** · February 28, 2014

Originally Posted by Panofsky

Ok, so, talking about proofs. Please link me one video from retail (not from other buggy private servers) where I can see a 55k lava lash crit on pvp. I've tried to find one on youtube, always watching those with random bgs and world pvp content (where you have higher chances to fight people with low resilience) and I've never seen crits which are higher than 40k. If you say that you have tested lava lash damage pve-wise and it's retail-like then there is something wrong with resilience (a general resilience bug or bad interaction between lava lash and resilience). That wouldn't surprise me, it's Molten.

I don't get what's so hard to believe about a 55k LL crit on full vicious warrior.

Full vicious is about 38% damage reduction. We have an average crit of about 90k in PvE with high gear and 5 searing stacks. 38% of 90k is 34200. That would mean a 90k crit in PvE would translate to a 55k (90k-34.2k) crit in PvP.

Now do you still want me to waste my time searching for some youtube video, while all you have done so far is making dubious statements to which I continuously have provided explanations, even if you could have figured it out yourself if you would take some time to actually verify the things you are saying.

**Panofsky** · February 28, 2014

Originally Posted by Cytolysis

I don't get what's so hard to believe about a 55k LL crit on full vicious warrior.

Full vicious is about 38% damage reduction. We have an average crit of about 90k in PvE with high gear and 5 searing stacks. 38% of 90k is 34200. That would mean a 90k crit in PvE would translate to a 55k (90k-34.2k) crit in PvP.

Now do you still want me to waste my time searching for some youtube video, while all you have done so far is making dubious statements to which I continuously have provided explanations, even if you could have figured it out yourself if you would take some time to actually verify the things you are saying.

Yes but high pve gear increases your dps perfomances a lot. You can't compare the dps done by an arms warrior in pve with the dps done in pvp doing some simple percentual calculations. Pvp gear gives you critical strike chance and resilience rating, while pve gear gives you more useful stats. I don't know about the enhancement spec but as for arms, for example, some abilities don't work on the same way on pve and on pvp. Take Colossus Smash, ignoring 100% armor on pve and only 50% on pvp. You have to consider you have a different talent build which can help even more. So I don't think that a pure calculation of the damage reduction given by resilience can explain this. I've actually found only one video of a enhancement shaman on 4.3 doing massive windfury crits with two hand weapon and full potion, buffs and bloodthirsty effect, which wasn't my case since that shammy was just regularly bg buffed and dual wielding.

Spoiler: Show

PowerChaos · March 1, 2014

should I use fire or windfury? dual wield or 2hand?

**brontokz** · March 1, 2014

Originally Posted by Panofsky

Yes but high pve gear increases your dps perfomances a lot. You can't compare the dps done by an arms warrior in pve with the dps done in pvp doing some simple percentual calculations. Pvp gear gives you critical strike chance and resilience rating, while pve gear gives you more useful stats. I don't know about the enhancement spec but as for arms, for example, some abilities don't work on the same way on pve and on pvp. Take Colossus Smash, ignoring 100% armor on pve and only 50% on pvp. You have to consider you have a different talent build which can help even more. So I don't think that a pure calculation of the damage reduction given by resilience can explain this. I've actually found only one video of a enhancement shaman on 4.3 doing massive windfury crits with two hand weapon and full potion, buffs and bloodthirsty effect, which wasn't my case since that shammy was just regularly bg buffed and dual wielding.

Spoiler: Show

Lava lash work the same way pvp and pve wise.
It modified by : searing totem stacks (20% more lava lash damage per stack, max 5 stacks), flametongue weapon imbue (40% more lava lash damage if wore on off hand), glyph (20% more) EDIT : frozen power talent : increasing 10% lava lash and several other spells and abilities damage to target affected by frostbrand attack. And by mastery and talents flat damage increase (xx% more fire, nature and frost damage done) but we shouldn't consider that since it's flat damage, non conditional, and cover all of our abilities not only lavalash.

if i remember correctly there's also one tier armor 2piece/4piece bonus with lava lash damage... forgot which armor tho.

But without armor bonus, lava lash already did 260% of it's normal damage (which is already 300% of attack damage). So it deals on critical... what? 14 times normal attack damage or so, in fire damage (so it will be further enlarged by mastery and talent flat bonuses). (btw before reforging into mastery, I already have 1600 mastery rating, equal to 42% added fire nature and frost damage, with elemental precision talent = total 45% moar damage)

however you can VERY easily screw the lava lash damage by doing a simple thing : dont get stacks of searing totem. It will cut down the damage from 55k crit to 30k crit.

Or maybe make sure the shaman doesn't get flametongue weapon imbue on offhand. Is it purge-able? I have no idea.

really, almost half of our talents glyphs and bonuses just revolve around this one ability and lightning bolt/chain. What did you expect?

edit again: PVE give hit rating and mastery, crit and haste. Enha shaman abhor haste, so it will be reforged into all mastery or crit for some. However, PVP honor tier 11 set give resilience and mastery or crit at roughly the same amount (only about 20 difference per armor, and there's more stamina/agi on pvp armor as well) if compared with JP (FL) tier set.
It was still, roughly, the same. Note if the shaman in question use FL 2set or more (like me, i goes to BG using PVE just for lulz sometimes) then he'll get the set bonus +25% lava lash damage per searing totem stacks. So there.

**brontokz** · March 1, 2014

oh yeah it might be minimal and I dont know how the spell interact (the damage dealt separately or just added the damage into the ability used) but lava lash proc static shock from our talent (deals damage equal to one lighnting shield orb)

Ryugar · March 5, 2014

@LL

I have noticed that there are some bugs with LL as well. It seems to miss/dodge often, or do less damage then it should.

I feel this happens more often when you use LL soon after another attack, so right after a gcd. Sometimes using LL will be delayed, or it will be used but nothing happens. I hope this gets fixed as LL is our primary ability and should hit for decent damage, with or without SF stacks.

Really, the delay in gcds and using abilities one after the other seems to be a common problem for a few abilities for me, I can't seem to chain them, but LL is extra buggy.

@ Gear and Talents

Just wondering.... I play on Frostwolf but am having a hard time finding gear at 85 so I can raid. Its very frustrating. Does anyone have any tips on how to gear up? Like quests, rep, or the few dungeons I can do with my low ilvl? Any help is appreciated.

Also, what talents if any are bugged or don't work properly? Same with abilities and glyphs, like Feral Spirits and the glyphs that go with it.... are they working at all? Thanks for any advice.

**akken** · March 5, 2014

Originally Posted by PowerChaos

should I use fire or windfury? dual wield or 2hand?

Thats the question :P well @h+windfury (i ididnt saw any 2h ench since tbc to be honest) and dual-wield windfury on mh and fire on offh.

Originally Posted by Panofsky

Yes but high pve gear increases your dps perfomances a lot. You can't compare the dps done by an arms warrior in pve with the dps done in pvp doing some simple percentual calculations. Pvp gear gives you critical strike chance and resilience rating, while pve gear gives you more useful stats. I don't know about the enhancement spec but as for arms, for example, some abilities don't work on the same way on pve and on pvp. Take Colossus Smash, ignoring 100% armor on pve and only 50% on pvp. You have to consider you have a different talent build which can help even more. So I don't think that a pure calculation of the damage reduction given by resilience can explain this. I've actually found only one video of a enhancement shaman on 4.3 doing massive windfury crits with two hand weapon and full potion, buffs and bloodthirsty effect, which wasn't my case since that shammy was just regularly bg buffed and dual wielding.

Spoiler: Show

Theguy is hitting ONLY 50k crits on UNGEARED ppl like c'mmon in full cataclysmic? im hitting such pplfor 1-2 hits to own them not 3 :P