When ppl here will understand that DPS test on DUMMIE is not real. You can't make some conclusions from dumie only self buffed. Why not use this your programm on DB for example? Then i'm sure your numbers will be different. OMG. If you tell me that it's same and it's proporcional in icc with full buffs or on dummie only self buffed then your mathematic is too bad because it's not proporcional. This tell you man who did learn supreme mathematic 5 years. Jesus... no point to argue anymore here.
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Well, as far i know the mechanic for swing timer is for every class the same.
When u use instant spells, such as dots, icelance, shocks or lightning bolt with 5 maelstrom stacks, then they dont trigger the swing timer.
When u hard cast spells, such as fireball, lightning bolt or wrath, then they trigger the swing timer.
Means when u have for example a weapon with 3.0 speed and u cast lightning bolt then it triggers ur swing timer and the next auto attack is executed after 3 seconds.
Now when u use instant lightning bolt with 5 maelstrom stacks it doesnt trigger ur swing timer and u can use the next auto attack straight away.
"Caster" melee classes such as enh shami or ret paly use only instant spells and thats why their swing timer isnt affected.
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Hm.... I couldn't understand you very well but i'll start from there, melee auto hit hasn't GCD like caster's spells (if it had idk how it should be manage with rogues for example). a full bis ele shaman with full procs of relic has around 1350 haste rating => it gains on his royal scepter around 0.8s melee haste of normal auto swing. Because as all ele shaman is caster class his time of cast is limited to 1s because GCD, what is more than 0.8s. Because this reason between every cast ele shaman does 1 auto swing. Idk for real if it works properly on molten but in principle on all my spells (mainly LB, CL and FS) i use macro for /startautoatack, what proly fix this bug. But as i told in my previous post just read Flametongue Weapon imbue spell or "each hit cause 89.0 to 274 additional Fire damage, based on the speed of the weapon." Nowhere i see on the spell to write this part is only for enhancement spec. i will underline again "BASED ON THE SPEED OF THE WEAPON". Because this ele shaman was ignored from this "rule" for swing timer reset.
Edited: November 30, 2015
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Just tested it on ragnaros and the character does indeed a auto attack after every hardcast.
Im pretty sure that its not supposed to be like that. Hardcasting should always trigger the swing timer and therefore delay ur next auto attack while instant spells dont delay ur auto attack.
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Bro i'll repeat for X-time, "each hit cause 89.0 to 274 additional Fire damage, based on the speed of the weapon." Nowhere i see on the spell to write this part is only for enhancement spec. I will underline again "BASED ON THE SPEED OF THE WEAPON". Even to be resto if you imbue with flametongue instead of earthliving only for test it will be same, so don't be so "pretty sure that its not supposed to be like that" The spell just refutes you.
Edited: December 1, 2015
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What are u talking about ?????
U talk about a completely different topic.
Im talking about the interaction of spells and the auto attack swing timer.
It has nothing to do with the flametongue weapon imbue.
https://www.warmane.com/bugtracker/report/9319
Here is even a confirmed bug report about this issue.
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No bro i talk about same topic just you cant make connections between them or 2+2=?. So now read again careful this report where you linked: "Something seems to be wrong with the interaction of auto attack and spell casting.
Sometimes it happens that my Shaman uses auto attack straight after casting Lightning Bolt.
I have a two hand axe with 3,2 speed and to my understanding a casted spell should trigger the swing timer and not make it possible to auto attack for the next 3,2 sec. The first part of this "bug" - "Sometimes it happens that my Shaman uses auto attack straight after casting Lightning Bolt." personal i did a explanation why this happened and why this is not a bug. Second part of this: "I have a two hand axe with 3,2 speed and to my understanding a casted spell should trigger the swing timer and not make it possible to auto attack for the next 3,2 sec". Now i can look at this second part in several ways. On first place this shaman said he used 3.2s weapon but actually he didn't say with it he does 1 auto swing between every LB because its not true. I don't see connections between first and second parts of this report. In my opinion for first part he used some fast weapon (around 1.8s for example), for second part this 3.2s weapon because I tested before 10 mins and it's impossable when you use weapon with melee haste over your cast haste, your character to does auto swing between every cast. If you dont trust me test with any addon like Quartz where you can setting to show you GCD and weapon reset timer and you will see when you do 1 auto swing the timer start to count from 3.2s to back. A visual you can see this shaman to do any hit but it's only visual for real it does not make a hit (it's same when you attack some mob on auto hit and during this time you click with the right mouse button on this target several times, so you see your character does visual hit on each click but for real 0 damage.)So i understood perfect what you want to say, just you couldn't understand me what i had in provident. Again. If shaman has haste rating = x (constant, because haste raiting will reduce the timer of spell casting and melee hits proporcional), a = your casting time with haste x and b = your weapon haste with haste rating x, you need a such weapon where the rule a>=b is true, then you will do autohit between every LBs. If you use weapon where the rule a<b (as this shaman claims in his report, but who knows for real), it's impossable shaman to do 1 auto swing between every LB (he will do between 2 LBs but impossable between each cast).
Now this what you mean and what is not true (i will repeat agian just download and test with Quartz).
1. Imagine you have such weapon and haste rating where your a =1s and b = 1.5s, or a<b , then:
LB => Swing => LB => LB => Swing => LB => LB => Swing =>...
(1s) (1s) + (1s) (1s) + (1s)
(1.5s) (1.5s)
2. Imagine you have such weapon and haste rating where your a =1.5s and b = 1s, or a>b , then:
LB => Swing => LB => Swing => LB => Swing =>...
(1.5s) (1.5s) (1.5s)
(1s) (1s)Edited: December 2, 2015
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Mate, Jakkre pointing to a bug into collisions between spell casting and swing timer for shamans. First post about this was on "The wings of Bugtracker". Maniacofpeace, pointed to a question: is this mechanic was on Blizzard servers during Wotlk expansion. IDK. All data about that are lost maybe, but I found some web records about swing/spell resets in Blizzard's CATA expansion...
For all classes casting any spell resets the swing timer WHEN THE CAST COMPLETES. However, there are some exceptions to that rule. Shaman and paladins casting instants does not reset their swing timer, however if they are made instant through nature's swiftness or elemental mastery or most other mechanics then they still reset the swing timer. Warriors casting Slam will clip the swing timer instead of resetting it, ie if the swing timer intersects the cast time then that swing simply does not occur. On a similar note paladins with Art of War active and shaman with Maelstrom Weapon active casting spells affected by those buffs also clip the swing timer instead of resetting it.
How it works with spells with a cast time is that any swings that would hit during the cast simply do not occur. When the cast completes the swing timer is then reset except for Slam and spells cast with MW/AoW active that are also affected by MW/AoW. You can see that by starting a LvB cast and then cancelling it with a macro while watching the swing timer. If you cancel just before the swing is due to hit then the hit still occurs. Let the cast complete and then the swing timer(s) are reset which is clearly shown by the MH/OH hits at the end of that log sample as the swings before the LvB cast were off sync by 0.4 seconds while after the cast they show the spacing you would expect after a full reset.
Resource link
Moreover, ILECDW is someway right in the last post. You tested that with a 3.2s weapon. Most elemental shamans have some 1.8 maces or SP daggers. With over 1100 Haste rating and raid buffs the default swing timer is 0.8s. After each FS casted we have 100% swing hit. After BL the swing timer is reduced to 0.6-0.7s!!! Due to GCD mechanic, even with reseted swing timers we are able to perform one hit between casted Lava or CL and next spell which is equal to:
(GCD - 0.3/0.4s) + input lags + latency
Anywawy, at the same time there are some random clipping effects to this mechanics and swing timer isn't reseted after spell cast. Want to say: "This minor bug works with a 50/50% chance". I noticed, time to time swings resets and I'm unable to swing after spell cast.Edited: December 2, 2015
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@Rexarjr thanks for clearing that up. Couldnt find this source.
I already had this assumption that a single auto attack is possible during the GCD of shock.
It definitely bugged on Warmane because here u can use a auto attack straight after every hardcast.Edited: December 2, 2015
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I'm sure with Rexar up.
Jakkre, Ofc sigle atacks is possable during GCD of shock or whatever instant cast you want. This is because GCD dont work on melee hit. If your character hasnt what to do during this time it just will do 1 hit. Its not like normal casting because when you cast some spell like LB, the GCD refreshes during your cast. For example if you cast LB for 1.3s, the GCD for this cast will refresh on 0.3s before to end this cast. If you pont this for bug, imagine what will happen with enha shaman. As you know almost 95% from the time enha shaman has what to cast (stormstrike, lava lash, shocks, magma totem, fire nova, instant LB,CL) and it will happen that enha shaman couldnt do 1 hit, but he is mainly melee spec :D because look:
Imagine you start rotation with enha shaman. You cast flame shock what is instant for 0s cast time and in your opinion you need to wait 1s GCD to do first melee attack. But after this 1 s GCD shaman will need to cast stormstrike for example and etc...Because this reason all melee classes use only instant cast. Cause GCD dont work on meele hit. Ofc there are some exceptions from this rule as rexi said up, but not by chance Bllizard did talent where enha shaman can make LB and CL instant. There has such talent with retry paladin and his Exorhism spell, and many more. The Slam of war is one of the exceptions from this rule for real, but ppl from Bllizard are not stupid - it always has some plan in this. :)Edited: December 4, 2015
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I just want to clear this a bit.
Maelstrom and Art of War like procs make spells which normal have cast time instance, which means casting instant spell during these procs will not affect your Auto attack swing timers.
If you cast any spell, even if it is 0.5 sec cast, your Auto attack timer will reset. Lets say your attack speed is 3 sec, you just landed an Auto attack, after 2 seconds you decided to cast a spell with casting time, because of that your Auto attack timer should reset back to 3 sec, which means you next Auto attack should land 3sec after you casted spell, not 1 sec as you may thought.
I dont know about Warmane bugs in this matter but this is how it should work.
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Yes! it is.
Usually shaman's swing timer is near 1 sec. If tuned correct: 0.6-0.8s.
Well, Jakkre opened a post to Bugtrucker about it, cause on Warmane swing timer resets in any case. If they'll fix this, then only elemental shaman's DPS will fall a bit during tank and spank fights. Enhancement shaman's DPS will fall a way higher, because usually it make sense to cast a LB or CL at 3-4 Maelstrom stacks during BL (with cast time under 0.4 s). With this fixed they'll be forced to cast LB with 5MS stack even during BL or any haste buff, otherwise they'll lost a chance to Windfury. So this fixed will turn for Enh to lost even more usability of abilities.
This is funny. With current mechanic the shamans looks more balanced compared to other classes.Edited: December 13, 2015
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Rexar btw what is the name of the addon what you use for healthbar ? Because i try to find it in google but unsuccessful.
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Wow, now this is a f**king guide!!
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What do you mean in your dual conversation :)?
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