Yeah, you're right, I went and checked, and the TankSpot article I used was wrong, it actually works the way rc100 says. Here's the EJ source:
Spoiler:Show
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Member
Edited: January 8, 2018
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Member
These are some prominent links that put the extra mitigation from Improved Demo Roar at 4-5%.Is there a source for the Attack Power information? The fractions seem somewhat familiar to me, and I'm almost certain they're correct. I vaguely remember some fractions that were thrown around during Retail-WoW but much of the documentation on those little details have been lost of buried over the years since WotLK.
http://www.fluiddruid.net/2009/10/th...-guide-part-3/
http://web.archive.org/web/201302091...ralizing_Shout
As best as I could tell when I used to play actively, you do probably get somewhere around 4-5% mitigation on warmane too, even if boss damage formulas with regard to AP involvement probably aren't blizz-perfect yet.
Obviously this makes having some form of the improved debuff in a raid mandatory. It's the equivalent of having several thousand extra armor. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's mandatory for a bear to be specced into it, but it's definitely extremely useful. Relying on a Fury Warrior or Ret to keep it up for you is sketchy. You risk the debuff falling off in the event of say, a Val'kyr grab, or if one of them dies, or really any other random circumstance that reduces their uptime on the boss. Warlocks with their improved Curse of Weakness are more reliable because of the 2 minute duration of their debuff, plus the convenience of having less boss downtime by virtue of being RDPS, but most Warlocks are going to be loath to grit their teeth and accept that they won't be using a DPS curse, and the overall DPS loss from that might not be in the best interests of your raid either.
For that reason I've always maintained that Bears should take a serious interest in investing the full 5 points in the talent and becoming fully self-sufficient in that regard. It's more than just a terrific convenience; you also eliminate a lot of the little issues and possible dangers of banking on some other member of the raid to provide that debuff for you. Even more than that, you're also able to occasionally apply it to great mitigative uses that aren't necessarily MT-oriented. Like on LK phase 1, as you're moving the boss down the platform for Shadow Traps, usually you're also able to catch the Shambling Horrors that the off-tank is tanking with Demoralizing Roar. This is clearly a significant use of the spell that is going to help a lot in preventing needless wipes, and it occurs more intuitively for you as a tank to do this, than it would for say, a Fury Warrior, who only regards it as a secondary duty and probably has other primary focuses. As a tank you're the one most likely to go out of your way to catch as many stray adds in any given fight with the debuff as possible, and having an AoE ability that reduces enemy AP by a full 575 is a profoundly invaluable tool to that end.
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Wind of Northrend
Got a question...
Lets say u are BiS bear tank.
https://imgur.com/a/aGyde
[Petrified Twilight Scale]?
[Satrina's Impeding Scarab]?
Which one of these trinkets would be better for fight such as Lich King?
I mean i tanked it with both, but just want to know which one is better (minmaxing this **** right now)...
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I'm no expert on Druids, but:
If it helps you answer your own question, your passive EHP is only 0.7% higher with Satrina (negligible), but the E/HP ratio being higher with PTS means you will require less HPS to be kept alive, not counting the proc/use effects. The only question that remains is if you'd like the use of Satrina's or the proc effects more.
Unless you can use that Satrina to soak one Soul Reaper more than you usually would, I'd say it will not be worth, despite how cool it looks to see big HP numbers. Although, if you can't soak more with it, it still gives you an """excess""" cooldown to pop when a healer gets taken by a valk or indisposed otherwise.
If it was me, I'd change to Satrina with inexperienced healers, since I'd count on them not knowing how to compensate for healing with a man down, whereas experienced healers would probably appreciate more mana efficiency throughout the fight, where PTS wins by a margin of at least 6%.
PS: This is all just counting EHP from gear, it's not adjusted for talents, but it's only used to evaluate gear pieces against each other. Your actual EHP will be much higher under raid buffs, talents and procs of course.Edited: January 21, 2018
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Member
According the formula i know its looking like this stats are taken from my Bear.
With [Satrina's Impeding Scarab]
Armor - 35600 [70.03%]
HP - 60597
Effective Health - 190279
Effective Health per Stamina - 31.401
Ac equal to 1 Stamina - 8.62
With [Petrified Twilight Scale] - its normal one couse i dont have HC version
Armor - 37882 [71.32%]
HP - 57207
Effective Health - 187481
Effective Health per Stamina - 32.772
Ac equal to 1 Stamina - 9.53
All the numbers are with just mark on myself.
In ICC and kings numbers will be different, because we will have 40% [icc buff and kings] more stamina but armor will stay the same.
nb. trinkets proc and use are not include in this calculation only pure stamina vs armor.
ps. saw your pics
With [Satrina's Impeding Scarab]
Armor - 34006
HP - 58297
Effective Health - 177470
Effective Health per Stamina - 30.442
Ac equal to 1 Stamina - 8.687
With [Petrified Twilight Scale] -
Armor - 36528
HP - 55087
Effective Health - 176050
Effective Health per Stamina - 31.959
Ac equal to 1 Stamina - 9.651
rip. its late and Eva already post the same numbers in hes pictures;]/Edited: January 21, 2018
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Member
The stam from the TOGC trink serves as a handy respite from the occasional surges of spell damage you suffer, like Reapers and Vile Spirits. The on-use +7-8% EHP for 15 seconds is something you're also usually able to put towards more pragmatic use than the dodge proc from PTS.
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Member
Hey super good guide!! i have one question. Can a bis feral tank a soul reaper in 25hc without any cd at all??
Edited: January 22, 2018
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Member
A simultaneous melee hit + Soul Reaper's initial shadow-strike damage? Maybe, depending on damage ranges and the partial resist amount of the shadow-strike hit. Probably not though.
A simultaneous melee hit + the 70k dot tick at the end? Certainly not.
If you do survive any of these without any CDs running, it would have been because you got lucky with dodging the melee hit that came around the time of the reaper's shadow damage, or the melee hit and shadow damage portions happened far enough apart that your healers were able to keep your health up through it.
I understand you're likely just asking this out of curiosity about what a BiS bear is able to live through in its default state, but it's not that realistic because you would rarely not have a CD for a SR anyway. One of the strengths of a Bear on this fight is that you're always able to have some kind of small cooldown running for every reaper. Excluding the Sindy Trink, you have 2 small CDs on a short 1 minute cd that you're able to keep alternating for SR - Barkskin and your t10 4p - since reapers happen 30 seconds apart. These CDs aren't necessarily that great by themselves, but coupled with some external support, and also partly by dint of you being an EHP behemoth, it makes you very sturdy through a reaper. Not that you actually have to alternate them; you can choose to pop them together too, depending on your raid's strategy for handling the reapers - which is another discussion entirely, albeit one very much worth having.Edited: January 24, 2018
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Member
Put together "BiS" Expertise-capped gear sets tailored to Sindy and Halion, with a few factors in mind apart from the parry-hasting. EHP was the second priority right after being parry-capped. Let me know if it can be optimized any further.
Halion (Main-tanking)
Spoiler:Show
Notes:
Expertise rating, after Expertise food: 376 Expertise rating -> ~45.88 Expertise -> 45 Expertise.
Primal Precision then puts you at 55 Expertise. Technically you're still 1 Expertise short of the hard-cap, but at this point you get parried infrequently enough that it wouldn't be worth sacrificing more defensive stats for it. If you have OCD about the remaining Expertise you could just use a +10 Expertise +15 stam (Guardian's Dreadstone) somewhere.
Spell Hit rating = 114 -> 4.346%.
Your hit rating is really low. That's because you're sacrificing the threat for defensive stats here. Taunt missing is not a concern because you should only hit your taunt once in this encounter, and that's right at the start where you're going to be receiving heavy threat redirection anyway. There aren't any tank swaps, and the Living Inferno is immune to taunts. If you want to guarantee your taunt lands at the start, you can start with a Cryptmaker before switching back to WGG.
Most of the gear is self-explanatory. It's pretty delightful how ludicrously easy it is to be (almost) parry hard-capped as a Bear. You're only changing 2 pieces of gear from the standard EHP BiS set, and one of them is a BoE. Oathbinder can be substituted in place of WGG if you'd rather lose some HP to have much better threat and DPS. I think it's also conceivable that Unidentifiable Organ might have some use in place of the TOGC trink here if you're main-tanking outside and are picking up the Living Inferno too. While the armor doesn't help against the Inferno, the fact that you're tanking 2 targets at once will ensure that the stamina buff stays stacked up (unless you're just that unlucky) for as long as you're tanking both the Inferno and the Halion. The resulting increase in your physical EHP will serve as very nice insurance against Halion's melee hits, since those are always going to be the main danger.
This doesn't feature any resistance gear, but it goes without saying that things like the Lesser Flask of Resistance (+50 resist) and the LW bracer enchants (+70 resist) are going to be amazing.
I would also glyph Maul in place of Growl if you're tanking outside. So long as you know not to Maul when there's a chance it might catch Living Embers and glue them onto you, glyphed Maul is going to turn out to be a drastic increase to your threat and DPS. It's also going to increase your Savage Defense uptime, which is nice because Savage Defense uptime usually suffers a lot any time you're tanking more than 1 target.
Sindragosa
Spoiler:Show
Notes:
Same amount of Expertise as the Halion set.
Spell Hit rating = 158 -> 6.024%.
Glyph of Growl puts you 14.024% spell hit for your taunt, and the spriest/boomkin debuff covers the remaining 3%. On Sindy p3, it's more than reasonable to expect the Hit Rating debuff to be up on the boss at the time of a taunt swap.
The main difference here compared to the set for Halion is that you swapped out the armor cloak for the hit rating one. This is because tank swaps are involved on Sindragosa, and unlike a DK or Pally who have 2 taunts, you only have 1 so you can't afford having your taunt miss. If you really wanted to min-max things, you could technically continue to run with the Armor cloak and then swap to a Cryptmaker (for its hit rating) just before you have to taunt, and then swap back to the WGG after the taunt.
This doesn't feature any frost resistance pieces because it's assumed that you're much more concerned about her physical damage than her frost damage. If the Frost damage is an issue, I would suggest that you explore the possibility of using a Flask of Lesser resistance, helmet frost resist enchant, as well as the +70 Frost Resist on wrists that you get as a bonus from LW, before you swap out any of the gear listed here. If you must fit in a frost resistance piece, make sure it's the belt, and not the boots or the crafted ring. Signified Ring of Binding could also easily be a viable (if somewhat suboptimal) replacement for Devium's Eternally Cold Ring if you're shooting for a specific partial resist breakpoint.Edited: February 10, 2018
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Or you can just keep everything as usual on your set and play with Oxheart with one gem for exp and Footpads of Impending Death with stamina gems.Not many bears run with wrath staff.
55 exp - 379
35074 - armor
60k+ hp or 5187 - stamina
6.65% - hit
474 - arp
ps. We did Halion and Sindi with MT having just 7 exp, even Halion was 2 healing outside.Edited: February 9, 2018
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Member
The rationale is that if you're going to be swapping out 2 pieces of gear to their lower ilevel Expertise alternatives either way, one of them might as well not be your 2h weapon, since that has the highest stat budget associated with it, particularly for ferals.
Edited: February 9, 2018
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This isn't relevant in the slightest to the discussion (which is about an optimal set featuring exp cap), but pray tell since when does Halion 2 heal outside?
[;รถ[]
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Member
Can you post the actually stats from your sets pls?
Edited: February 9, 2018
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On rawr, with basically all raid buffs turned on.
1) With the expertise ring and WGG:
92076 HP
41121 Armour
9863 Attack Power
114 Hit Rating
376 Expertise Rating
2) With the AV ring and Oxheart:
91387 HP
40642 Armour
9749 Attack Power
169 Hit Rating
399 Expertise Rating (21 Rating over the cap)
3) With the Ony 25 ring and Oxheart:
90438 HP
41281 Armour
9560 Attack Power
114 Hit Rating
399 Expertise Rating (21 Rating over the cap)
+ 30 Resistance
4) With the Ony 25 Ring, WGG, and Devium's ring swapped out for Expertise one (yikes)
91075 HP
41141 Armour
9580 Attack power
114 Hit Rating
376 Expertise Rating
+ 30 Resistance
The first trades excess hit rating for EHP in the form of stamina and armor, and makes better use of the 2h weapon slot. The 3rd has less physical EH than the first as well as less threat, but it offers you +30 to your spell damage resistances. Even then, the 3rd set seems slightly outperformed by the 4th.Edited: February 9, 2018
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Member
Ty i dont know what exact set you did on rawr but the numbers i have in ICC with the one im playing are higher compere to your set 1. I`ll try to make picture on my toon to show it.
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