1. Hi from 2019, I have a question.
    In this guide, you gave an avoidance counting formula, and you say that miss, dodge, parry and block are simply added to each other to count total avoidance, like it is an axiom. Can I find a proof of your words somewhere? Some people say that dodge is not needed in ICC because of its debuff, and I want to disappoint them a bit.

  2. Hi from 2019, I have a question.
    In this guide, you gave an avoidance counting formula, and you say that miss, dodge, parry and block are simply added to each other to count total avoidance, like it is an axiom. Can I find a proof of your words somewhere? Some people say that dodge is not needed in ICC because of its debuff, and I want to disappoint them a bit.
    Avoidance is a poor word choice on my part... since block is not avoidance (only reduction)

    But yes, thats exactly how it works. Look for info about hit table. Wow uses single roll system for the hit part. So it generates 1 random number for each attack, that decides if it hits you. (if that number is smaller than your chance to be missed it misses, if its bigger, but smaller than missed + dodge chance, you will dodge, etc...)

    That thing about dodge not being usefull has been talked about 1000 times and still there are some ppl who just dont get it... icc debuff is flat 20%, not 20% of your dodge ratting... (you can check that by entering icc and comparing dodge % inside and outside) as long as you have over 20% dodge all additional dodge ratting has full value. (well, there are diminishing returns, but parry ones are much harder still)

  3. Avoidance is a poor word choice on my part... since block is not avoidance (only reduction)

    But yes, thats exactly how it works. Look for info about hit table. Wow uses single roll system for the hit part. So it generates 1 random number for each attack, that decides if it hits you. (if that number is smaller than your chance to be missed it misses, if its bigger, but smaller than missed + dodge chance, you will dodge, etc...)

    That thing about dodge not being usefull has been talked about 1000 times and still there are some ppl who just dont get it... icc debuff is flat 20%, not 20% of your dodge ratting... (you can check that by entering icc and comparing dodge % inside and outside) as long as you have over 20% dodge all additional dodge ratting has full value. (well, there are diminishing returns, but parry ones are much harder still)
    Yes, I agree that block is not an avoidance in a good meaning of this word. Better to say avoidance+block. But now it does not make sense, since we are trying to proof that dodge is better than parry even in ICC. All I want now is to find a proper guide of 3.3.5 avoidance+block calculation, which is difficult because 3.3.5 is deprecated.

    UPD: I finally found it! The article is dated year 2008 - exactly when WotLK was in play.
    http://wow.allakhazam.com/wiki/hit_table_%28wow%29
    Edited: February 7, 2019

  4. Yes, I agree that block is not an avoidance in a good meaning of this word. Better to say avoidance+block. But now it does not make sense, since we are trying to proof that dodge is better than parry even in ICC. All I want now is to find a proper guide of 3.3.5 avoidance+block calculation, which is difficult because 3.3.5 is deprecated.

    UPD: I finally found it! The article is dated year 2008 - exactly when WotLK was in play.
    http://wow.allakhazam.com/wiki/hit_table_%28wow%29
    That site seems really good.

    Anyways.. you can just walk in icc, put dodge gem in your gear, screenshot your dodge and parry chance, change gem for parry, screenshot again... compare results.

    There is a ratio when parry ratting becomes better than dodge ratting its about 8 (dodge ratting): 5 (parry ratting). But to have that much more dodge than parry on your gear is extremely rare.

  5. Hi,

    Is it true Prot Warrios are bad compared to other tanks in 3.3.5.a?

  6. Hi,

    Is it true Prot Warrios are bad compared to other tanks in 3.3.5.a?
    Prot wars can still do any wotlk content, other tanks just have a small edge over them. (community here often percieves this difference to be much bigger than it really is - thats something you need to prepare yourself for if you stick to playing here)

  7. I was curious about unset part, so made some comparison. Pillars of might slightly better, than hit head from ldw.
    https://imgur.com/a/MV9SwjQ

  8. I was curious about unset part, so made some comparison. Pillars of might slightly better, than hit head from ldw.
    https://imgur.com/a/MV9SwjQ
    Ehp wise yes. Unless you would take 2nd armor ring (onyx/toc 10hc). How did hit and expertise change?

  9. Nah, i think only avoidonce can be exchanged to armor. Exchange stamina to armor is bad choice. But i was building my gear in rawr with aim to get rid of hard obtainable items, that bring me to unexpected results. Hit legs from marro ^_^
    1) Most common bis with ldw ring and ldw head.
    2) Armor legs, that is i am usually aim to use. But was forced to use hit back from 25hc.
    3) Still trying to use armor legs, and switched ldw ring to Boe hit one (if u're tank ms it can be even rep one).
    4) Hit legs from marro 25hc, hit boe ring, unset parts full armor. almost 40k armor 87k hp (double stamina trinqet).
    5) Same comp, but unbuffed one. Still 35k armor with stama trinqs, still 51k hp unbuff.
    https://imgur.com/a/CkkrEd9
    With that last comp i reached most HP pool, pretty good armor pool (not differs alot from armor comp), almost all yellow and red sockets are activated with 10hit+15stm and 10exp+15stm gems (so i am taking extra stama from socket bonuses). And i lost only 0.5% avoidance compare to other comps.
    As advantage i don't need ldw HC (head is t10, ring is boe), i don't need RS boots - expertise still should be capped with icc ones, other unset parts are eof ones and 10hc ones, legs from marro hc - also ez.
    Yay. Result is good, at least for me. I will gear my warr much faster with that comp, thou

    Also i mentioned your arguing about dodge and parry in icc:
    As the guy told before icc debuff is addictive, as far as u got more than 20%, dodge stat doesn't loose any effectiveness anymore.
    And about dodge parry comparisson, they have differenet base stat cap: https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Mele...ishing_returns
    I builded graphs to compare it:
    https://imgur.com/a/dwWbk5T
    Dodge stat provides u more avoidance, than parry one. Cause parry diminishes faster.
    Edited: August 21, 2019

  10. @ only avoidance can be traded for armor, not stamina

    I disagree. Stamina and armor both do similar job when tanking physical dmg. It's about amounts. Loosing 50 stamina and getting 800 armor is very much worth it imho.

    @ Your set
    It accomplishes your goal of better obtainability and still performing great.

    @ tank bis
    As I write in the guide there is no bis per say, there is only bis for certain situation. For LK getting more armor is almost always better than anything. (Even double armor trinkets.) There are other bosses where different setups are better. Optimal approach is to have all the best pieces and swap them according to boss ahead of you.

    @dodge vs parry
    Yes, dodge is almost always better. But as you can see in your graph, there are situations where parry can be better. - If you are significantly further in dodge diminishing returns than parry diminishing returns. (F.e. if you already had 500 dodge and 0 parry, adding 20 parry would give you more avoidance %. Those situations are rare, but I ran into them a few times.)

  11. Dunno, 800 is pretty high number. But not sure if it worth it:
    https://imgur.com/a/kH64vTx
    I lost 2k hp, 1% avoidance, and armor will not help against magic, but there is some resist here.
    I don't think that double armor trinq is great for lk, soul reaper deals magic dmg, and u still should have enough HP pool to handle hit+parry haste hit+ soul reaper magic part at least once per each soul reaper to give your healers space. If i push hp to 80k it will be almost oneshot, and i can accidently die i think. Same as sindi trinq resist OP (soul reaper, spirits).

  12. Dunno, 800 is pretty high number. But not sure if it worth it:
    https://imgur.com/a/kH64vTx
    I lost 2k hp, 1% avoidance, and armor will not help against magic, but there is some resist here.
    I don't think that double armor trinq is great for lk, soul reaper deals magic dmg, and u still should have enough HP pool to handle hit+parry haste hit+ soul reaper magic part at least once per each soul reaper to give your healers space. If i push hp to 80k it will be almost oneshot, and i can accidently die i think. Same as sindi trinq resist OP (soul reaper, spirits).
    It seems that toc ring is generally better - resist on onyxia ring reduces magic dmg taken by about 3% on average.

    I would take one of those sets to lk (1st one is with max hp, better would be to swap key for satrinas scarab; 2nd is more armor focused; 3rd looses some hp, but has about 2.5% more avoidance - more risky, but least dmg taken):
    https://imgur.com/0TPi5Es
    https://imgur.com/5lEOYEP
    https://imgur.com/NpBvExR

    Soul Reaper dmg is not what kills tanks. 100% attack speed buff on LK that happens at the same time does. LK does not parry haste fortunately. Make sure to use defensive for every soul reaper.
    Edited: August 21, 2019

  13. 3% is pretty high number, i think i will use it.
    Your comps are not hit capped, same i didn't used grey socket slots i rawr (seems it is reserve for testing, cause there are no so many socket bonuses in real items).
    ALso rebuild your comp as much as i can with capped hit, and my hit legs comp has more hp pool +1k, but 400 armor less.
    And what haste buff are u talking about? I recheked it: https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Lich...tadel_tactics)
    There are no haste buffs for lich king, only for shamblings.
    Edited: August 22, 2019

  14. 3% is pretty high number, i think i will use it.
    Your comps are not hit capped, same i didn't used grey socket slots i rawr (seems it is reserve for testing, cause there are no so many socket bonuses in real items).
    ALso rebuild your comp as much as i can with capped hit, and my hit legs comp has more hp pool +1k, but 400 armor less.
    And what haste buff are u talking about? I recheked it: https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Lich...tadel_tactics)
    There are no haste buffs for lich king, only for shamblings.
    You could get away with even less hit due to taunt glyph and hit debuff by shadow priests/moonkins. If you need to be hit capped with my setup you can just swap to hit weapon (can be done in combat).

    Grey sockets are bonus from bs, whats the point of having prof while not using it?

    Read soul reaper description carefully:
    Abillity - Soul Reaper - Melee range:
    Strikes the target for 50% weapon damage and afflicts the target with Soul Reaper. This effect deals 50,000 Shadow damage after 5 sec and increases the caster's haste by 100% for 5 sec. Instant. Used on the tank. 60,000 on 25-player and 10-player heroic, 70,000 on 25-player heroic.

  15. I can't ignore melee hit cap, cause it is threat generation and proper pull. I mean taunt (that can also miss, even with sp boomie) resets threat and after boss hit u, u should generate threat from zero, when other classes have trinqet procs, cd and full burst. Pull with shield slam generates agro instead of reseting, and u need hit cap for that.
    Not all gray sockets are BS in rawr. For example https://wotlk-twinhead.twinstar.cz/?item=51901 : 1 inbuild socket, 1 socket from BS. And rawr shows 3 sockets there.
    My bad with soul reaper. Always thought that is warmane bug, that lk has parry haste. But it is just 100% haste buff.

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