1. May 5, 2018  
    Going off your screenshot and armory it looks like you were already pushing the highest limits of Attack Power with that 16.1k there. I can't think of many realistic ways to force your AP much further. Maybe by getting Tailoring as a prof, or using the Indestructible Pot a minute in advance, or by using the EoF relic?

    It's still somewhat perplexing that a DK undoubtedly less geared than you (and who wasn't even an Orc) somehow achieved the 16.4k AP needed to land a 30.1k melee swing. It makes me think there was another damage modifier at work. Maybe something unique to the fight. There isn't any mechanic that makes LDW take more damage is there? The fanatics cast damage buffs on themselves but only a mage can spell-steal those.

    Also, the thing about Sunder Armor you have to keep in mind is not just its down-time, but also its ramp-up time. It can take a while to get a full 5x stacks of it on the boss, especially if it's just 1 Warrior applying it.

    What % of your dmg was the DRW, out of curiosity.

  2. May 5, 2018  
    There is no world where a BiS blood dk can reach 19k static dps on Warmane right now. You're completely deluded.
    Out of curiosity are we still being completely deluded about bdks passing the 19k dps benchmark?

  3. May 5, 2018  
    impressive dps, i bet your raid was real happy with all those annoying whispers "totplis, hystplis" etc, also doing your part of Blood Beasts pie because "blood dps so gut".

    I understand one time to check it out, but if I have to carry this dude every week - it will break your team apart.

  4. May 5, 2018  
    I rewatched the youtube video...
    He was using Sigil of the Hanged, eof one.
    Also, not a single time during the fight was there even remotely close Melee and DS crot to those of 30k and 42k as at the start of the video.
    With that i can say that he eather had help of Tricks of the Trade, which would explain him beeing top on threat even tho 2 fury warriors did more burst, since Blood has 3/3 Subversion, or that there was shatering trow on the boss at that time.

    I wont deny that there is something wrong with physical dmg increase on Blood DK, especialy since i feel that overall melee dps on all classes is a bit lower than on retail.
    Even so, i will repeat myself one more time, nothing gamebreaking is wrong with BDKs (or any other melee dps).
    Its doing just fine, its simply gear dependant, and u need to look into a best itemisation combo to do max numbers.
    Noone actualy tested BDK in both raids and sims to say: "this is the exact BiS list" like they did with Frost and Unholy, so we might be gearing our BDKs wrong, hense lower dps.

    Overall, i doubt those 2 crits at the start (30k melee, 42k ds) wer nothing else than pure luck and awesome rng.

    Edit x1:

    https://imgur.com/a/Br5cAkI

    180 + 10% = 198 (Flask)
    480 + 10% = 528 (Ashen Ring)
    700 Strength (Taunka) =~ 1900 Attack Power (if im not wrong with calculations)

    Total of: ~15100 attack power.

    All of the items are Strength exept the gloves which are Aldrianas.
    Yellow gem slots in Strength items ONLY are filled with 10str+10hit/haste/crit.

    U could posibly push for 100-150 more attack power with EoF Plate Strength Gloves, but again, maximum amount of Attack Power u could reach with JC + BS would be 15500 tops, no more (and im beeing generous).

    Edit x2:

    https://imgur.com/a/IOxxIpa

    Dummy run with that itemisation.
    As u saw i had awesome luck with both DRW and Pestilence, still 8.5k end dps is not so bad...
    Constant DPS was going from 8.5 - 9k...

    I will log off without a single buff on me (will remove both Horn of Winter and Food buff) in case u want to inspect the armory for more info:
    https://armory.warmane.com/character...ecrown/summary
    All the extra gems in Wrist, Gloves and Belt are gemmed with 20 Armor Penetration.

    As for overall itemisation, i feel like atleast 5-10% haste is needed.
    Melee DMG is almost on par with HS when u take Necrosis and Blood Caked Blade into account, and haste is really nice for that, completely rotation independant dmg done.
    The only other stat u could get instead is Crit, which u should have enough alrdy...
    Edited: May 5, 2018

  5. May 5, 2018  
    What % of your dmg was the DRW, out of curiosity.

    Spoiler: Show



    DRW dealt 10.3% and was used twice during the fight.

    impressive dps, i bet your raid was real happy with all those annoying whispers "totplis, hystplis" etc, also doing your part of Blood Beasts pie because "blood dps so gut".

    I understand one time to check it out, but if I have to carry this dude every week - it will break your team apart.
    Spoiler: Show



    Did not receive any tot or hysteria aside my own.

    With that i can say that he eather had help of Tricks of the Trade, which would explain him beeing top on threat even tho 2 fury warriors did more burst, since Blood has 3/3 Subversion, or that there was shatering trow on the boss at that time.
    tot would of lowerd his potential damage by removing hysteria not increase it, Shattering throw is the most likely culprit.
    Edited: May 5, 2018

  6. May 5, 2018  
    HaixzElder can you confirm the date of that run? quite odd to get 28k average and 16k everage. but again it's only one run very hard to build any assumptions based on only 2 cases.
    May 2 2018

  7. May 6, 2018  
    That 30k melee swing is still all kinds of dodgy. Even factoring in Shattering Throw and assuming the boss had 0 Armour at that point of time, the DK would have still needed 16.4k+ Attack Power to land a swing like that.

    Either we're missing some kind of substantial damage modifier or Attack Power buff, or there was some kind of possible double-dipping bug relating to his cooldowns that got hotfixed. The issue could also be with the way one of his addons causes the damage to appear (maybe it merges the DRW's damage with his, or counts Necrosis/BCB into the auto attack's damage, etc).

  8. May 6, 2018  
    https://imgur.com/a/qaiSq1G

    https://imgur.com/a/fv2VBNR

    Did a ToGC 25m normal pug.

    On Jara, dmg done on Mistress was from HS cleave.
    On Anub, i was spending most of my time on adds, since noone else gave a damn...
    That beeing said, 18k Melee max crit and 28k DS max crit without Sunder Armor on the boss, is a quite good if u ask me.

    Gear i was using is Full Strength itemisation with TogC 25m Cloak and EoF Gloves (both Gloves and RS 25m hc Feet are Xmoged to match T10 set, thats why they look diferent in char screen).

  9. May 13, 2018  
    I was looking at the rotation section of this guide and i think its a bit missinformative.

    Also, Glyphs that you should be using are:
    Disease
    Death Strike
    Dancing Rune Weapon

    Not using Glyph of Disease will make u lose uptime on the Sigils 200 strength buff.
    On top of that, there is no other Glyph that will increase ur dps by a nice amount, since Death Coil DMG is crep.

    When it comes to the Ghoul DMG, its simply low.
    On a dummy, self buffed, it will do arround 20k...
    Sure its better than Death Coils DMG (since u need 1 gcd to cast both), but its not anything mind blowing, meaning u should not prio Rise Dead over HS or DS during proc uptime...
    So just use Rise Dead when u have free gcd instead of DC or save it for when u have to use Dark Pact.
    THE BEST time to pop ur Ghoul is by the end of DBW proc, right when u are about to lose Hysteria. If u got the Crit proc from DBW, u can always wait a bit more for STS to proc again, and than use Rise Dead.
    Army of the Dead shouldnt be used at all. The only way when u can use it is 11+sec before combat (or to activate Rune Grace Timer as i explained in my UDK guide openers > {DnD + Army of the Dead} - 8>9sec before the pull).

    When it comes to DPS and rotation...
    First thing to say is that, since 245 Sigil procs from every 2nd Death Strike, u should always try to do 1x DS and than spend 4x (2Blood/2Death) Runes on HS, 1x DS and spend 4x (2Blood/2Death) Runes HS/Pesti.

    This is the Rotation i found to be most usefull...

    Opener:
    IT > PS > DS > Hysteria > HS > Blood Tap followed with instant /cancelaura Blood Tap macro >
    HS > HS > Dancing Rune Weapon >
    DS > HS > HS > HS > HS >
    Pesti > HS > DS > HS > HS > DC > ...

    Opener on a new target:
    IT > PS > DS > HS > BT/cancelaura macro > HS > HS >
    (if u had Rune Grace Timer activated alrdy, u can skip BT/cancelaura, since sometimes it can delay that 1st Blood Rune and make some problems)

    Constant rotation should always be (diseases on the target):
    DS > HS > HS > HS > HS > DC* >
    Pesti > HS > DS > HS > HS > DC* >
    DS > HS > HS > HS > HS > DC* >
    Pesti > HS > DS > HS > HS > DC* > ...

    Use DC* whenever u have a free GCD in btwn HS and DS spam, and just Repeat...
    Dont forget to REFRESH HORN OF WINTER! (dont be that lazy bad DK that forgets this)

    U dont need to use ERW since everything is perfectly synced.
    The only way i find it usefull is in case u fk up something so u can fix the entire rotation, or next (2nd) time u use DRW combined Hysteria in same combat to maximise DMG of those 2 CDs...
    Something like:
    DRW > IT > PS > Hysteria > HS > HS > DS > ERW > DS > HS > HS > HS > HS > ...

    When it comes to using DRW in the midle of a fight, i use it after my DBW proc again.
    Its eather after i use: Pestilence > HS > DRW > DS > HS > HS >...
    Or before i do DS so i just go: DRW > IT > PS > HS > HS >...

    As for BiS gear, i think that the best stat gain comes from 5/5 T10, Toskz and TogC arp Cloak, and maybe Ashen Ring as Agility items, with the rest of items beeing standard Strength items.

    Something like this:
    [Sanctified Scourgelord Helmet]
    [Penumbra Pendant]
    [Sanctified Scourgelord Shoulderplates]
    [Vereesa's Dexterity]
    [Sanctified Scourgelord Battleplate]
    [Toskk's Maximized Wristguards]
    [Sanctified Scourgelord Gauntlets]
    [Coldwraith Links]
    [Sanctified Scourgelord Legplates]
    [Apocalypse's Advance]
    [Skeleton Lord's Circle]
    [Ashen Band of Endless Vengeance]/[Ashen Band of Endless Might]
    [Deathbringer's Will]
    [Sharpened Twilight Scale]
    [Shadowmourne]
    [Sigil of Virulence]

    For Orcs, i would use [Might of Blight] instead of [Skeleton Lord's Circle] and gem 1x 20 Expertise Cardinal to cap it @26.
    In case u have Engineering, just use Armor Penetration Food and u should be fine.
    Altho i have 3x Strength gems in Shadowmourne (so i can play both PvP and PvE), Unholy and Blood), which can be ArP, so i dont see any problem in capping it with any profesion if u want to Main Spec Blood.

    Im not sure about the gear tho, but it does work a bit better than the Haste setup atm.
    Il do some more dummy testing when i catch some free time.

    If some one finds a gear that will result in more Crit and Strength/Attack Power, please do let us know.



    Oh, i almost forgot, i finaly found where Blood DK is better than Unholy and Frost!
    For clearing Zul Gurub while farming Mounts and those Swords for xmog...
    Altho, Unholy in Frost Presence is nice aswell since u just let ur pets do the job, but il still give Blood upper hand here. :D
    Edited: May 13, 2018 Reason: updated

  10. May 13, 2018  
    Spoiler: Show
    I was looking at the rotation section of this guide and i think its a bit missinformative.

    First thing to say is that, since 245 sigil procs from every 2nd Death Strike, u should always try to do 1x DS and than spend 4x Blood/Death Runes.

    Glyphs that you should be using are:
    Disease
    Death Strike
    Dancing Rune Weapon

    When it comes to the Ghoul DMG, its simply low.
    Sure its better than Death Coils DMG (since u need 1 gcd to cast both), but its not anything mind blowing, meaning u should not prio Rise Dead over HS or DS during proc uptime...
    So just use Rise Dead when u have free gcd instead of DC or save it for when u have to use Dark Pact.
    Army of the Dead shouldnt be used at all. The only way when u can use it is 11+sec before combat (or to activate Rune Grace Timer as i explained in my UDK guide openers).

    When it comes to DPS and rotation...
    This is the rotation i found to be most usefull...

    Opener:

    IT > PS > DS > Hysteria > HS >
    Blood Tap followed with instant /cancelaura Blood Tap macro >
    HS > HS > Dancing Rune Weapon >
    DS > HS > HS > HS > HS >
    Pesti > HS > DS > HS > HS > DC > ...

    Constant rotation should always be:
    IT > PS > DS > HS > BT/cancelaura macro > HS > HS >

    DS > HS > HS > HS > HS >
    Pesti > HS > DS > HS > HS > DC* >
    DS > HS > HS > HS > HS >
    Pesti > HS > DS > HS > HS > DC* > ...

    Use DC whenever u have a free GCD in btwn HS and DS spam, and just Repeat...
    U dont need to use ERW since everything is perfectly synced.
    The only way i find it usefull is in case u fk up something so u can fix it, or next time u use DRW and Hyst combined in same combat to maximise DMG of those 2 CDs...

    When it comes to using DRW in the midle of a fight, i use it after my DBW proc again.
    Its eather after i use: Pestilence > HS > DRW > DS > ...
    Or before i do DS so i just go: DRW > IT > PS > ...

    As for BiS gear, i think that the best stat gain comes from 5/5 T10, Toskz and TogC arp Cloak as Agility items, with the rest of items beeing standard Strength items.

    Im not sure about the gear tho, but it does work a bit better than the Haste setup atm.
    Il do some more dummy testing when i catch some free time.



    Oh, i almost forgot, i finaly found where Blood DK is better than Unholy and Frost!
    For clearing Zul Gurub while farming Mounts and those Swords for xmog...
    Altho, Unholy in Frost Presence is nice aswell since u just let ur pets do the job, but il still give Blood upper hand here. :D


    Why do you even bother? Bdk is soooooooo bugged, stop being deluded and accept current state bdk.

    average 19kdps on a static fight like dbs with duration approx 2-2.5 min is unreachable for current state bdk
    There is no world where a BiS blood dk can reach 19k static dps on Warmane right now. You're completely deluded.

  11. May 13, 2018  
    Another Dummy run, with some minor gear adjustments...
    DBW procs: Crit > Taunka
    Burst: 11.2k
    Agility Items: TogC arp Cloak, Toskz, Agil Ashen Ring

    https://imgur.com/a/mGlgVvh

    Did couple of more dummy runs, and the end DPS was always btwn 8.5 > 9k, after 1.7 mil, or as in after 3 minutes (once Hysteria got ready i stopped every time).
    I would say that going Full on Strength and Crit only is the best way to do this Blood thingy.
    Altho, u need to have a perfect balance.
    Too much Strength will make Might of Mograine useless.
    Too much Agility and ur crits will hit like wet noodles...

    So far the best itemisation on a dummy is 5/5 T10 with those 3 agility items i linked above.
    Most of the times itemisation that wins on a dummy wins in raids aswell, and i doubt its going to be otherwise with Blood.

    [Sanctified Scourgelord Helmet]
    [Penumbra Pendant]
    [Sanctified Scourgelord Shoulderplates]
    [Vereesa's Dexterity]
    [Sanctified Scourgelord Battleplate]
    [Toskk's Maximized Wristguards]
    [Sanctified Scourgelord Gauntlets]
    [Coldwraith Links]
    [Sanctified Scourgelord Legplates]
    [Apocalypse's Advance]
    [Skeleton Lord's Circle]
    [Ashen Band of Endless Vengeance]
    [Deathbringer's Will]
    [Sharpened Twilight Scale]
    [Shadowmourne]
    [Sigil of Virulence]

    For Orcs, i would use [Might of Blight] instead of [Skeleton Lord's Circle] and gem 1x 20 Expertise Cardinal to cap it @26.
    In case u have Engineering, just use Armor Penetration Food and u should be fine.
    Altho i have 3x Strength gems in Shadowmourne (so i can play both PvP and PvE), Unholy and Blood), which can be ArP, so i dont see any problem in capping it with any profesion if u want to Main Spec Blood.

    With this i can say that u have almost every info needed to make ur Blood DK work.
    U have both Rotation and Itemisation that will maximise ur DPS from my pov.
    Use both of these things wisely and u will do good DPS.
    I doubt that with this kind of DPS on a dummy, u cant reach 19k on a 2min Fight in ICC.

    Remember 1 thing tho, Blood is still a meme spec, and completely useless for the Raid as a whole. :D

    Edit:
    One more (a bit lucky???), dummy run, before i hit the sheets...
    https://imgur.com/a/mFeXGwk

    http://armory.warmane.com/character/...ecrown/summary
    This is the armory if u want a closer look at Gems, Enchants and whatnot...
    All "Hidden" > BS Gloves and Wrist gems, and Belt Buckle gem are 20 Armor Penetration.
    This Armory will be Legit for the next 24 hours i guess, after that who knows what gear im going to use, and spec...
    Anything diferent from: https://imgur.com/a/66AIxX5
    Is NOT Blood DPS PvE itemisation.
    (that SS is gear stats only, without a single buff, no Horn of Winter, no Food, no Flask, only 10% AP aura which i cant turn off)

    P.S. All the dummy dps runs wer done with no other debuffs from other classes, part from my diseases.
    Edited: May 13, 2018

  12. May 14, 2018  
    I was looking at the rotation section of this guide and i think its a bit missinformative.
    IT > PS > DS > Hysteria > HS > Blood Tap followed with instant /cancelaura Blood Tap macro >
    HS > HS > Dancing Rune Weapon >
    DS > HS > HS > HS > HS >
    Pesti > HS > DS > HS > HS > DC > ...

    Not going to cover everything since most is already covered already. you repeated many things but with better detail, ie the army. it's common sense that the army is pre casted. appreciated nonetheless.


    Going to address the rotation,I highly discourage you from using BT for the extra HS. it's not worth it. the damage you will gain per mint is subpar compared to the utility it provides. and still inferior to using it after DRW for the HT and more importantly for when you don't always make the very tight 2nd DS/pest.

    I understand you're also using it instead of HoW to hit the 60RP. which is still better when we HoW since you're using it @ a free gcd and summoning your ghoul as well and save your BT. it's for sure viable though, really great input.

    Aside that, the rest of the rotation is spot on. it's exactly how it is, but as always blood rot is very tight. tighter than frost. which is why it's always to think of it as a priority and not a rotation. when I was using blood with phone data. your pest will constantly keep going 1rune ahead every rotation or 2 just from the latency. As long as you convert you runes to death runes via DS and HS and just pest @ 1<second. hence the priority. the only thing that takes a bit of time to get used to is pestilence. refreshing it at 1< seconds is what will set your HS. from mediocre bdks. like the some of the bdks who had melee as their top damage in the few last pages in this very same thread.

    HS should always be your #1 Damage.

    @Raziel
    just lol, you single handedly made them go MIA.
    Edited: May 14, 2018

  13. May 14, 2018  
    There is no downside on using BT on start at all.
    U always have ERW if u want to "maximise" DMG of DRW and Hysteria...
    The reason i didnt tell them to use ERW is cos it comes with a cost, sure u will have huge burst, but it will make u do 2 extra GCDs that u ussualy spend on Frost Strikes and Death Coils as Fdk/Udk, since it delays Rune Grace Timer if Runes dont finish one full cycle before u ERW.
    So, if u want to use ERW as Blood, do it after every rune finishes its CD once u used it for the first time.

    Blood has 1 great thing other specs dont (mindblowing), and that is no need to use ERW to set up for a huge burst (the main reason why u should take advantage of this is simply cos ur Dearh Coil deals no dmg as Blood, while both Udk DC and Fdk FS are doing nice amounts so those extra GCDs are worth, especialy for Unholy).
    On top of it all, the sooner u pop Hysteria the more DMG it will do since all procs stacked makes some HUGE crits.
    That is why: Hysteria > HS > BT/cancelaura > HS > HS > DRW > ...
    is a perfect start.
    U build enough Runic Power for DRW without losing a sec on those procs...
    One can say that u lose a GCD and time on Hysteria if u do it there before DRW, but u will have to DC eventualy while Hyst is up on u so that logic is bad.
    As for the Ghoul, i find it best to be used while STS procs 2nd time, while u have Sigil proc up, Fallen Enchant, and as many Soul Fragments as posible.

    Also, when it comes to BT, u can always use it the same way as in opener during combat to fill that free GCD gap.
    This however is not that simple in practice since for some reason, sometimes RGP timer works fine, sometimes it completely resets the 1st Blood Rune, which is bad.
    As for BTs utility, i really dont see how can u use that Spell in combat that will help u in any matter as Blood DPS.

    As for the rotation beeing tight, i wouldnt say its harder than Frosts.
    Blood is simple. Spend runes, and do a casual DC when u have nothing else to do... Pestilence always comes on same Blood/Death Rune, just like as it comes on Frost DKs.
    Frost has a potential and it wants to push the maximum limits of RGP timer to maximise DPS, and it only has 2 Blood Runes that it can use for Pestilence, while Blood can simply use 1 rune before if the player notices he fked up, and continue with the rotation, while if u **** up as frost u get punished severely.
    Edited: May 14, 2018

  14. May 14, 2018  
    @Raziel
    just lol, you single handedly made them go MIA.
    I think the shame of being clueless is what made them go MIA.

  15. May 14, 2018  
    (T) IT > PS > HS > HS > DS > H+G+DRW >-----( DS > HS > HS > HS > pest > HS > HS > HS > HS > DS) >221ms<

    (G) IT > PS > DS+H > HS > (BT)HS > HS > DRW >-----( DS > HS > HS > HS > HS >Pesti > HS > DS)" > HS) > HS >221ms<

    I've lost the last HS constantly, the 2nd last HS also most of the time. I might have gotten once not sure. losing on 2x HS while DRW is up is a clear DPS loss. if you can confirm you can obtain the last 2xHS so that I may try again as am really exhausted atm.

    when fully buffed with procs and all, ghoul does about 40k-46k. easily more than 2xHS. AvG HS is 18k based on my logs


    ERW is best used when you really need snip damage on a target, best example I can give is oozes @ PP. Valk about to drop someone ..etc and boss dying and you wanna push that last damge. highest damage gain you can is always when boss dying and you know you will not need to refresh disease. that always almost used to up me 1dps spot or secure your number #1 whore spot XD even more so with DRW. aside that yes I concur with your PoV on DRW being a failsafe for a ****up.

    Also concerning Pest @ the same rune always, mostly vs dummy. it will go 1rune ahead in many cases. those 0.1delays add up fast.


    Never said hard, said tight. no dk spec is hard. all of them are easy as most classes in the game.
    Edited: May 14, 2018

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